RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower

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Marini -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 2:38:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I really hate manufacturers that put shite on the market that hasnt been properly tested, letting their customers discover the possibly dangerous or deadly flaws etc on their own rather than the manufacturer doing it.. or who deliberately sell shite that they already know is dangerous cuz they will still make more money than they will have to pay out for injuries or deaths.. I fucking hate that.. eta- I wonder if that death trap cladding is sold here in the US & if so, what kind of buildings its on.. Apparently, the shit that was used for cladding costs a fiver a panel less than something similar but non-flammable: that's what human life is worth to the shitehawks who've been looking sad for the cameras while trying to evade responsibility for the fruits of their corner cutting and greed, a fiver. Five fucking pounds. (The cladding, incidentally was the least of it in this case: no sprinklers, one staircase, all manner of stuff that shouldn't have got past whoever skimped on the renovation. And don't even get me started on how incompetent, fuckawful and generally half baked Chelsea and Kensington's borough council's attempt to accommodate and feed the survivors who've been left homeless has been thus far. That's the stuff that they're supposed to be there to deal with, instead of expecting charities to do their job for them.) And yes, that crap is on buildings in the 'States as well as Australia and Dubai. This sort of tragedy is one of the reasons many people hate greedy soulless corporate bastards/AND the government agencies that are "supposed" to regulate housing and safety codes, maintain standards and safety, INSPECT and PROTECT---but fall short. BOTH the greedy soulless corporate bastards and the worthless government POS agencies, that are "supposed" to regulate buildings, enforce housing codes, and protect the public safety, are to blame. Many people seem blind to how worthless and ineffective and inefficient many government agencies ARE. Do you REALLY trust the government when it comes to building safety, safety and code regulations, adequate emergency evacuations, clean air, clean and safe water, and protecting our food supply? REALLY? One of the reasons I despise most of our current Democratic leaders is they are in bed with corporate America in the States. Most Democratic leaders have sold their souls and are OWNED by soulless greedy corporate bastards. Who the hell is protecting the citizens from soulless corporations? In reality---usually---no one. As a child born during the 60's. I grew up hearing, Never trust the "man", and that sure as hell includes the government. RIP to the victims of the Grenfell fire. Both parties are shite, the Rs are just as bad and in the same bed with the big corps & 1%ers.. there is no difference and didnt Trump promise big business he would slash regulations & he is gutting the agencies that are supposed to hold soulless corps accountable???? why are you ranting about the Democrats when the Republican party is the very same? actually they are worse cuz they now are undoing many of the protections (such as they are) that are in place.. There is no party or federal politician looking out for you & there hasnt been for quite a while.. If you want a govt that looks out for you more than sleazy corps then you have to move to one of those "socialist" countries.. I am actually going to respond to this, I am not sure why. I am a former lifelong Democrat, who has been unhappy with the Democrats since Bill Clinton. In my world, most people have always understood what the Republican party "stood" for. Since, I will never be a Republican, I am speaking about disappointment on the Democratic side. In the States, on many issues they are interchangeable these days. We basically have close to a one party situation. That's why most of this mindless bickering on these message boards doesn't mean that much. Everyday we are moving closer to a One Party State, pretending to be 2 parties. BOTH Democrats and Republicans are in bed with the greedy, soulless corporate bastards, and owned by Wall Street.

tj444 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 3:05:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I really hate manufacturers that put shite on the market that hasnt been properly tested, letting their customers discover the possibly dangerous or deadly flaws etc on their own rather than the manufacturer doing it.. or who deliberately sell shite that they already know is dangerous cuz they will still make more money than they will have to pay out for injuries or deaths.. I fucking hate that.. eta- I wonder if that death trap cladding is sold here in the US & if so, what kind of buildings its on.. Apparently, the shit that was used for cladding costs a fiver a panel less than something similar but non-flammable: that's what human life is worth to the shitehawks who've been looking sad for the cameras while trying to evade responsibility for the fruits of their corner cutting and greed, a fiver. Five fucking pounds. (The cladding, incidentally was the least of it in this case: no sprinklers, one staircase, all manner of stuff that shouldn't have got past whoever skimped on the renovation. And don't even get me started on how incompetent, fuckawful and generally half baked Chelsea and Kensington's borough council's attempt to accommodate and feed the survivors who've been left homeless has been thus far. That's the stuff that they're supposed to be there to deal with, instead of expecting charities to do their job for them.) And yes, that crap is on buildings in the 'States as well as Australia and Dubai. This sort of tragedy is one of the reasons many people hate greedy soulless corporate bastards/AND the government agencies that are "supposed" to regulate housing and safety codes, maintain standards and safety, INSPECT and PROTECT---but fall short. BOTH the greedy soulless corporate bastards and the worthless government POS agencies, that are "supposed" to regulate buildings, enforce housing codes, and protect the public safety, are to blame. Many people seem blind to how worthless and ineffective and inefficient many government agencies ARE. Do you REALLY trust the government when it comes to building safety, safety and code regulations, adequate emergency evacuations, clean air, clean and safe water, and protecting our food supply? REALLY? One of the reasons I despise most of our current Democratic leaders is they are in bed with corporate America in the States. Most Democratic leaders have sold their souls and are OWNED by soulless greedy corporate bastards. Who the hell is protecting the citizens from soulless corporations? In reality---usually---no one. As a child born during the 60's. I grew up hearing, Never trust the "man", and that sure as hell includes the government. RIP to the victims of the Grenfell fire. Both parties are shite, the Rs are just as bad and in the same bed with the big corps & 1%ers.. there is no difference and didnt Trump promise big business he would slash regulations & he is gutting the agencies that are supposed to hold soulless corps accountable???? why are you ranting about the Democrats when the Republican party is the very same? actually they are worse cuz they now are undoing many of the protections (such as they are) that are in place.. There is no party or federal politician looking out for you & there hasnt been for quite a while.. If you want a govt that looks out for you more than sleazy corps then you have to move to one of those "socialist" countries.. I am actually going to respond to this, I am not sure why. I am a former lifelong Democrat, who has been unhappy with the Democrats since Bill Clinton. In my world, most people have always understood what the Republican party "stood" for. Since, I will never be a Republican, I am speaking about disappointment on the Democratic side. In the States, on many issues they are interchangeable these days. We basically have close to a one party situation. That's why most of this mindless bickering on these message boards doesn't mean that much. Everyday we are moving closer to a One Party State, pretending to be 2 parties. BOTH Democrats and Republicans are in bed with the greedy, soulless corporate bastards, and owned by Wall Street. ok that makes more sense now.. sorry, I didnt realize that you were just venting.. the bickering doesnt mean anything to me either, since I think both parties are shite.. its not worth posting on threads that go that way, which seems to be almost all of them..

Marini -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 3:13:08 PM)
We agree! I think I harbor more disgust for the Democrats, because I USED to expect more from them. I never expected anything from the other side. I hope that makes sense. You can only be disappointed when you have hope or expectations. Most people remain loyal to the Democrats, no matter what they do or don't do. I hope I live long enough to see a REAL viable and winnable 3rd party. As you so eloquently stated, but sides are shite.

Wayward5oul -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 3:57:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 , since I think both parties are shite.. its not worth posting on threads that go that way, which seems to be almost all of them.. my sentiments exactly

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 4:09:44 PM)
throws up in his lap so many fuk all mutts to chose from

Marini -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 4:10:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle What a horrifying disaster. The vision of the entire block in flames was harrowing. My thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones or whose loved ones are still unaccounted for. I have seen some reports that the residents have been complaining to the council for at least 7 months that their building was a fire trap. It appears that the council failed to act on these complaints. However it's early days yet and it might be prudent to withhold judgement until all the facts emerge. I read many residents had complained for years, about safety issues in Grenfell. Have you ever tried getting something from a government agency? Shame on Labour and the Tories. Shame shame shame

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 4:17:51 PM)
bites is tongue

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 4:39:46 PM)
oh dear

longwayhome -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 10:49:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown Huh, So yer telling me that Wrapping the outside of my building in a petroleum product conveniently packaged in it's own aluminium heat shoot, Waffling on whether or not to upgrade my buildings outdated and dysfunctional indoor fire sprinklers and not providing my tenets with any procedural escape plan in case of an emergency is a bad idea..... Holy fuck....are heads gonna roll or what..... How much you wanna bet some one is going to jail for this. I'm totally baffled, you know in about every country in the world you would have angry people demanding that heads are going to roll, here some people go "Oh let's wait, it's a tragedy, we must not be disrespectful" pretty much what the NRA does after every mass shooting, here they put an MP in charge of finding out what happened who voted against making rented properties fit for human habitation, the former housing minister is now the chief of staff of the joke who is our PM. The problem is that it's not just THAT council block, there are about 700 of those blocks in London, a woman said they are like pigeon holes, people are stuffed in, the conditions are horrible, a lot of them are death traps in case of fire. The company who actually did the cladding has a very shoddy record, went bankrupt and the owner bought back his company for next to nothing and continued under another name, yesterday they destroyed all their files regarding the tower block... A couple of years ago it was a civilised country, a bit behind the times but you could see it as quaint, now it has turned into a banana republic but without bananas, corruption, poverty, xenophobia... You should see some of the comments, because a lot of the people living in the tower block were black or Asian, people automatically assume they are Muslims, hate groups like Britain First make horrendous comments, some conservative cheered actually about the fact that a mother lost 2 children and said she has more and she will just get some more from different fathers (he simply assumed) so why does she cry... It's disgusting. This is one of those moments where people have to work out what kind of country they want to live in. Kensington is a local authority with the highest property prices in the UK that is failing to house its own residents and has one of the highest levels of homelessness in London, which allowed ghettos to develop on the basis of the fact that people were immigrants and refugees, and thus deserved less than other people. Even that would have been despicable but many of the residents of that tower spoke impeccable English with local accents so were not immigrants at all. Many were gainfully employed, highly educated, artists and parents, trying to do the best they could for their families and themselves, yet they were undesirable and disregarded. Turns out the only crime these people had committed was to be less rich and less white than the rest of Kensington, a crime they paid for ultimately with their lives. The tangled web of responsibility will no doubt include inadequate regulations, problems with how the cladding was chosen and installed to the building, miscalculations about maintaining the integrity of fire compartments and other technical issues. Fires in tower blocks are no less frequent than in other homes and have been successfully contained many times so this wasn't bad luck. It was at best error and at worst negligence. The one thing you can be sure of is that no corners would have been cut if these people had been rich and influential. This fire is what it means to be a second class citizen in Kensington. Having been so impressed by the "no surrender" community level responses to terrorism, I am now deeply ashamed that this could have been allowed to happen in my country. So what kind of country do we want? An intolerant, snarling blame-culture, where we scapegoat the least fortunate as immigrants, refugees, lazy, benefit cheats, criminals and drug takers, so that we can hold them responsible for all our problems. Or the kind of place where we take our responsibilities to our fellow human beings seriously to give them the best opportunities and life chances we can. Starting with housing that doesn't kill them.

tweakabelle -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/18/2017 12:28:50 AM)
It is revealing to compare the tenor of this thread to others on tragedies in other parts of the world. Noteworthy are the empathy radiating from almost every post, the thoughtful and constructive tone of most posts, the absences of rancour, of abuse, of name calling, and the near invisibility of trolls and trolling. The positives shine through despite the depressing nature of the topic under discussion. Well done everybody. This thread could act as a template on how to conduct a civilised discussion against the backdrop of a hideous and it seems entirely avoidable tragedy.

Marini -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/18/2017 9:09:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It is revealing to compare the tenor of this thread to others on tragedies in other parts of the world. Noteworthy are the empathy radiating from almost every post, the thoughtful and constructive tone of most posts, the absences of rancour, of abuse, of name calling, and the near invisibility of trolls and trolling. The positives shine through despite the depressing nature of the topic under discussion. Well done everybody. This thread could act as a template on how to conduct a civilised discussion against the backdrop of a hideous and it seems entirely avoidable tragedy. [sm=agree.gif] We should all want to create policies and enforce safety standards, that make the world a better place for all humans and all living creatures, regardless of politics.

WhoreMods -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/18/2017 10:56:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It is revealing to compare the tenor of this thread to others on tragedies in other parts of the world. Noteworthy are the empathy radiating from almost every post, the thoughtful and constructive tone of most posts, the absences of rancour, of abuse, of name calling, and the near invisibility of trolls and trolling. The positives shine through despite the depressing nature of the topic under discussion. Well done everybody. This thread could act as a template on how to conduct a civilised discussion against the backdrop of a hideous and it seems entirely avoidable tragedy. [sm=agree.gif] We should all want to create policies and enforce safety standards, that make the world a better place for all humans and all living creatures, regardless of politics. We should also stop buying Metallica records. That won't be happening either.

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/18/2017 11:13:24 AM)
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters [Official Music Video]

WhoreMods -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/18/2017 11:38:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire Metallica - Nothing Else Matters [Official Music Video] Last time they were any good: they've spent the quarter century since churning out mind numbing shite.

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/18/2017 1:55:42 PM)
I never liked that thrash malarkey - well you know my taste by now - That is the only song of theirs I kinda like Nightwish - Song of Myself LIVE I have too many hot water bottle burns to mention Then there was that one time I had to go too hospital for bitumen burns 150c ish on one singular hand - that hurt. Then a lab I worked in we did something to something at 800c - the power in that - the ferocity even from a 2 kg sample just taken out of that oven. It was scary.

BamaD -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/18/2017 1:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle What a horrifying disaster. The vision of the entire block in flames was harrowing. My thoughts are with those who have lost loved ones or whose loved ones are still unaccounted for. I have seen some reports that the residents have been complaining to the council for at least 7 months that their building was a fire trap. It appears that the council failed to act on these complaints. However it's early days yet and it might be prudent to withhold judgement until all the facts emerge. I read many residents had complained for years, about safety issues in Grenfell. Have you ever tried getting something from a government agency? Shame on Labour and the Tories. Shame shame shame Finally someone noticed that the Dems nor the Repubs are responsible for this, that's right it isn't Obama's or Bush's fault. I will note that the building didn't even meet safty standards there, and most assuredly wouldn't meet them here.

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/19/2017 6:21:14 AM)
Grenfell Tower fire: Seventy-nine people feared dead Seventy-nine people are either dead or missing presumed dead after the fire at Grenfell Tower, police have said. Met Police Commander Stuart Cundy confirmed the figure in a statement on Monday, adding it may still change. Thats the latest and for perspective less than 300 people died in fires in the UK (population 65 million) last year.

Greta75 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/19/2017 11:48:48 PM)
Basically the real issue is. These are government subsidized housing. Fundings are limited. So to provide these subsidies. Good housing materials are cut back. The question is, how much should government spend on subsidized housing? And should they bother at all, IF they don't bother about expensive materials like fire safety materials? It all boils back to, these people cannot afford a normal home and are getting something of inferior quality because they get what they paid for. Now if this was a normal housing. The developer seriously needs to be sued! Now knowing it's government subsidized. That is a grey area. The government could simply decide not to subsidize any homes at all, then all these people may be homeless. It's so reliant on state funding. The interesting thing is, in my country 70% people, including myself live in subsidized housing, the reason is, one of the main goal of our government when it was formed is to make sure everybody had their own homes to live in that they owned, and not rented. So like our government hospital, the subsidised housing are all very good quality. Like fire always get confined to just one unit. Fire happens often, because we have alot of people careless with fire at home. In the UK though, subsided housing seem to only be limited to poor people. For us, because land is scarce. I remember growing up, my neighbours had Ferraris and personal chaffeur and they lived in subsidise housing like me. They own many private homes too, like 40 mil each type of homes, but they like the subsidise housing so much, they rent out their expensive homes and live in subsidise housing. That's how good the quality was that basically, the government by making sure subsidized housing quality is as good as private developers, so that, it's not just for the poor. Once it's not just for the poor, they gotta maintain a certain quality and standard to be able to sell them out to people. My subsidise housing was a double storey apartment. Pretty big and I got to say, it was nice. I used to jump from second floor where the rooms are located to the living room sofa as a kid. Also during my parents time, this was so cheap to a ridiculous extent. Like 100k only. These days, you can't buy anything for less than 300k, and for the same place I grew up in, would be close to 800k now. And yes, that's the subsidized price, as land is expensive here. When shit like this happen in other first world country. It just makes me grateful to live where I live. Our worst scandal is only the PM and his siblings squabbling publicly about mowing down their father's house ha! PM wants to preserve the house for historical value. Siblings wants the house torn down! And the ownership of that house is split 3 ways equally. Complicate stuffs.

tj444 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/20/2017 6:10:11 PM)
~~ fast reply ~~ Panorama just did a show on the tower fire.. apparently people in the UK can watch it online, for those that dont live in the UK.. it can be found as a torrent on certain websites... the show answers some of the questions of how it started (fridge started on fire & firefighters did actually put it out) and why there were no fire alarms & sprinklers (concrete construction would limit the fire to the unit) and why it spread so fast (the fucking flamable cladding turned a previously safe building into a death trap).. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08x1tss/panorama-london-tower-fire-britains-shame Panorama- London Tower Fire-Britain's Shame

Greta75 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/20/2017 7:39:24 PM)
So I read more about council housing today, and the FACT IS, it is FOC housing GUYS! This building is FREE ALL EXPENSE PAID by the government. So what i want to ask is, IF the residents are living in there for FREE. Who should pay for the fire retardant materials precisely? They get what they pay for. Which is NOTHING! And the people who majority occupy it are Muslim immigrants. So not only do they take in their refugees, they get FREE HOUSING! I'm sorry, if I am getting anything free. I don't expect quality. If I paid alot of money for it, that's another story. But the fact that this building is FREE for those who live in it. It's no wonder they get last priority on quality. Everything make sense now. I mean, we get public housing, but hell, people still pay at least 300k or more for it. It cost something. This one is totally FREE! It boggles my mind that people are complaining if it's free. I guess I don't understand welfare and free housing because, I hate the fact that people who may be slogging their ass off holding 3 to 5 jobs to pay their own way, are paying for free housing for these people who are bumming around.

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