RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower

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LadyConstanze -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/16/2017 2:56:15 AM)
“I’m very concerned as to why Mrs May came out so quickly to say public inquiry. What is there that she knows that needs to be hidden”, Residents should, “really be demanding an INQUEST from the Government” Sophie Khan, solicitor for the victims of the Lakanal House tower block fire in Camberwell in 2009, says that a public inquiry is NOT the right way to pursue an investigation into the events surrounding the Grenfell Tower fire. “The right way is INQUESTS. The families have a right to participate ……… the Coroner is independent of the Government. In a public inquiry it is very much Government led, Government controlled, Government outcome”. When asked, “Do you think it’s an absolutely worked out position that if the Government goes for a public inquiry and NOT an inquest, they will be not subject to the same scrutiny?” Ms Khan said, “YES, that is correct,; because in an inquest they (the Government) lose control ” _____ Yes, I am not convinced at all that this won't be swept under the carpet

ladiesmanservant -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/16/2017 3:30:30 AM)
They have not yet even got around to arresting those criminally and morally corrupt Police Chiefs and others responsible for Hillsborough in Sheffield Englandshire and they are proven guilty by the weight of evidence. So you are right a public inquiry is a government sponsored whitewash. She went there but never spoke with any of the locals or residents. Jeremy Corbyn did and so did the London Mayor, A Muslim called Sadiq Khan. The Tories are indeed the Nasty Party but so to was the Blairite led Labour Party. I notice the local member of Parliament for the constituency has not made any appearance. Yet another Tory. I note Elderly Queen of the United Kingdom shire as yet to visit are any of her family. The Muslim who's refrigetrator blew up and who raised the alarm will not doubt get the blame and he will be called a Jihadi Terrorist. Shami Chakrabati (Chocky butty) the former General Secretary of the UKs Liberty civil rights who got herself a peerage in the house of lord farts as not even said anything. The establishment always covers up for itself. At last the Member of Parliament shows up and she is Labour not Conservative. "Kensington’s new MP said she felt “absolutely distraught” as she arrived at Grenfell Tower today. Emma Dent Coad was on the phone to the Evening Standard when she first caught sight of the burning tower and gasped in shock. She said: “I’m absolutely distraught. People are very, very frightened here. The building looks like a wreck. “We don’t know what’s happened but I am going to find out. Everyone is very scared.” The MP for Kensington took her seat on Friday after beating Conservative Victoria Borwick by just 20 votes. "She added: “We have been hearing how terrible it was when the fire started.” Neighbouring MP Andy Slaughter, who represents the Hammersmith constituency, said he had major concerns about high rise flat fires following a blaze at Shepherds Court tower block last summer. There were no fatalities in the fire which ripped through five floors. Residents were treated for smoke inhalation.@

LadyConstanze -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/16/2017 5:55:54 AM)
https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/16/express-tried-blame-grenfell-fire-eu-but-theres-problem/

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/16/2017 4:26:28 PM)
Looks like the death toll will be round about 70 although the official figures are BBC understands around 70 people could be missing - it is likely they include the 30 PM was heckled on todays visit - can you blame them one iota: her first visit she only met with firefighters WTF hapless and incompetent and pretty disgusting Theresa May heckled by angry crowds London fire: Protests grow as fire anger increases London fire: Trauma counselling for Grenfell Tower crews London fire: Six questions for the investigation

PeonForHer -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/16/2017 4:53:31 PM)
It wasn't an office block - they won't have any list of who was in the building. They won't be able to identify a lot of the bodies. It must be horrible for friends and relatives of people who have been out of contact since the fire started and who might or might not have been in the building at the time. Just doesn't bear thinking about.

Phoenixpower -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 5:52:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: Well its a tower in a lower class ghetto of mostly Muslim immigrants who do not want to learn English or intergrate with a few exceptions. And you base this on exactly what? The eloquent answers most of them gave in interviews? It is a social housing project, anywhere in the world you will not find very wealthy people in there. Quite a few seem to be Brits for several generations. I am amazed by your mental powers and how you could deduct the religion of the people, where they are from, how long they have been in the UK and their willingness to integrate. Much prejudice? Thank you LadyConstanze!!! Well said... To name it as a ghetto when there a two bedroom flat cost 2000 pound rent a month, I'd hardly name a ghetto either...and I'm sure you would be surprised (and complain like a toddler with a temper tantrum) how much work wouldn't get done without "those muslims"...and these hard working people from the working class sector... the midwife at the birth of my UM is a muslim and she was much nicer, loving and kinder than some of her other colleagues which I met up to the birth of my UM.

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 7:46:35 AM)
Yes £2000 a month - but a lot that cash would come from the tax payer to the usual "landlords", probably Peon its at 58 missing presumed (including the 30) now. IMO it could top a hundred...I take it you were thinking that too. They will have no idea who some in there were, as you said.

PeonForHer -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 10:01:34 AM)
quote: Peon its at 58 missing presumed (including the 30) now. IMO it could top a hundred...I take it you were thinking that too. They will have no idea who some in there were, as you said. The fire brigade haven't got to the top floors yet - the building's too unsafe to risk it. I'd be really surprised if they don't find more corpses. What a hideous job ....

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 11:24:40 AM)
I know I wonder why this story is seared into my mind. Many stories bother me but almost none like this, ever? I dont know anyone from London either, I have only passed through the city once in my whole life....I rarely get this bothered. But I am bothered, deeply troubled even.

tj444 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 12:22:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire I know I wonder why this story is seared into my mind. Many stories bother me but almost none like this, ever? I dont know anyone from London either, I have only passed through the city once in my whole life....I rarely get this bothered. But I am bothered, deeply troubled even. I can tell you why it bothers me.. and much more than the images of 9/11 & the burning towers.. this was a building fully engulfed in flames for hours like a bonfire, you could see people inside as the smoke surrounded them, waving to people below, some people jumping to their death to escape the smoke & flames, the baby being dropped and amazingly caught and saved, some that stayed talked on the phone to relatives/friends saying goodbye fully knowing they were going to die.. the whole total fuck-up of it from fucked-up advice to "stay put" to only 1 stairwell for escape for the entire building to no fire alarms & sprinklers to flamable cladding to rich people complaining that the building was too ugly for them, the fact that money was more important than possibly as many as 100 or more peoples/kids lives, the fact that the residents complained about lack of safety for years before only to be rebuffed repeatedly & told they were being "too fussy".. unlike 9/11, THIS WAS TOTALLY PREVENTABLE!!!! and to add to that, the hundreds (700?) other council buildings/towers that have the same lack of safety & some/many? have that same fucking death-trap cladding.. You look at the building today and tho the fire is out, you can see thru the gaping holes (that used to be windows) into the charred & burned out interiors and know that many of the residents in those units died there, especially on the most upper floors.. I really hate manufacturers that put shite on the market that hasnt been properly tested, letting their customers discover the possibly dangerous or deadly flaws etc on their own rather than the manufacturer doing it.. or who deliberately sell shite that they already know is dangerous cuz they will still make more money than they will have to pay out for injuries or deaths.. I fucking hate that.. eta- I wonder if that death trap cladding is sold here in the US & if so, what kind of buildings its on..

WhoreMods -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 1:07:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I really hate manufacturers that put shite on the market that hasnt been properly tested, letting their customers discover the possibly dangerous or deadly flaws etc on their own rather than the manufacturer doing it.. or who deliberately sell shite that they already know is dangerous cuz they will still make more money than they will have to pay out for injuries or deaths.. I fucking hate that.. eta- I wonder if that death trap cladding is sold here in the US & if so, what kind of buildings its on.. Apparently, the shit that was used for cladding costs a fiver a panel less than something similar but non-flammable: that's what human life is worth to the shitehawks who've been looking sad for the cameras while trying to evade responsibility for the fruits of their corner cutting and greed, a fiver. Five fucking pounds. (The cladding, incidentally was the least of it in this case: no sprinklers, one staircase, all manner of stuff that shouldn't have got past whoever skimped on the renovation. And don't even get me started on how incompetent, fuckawful and generally half baked Chelsea and Kensington's borough council's attempt to accommodate and feed the survivors who've been left homeless has been thus far. That's the stuff that they're supposed to be there to deal with, instead of expecting charities to do their job for them.) And yes, that crap is on buildings in the 'States as well as Australia and Dubai.

Marini -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 1:14:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I really hate manufacturers that put shite on the market that hasnt been properly tested, letting their customers discover the possibly dangerous or deadly flaws etc on their own rather than the manufacturer doing it.. or who deliberately sell shite that they already know is dangerous cuz they will still make more money than they will have to pay out for injuries or deaths.. I fucking hate that.. eta- I wonder if that death trap cladding is sold here in the US & if so, what kind of buildings its on.. Apparently, the shit that was used for cladding costs a fiver a panel less than something similar but non-flammable: that's what human life is worth to the shitehawks who've been looking sad for the cameras while trying to evade responsibility for the fruits of their corner cutting and greed, a fiver. Five fucking pounds. (The cladding, incidentally was the least of it in this case: no sprinklers, one staircase, all manner of stuff that shouldn't have got past whoever skimped on the renovation. And don't even get me started on how incompetent, fuckawful and generally half baked Chelsea and Kensington's borough council's attempt to accommodate and feed the survivors who've been left homeless has been thus far. That's the stuff that they're supposed to be there to deal with, instead of expecting charities to do their job for them.) And yes, that crap is on buildings in the 'States as well as Australia and Dubai. This sort of tragedy is one of the reasons many people hate greedy soulless corporate bastards/AND the government agencies that are "supposed" to regulate housing and safety codes, maintain standards and safety, INSPECT and PROTECT---but fall short. BOTH the greedy soulless corporate bastards and the worthless government POS agencies, that are "supposed" to regulate buildings, enforce housing codes, and protect the public safety, are to blame. Many people seem blind to how worthless and ineffective and inefficient many government agencies ARE. Do you REALLY trust the government when it comes to building safety, safety and code regulations, adequate emergency evacuations, clean air, clean and safe water, and protecting our food supply? REALLY? One of the reasons I despise most of our current Democratic leaders is they are in bed with corporate America in the States. Most Democratic leaders have sold their souls and are OWNED by soulless greedy corporate bastards. Who the hell is protecting the citizens from soulless corporations? In reality---usually---no one. As a child born during the 60's. I grew up hearing, Never trust the "man", and that sure as hell includes the government. RIP to the victims of the Grenfell fire.

PeonForHer -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 1:52:20 PM)
quote: (The cladding, incidentally was the least of it in this case: no sprinklers, one staircase, all manner of stuff that shouldn't have got past whoever skimped on the renovation. And don't even get me started on how incompetent, fuckawful and generally half baked Chelsea and Kensington's borough council's attempt to accommodate and feed the survivors who've been left homeless has been thus far. That's the stuff that they're supposed to be there to deal with, instead of expecting charities to do their job for them.) You know what's even more dismal? People are sending in money to help the survivors. I sent in my own measly fiver. But the volunteers who are getting the money - and buying food with it - have nobody to give it to. This is because there are too few survivors around in need of help. The people who got out fucked off ASAP to the homes of friends and relatives - as well they might - and just as I'd do in their position. Why would they need food parcels? The bottom line is that the damage has been done and can't now be ameliorated. The goodwill of Mr UK Joe Public right now can't make up for the shittiness of the attitude to the lower end of society that was fostered in the 1980s and has carried on ever since. The people who got incinerated were scum; they were darkies with strange names who didn't matter - and that is that.

Marini -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 2:08:37 PM)
I read a lot of UK news. Interesting to watch the Tories and Labour blame each other. Each side looking for a scapegoat, both sides to blame. Leader of Kensington Council appears to blame Grenfell residents for sprinklers not being installed. Everyone is blaming everyone.

WhoreMods -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 2:12:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: (The cladding, incidentally was the least of it in this case: no sprinklers, one staircase, all manner of stuff that shouldn't have got past whoever skimped on the renovation. And don't even get me started on how incompetent, fuckawful and generally half baked Chelsea and Kensington's borough council's attempt to accommodate and feed the survivors who've been left homeless has been thus far. That's the stuff that they're supposed to be there to deal with, instead of expecting charities to do their job for them.) You know what's even more dismal? People are sending in money to help the survivors. I sent in my own measly fiver. But the volunteers who are getting the money - and buying food with it - have nobody to give it to. This is because there are too few survivors around in need of help. The people who got out fucked off ASAP to the homes of friends and relatives - as well they might - and just as I'd do in their position. Why would they need food parcels? The bottom line is that the damage has been done and can't now be ameliorated. The goodwill of Mr UK Joe Public right now can't make up for the shittiness of the attitude to the lower end of society that was fostered in the 1980s and has carried on ever since. The people who got incinerated were scum; they were darkies with strange names who didn't matter - and that is that. Very true (and appalling) but, part of what councils are there for is to deal with the consequences of local catastrophes. Compare the "Ain't my fault: fuck off" approach taken by Nick Paget-Brown to the amount that was done for the victims of those floods recently: everybody who was flooded out of their homes had a roof over their head and something to eat within hours. Presumably the borough council feels feel that such measures would be wasted on a bunch of wogs who are just driving property values down for people in Kensington who actually own their homes. "Dismal" isn't the half of it...

tj444 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 2:13:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I really hate manufacturers that put shite on the market that hasnt been properly tested, letting their customers discover the possibly dangerous or deadly flaws etc on their own rather than the manufacturer doing it.. or who deliberately sell shite that they already know is dangerous cuz they will still make more money than they will have to pay out for injuries or deaths.. I fucking hate that.. eta- I wonder if that death trap cladding is sold here in the US & if so, what kind of buildings its on.. Apparently, the shit that was used for cladding costs a fiver a panel less than something similar but non-flammable: that's what human life is worth to the shitehawks who've been looking sad for the cameras while trying to evade responsibility for the fruits of their corner cutting and greed, a fiver. Five fucking pounds. (The cladding, incidentally was the least of it in this case: no sprinklers, one staircase, all manner of stuff that shouldn't have got past whoever skimped on the renovation. And don't even get me started on how incompetent, fuckawful and generally half baked Chelsea and Kensington's borough council's attempt to accommodate and feed the survivors who've been left homeless has been thus far. That's the stuff that they're supposed to be there to deal with, instead of expecting charities to do their job for them.) And yes, that crap is on buildings in the 'States as well as Australia and Dubai. I disagree with you that the cladding was the least of it in this case, I believe towers like these are concrete between each floor so the fire should have been contained mostly to the unit it started in and at max the other units on that floor.. which is why they were told to stay put as the fire dept would be there in minutes to put out what should have been a fairly minor fire in comparison.. it was the cladding that allowed the fire to spread up and into each floor all the way to the top.. imo the cladding was what created the death trap.. remember this same thing already happened 2 years earlier in Australia in 2014 where the very same cladding allowed a fire there to engulf 13 floors in 11 minutes.. yeah, the other things contributed but imo this shite cladding was the major cause.. and fire sprinklers inside wont stop a fire on the outside of the building.. the smoke pouring in from the fire outside would likely still get you..

WhoreMods -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 2:14:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I read a lot of UK news. Interesting to watch the Tories and Labour blame each other. Each side looking for a scapegoat, both sides to blame. Leader of Kensington Council appears to blame Grenfell residents for sprinklers not being installed. Everyone is blaming everyone. Have you noticed that Boris Johnson is (for once in his life) trying to avoid attention? He's the former London mayor who was responsible for massive cuts to emergency services funding, so is quite happy to have people shouting at Asif Khan instead.

Marini -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 2:24:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I read a lot of UK news. Interesting to watch the Tories and Labour blame each other. Each side looking for a scapegoat, both sides to blame. Leader of Kensington Council appears to blame Grenfell residents for sprinklers not being installed. Everyone is blaming everyone. Have you noticed that Boris Johnson is (for once in his life) trying to avoid attention? He's the former London mayor who was responsible for massive cuts to emergency services funding, so is quite happy to have people shouting at Asif Khan instead. Oh it is fascinating to watch them all blame --> the other guy. With the building being built in 1967, BOTH sides are to blame. Unless only one "side" has been in power 50 years.

WickedsDesire -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 2:25:34 PM)
Consider me different but a man of science and materials to the daft degree, who has been burnt, and understands 800c heat

tj444 -> RE: London fire: What we know so far about Grenfell Tower (6/17/2017 2:31:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I really hate manufacturers that put shite on the market that hasnt been properly tested, letting their customers discover the possibly dangerous or deadly flaws etc on their own rather than the manufacturer doing it.. or who deliberately sell shite that they already know is dangerous cuz they will still make more money than they will have to pay out for injuries or deaths.. I fucking hate that.. eta- I wonder if that death trap cladding is sold here in the US & if so, what kind of buildings its on.. Apparently, the shit that was used for cladding costs a fiver a panel less than something similar but non-flammable: that's what human life is worth to the shitehawks who've been looking sad for the cameras while trying to evade responsibility for the fruits of their corner cutting and greed, a fiver. Five fucking pounds. (The cladding, incidentally was the least of it in this case: no sprinklers, one staircase, all manner of stuff that shouldn't have got past whoever skimped on the renovation. And don't even get me started on how incompetent, fuckawful and generally half baked Chelsea and Kensington's borough council's attempt to accommodate and feed the survivors who've been left homeless has been thus far. That's the stuff that they're supposed to be there to deal with, instead of expecting charities to do their job for them.) And yes, that crap is on buildings in the 'States as well as Australia and Dubai. This sort of tragedy is one of the reasons many people hate greedy soulless corporate bastards/AND the government agencies that are "supposed" to regulate housing and safety codes, maintain standards and safety, INSPECT and PROTECT---but fall short. BOTH the greedy soulless corporate bastards and the worthless government POS agencies, that are "supposed" to regulate buildings, enforce housing codes, and protect the public safety, are to blame. Many people seem blind to how worthless and ineffective and inefficient many government agencies ARE. Do you REALLY trust the government when it comes to building safety, safety and code regulations, adequate emergency evacuations, clean air, clean and safe water, and protecting our food supply? REALLY? One of the reasons I despise most of our current Democratic leaders is they are in bed with corporate America in the States. Most Democratic leaders have sold their souls and are OWNED by soulless greedy corporate bastards. Who the hell is protecting the citizens from soulless corporations? In reality---usually---no one. As a child born during the 60's. I grew up hearing, Never trust the "man", and that sure as hell includes the government. RIP to the victims of the Grenfell fire. Both parties are shite, the Rs are just as bad and in the same bed with the big corps & 1%ers.. there is no difference and didnt Trump promise big business he would slash regulations & he is gutting the agencies that are supposed to hold soulless corps accountable???? why are you ranting about the Democrats when the Republican party is the very same? actually they are worse cuz they now are undoing many of the protections (such as they are) that are in place.. There is no party or federal politician looking out for you & there hasnt been for quite a while.. If you want a govt that looks out for you more than sleazy corps then you have to move to one of those "socialist" countries..

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