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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 5:57:52 AM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Any idea how much a university education costs in the 'States, Greta? It's not a particularly meritocratic set up from the off.


It depends on the University.

It could cost 300k to 500k for harvard, but for a state university or a lower one, it could be as cheap as 14 to 20k per year for a foreigner. Not sure what local American pays but for state University, might even be cheaper for them. I always assume we foreigners get quoted inflated pricing, which is fair, I feel, we should pay more.

What has price got to do with anything? The education is not free.

Meritocracy is about grades. IF you got top grades, you will be eligible for scholarships anyway!

My own brother is a foreigner and went to the US and got the scholarship because of his SAT scores. My parents didn't even have to pay for his education in the US.

That's how Meritocracy works. You get good grades. You get in. But he also didn't go to Ivy League. There are more Asian quota in lower Universities I guess. Ivy League, with the competition among Asians and the quota for them, he wouldn't get in.My brother's SATs was definitely in the qualifying 1450 region.

And the best part is, he didn't even have to attend high school to take it. You are British, you might be familiar with O'levels. After his O'levels, he took his SATs as well so he can get into an American University. So he actually did worst for his O'levels, and he found SATs so much easier to score good.

I'm glad that your brother could get a scholarship, but if bright kids without parents who can pay for their education are competing for a limited number of bursaries and scholarships, then that is a very long way from a meritocracy. Even if scholarships were offered exclusively for high SAT results (which they're not: you can get a scholarship for being good at "football" in high school), raising the game of the scholarship students considerably, the fact that kids who barely scraped the minimum SAT they need to get into university are dragging the averages down is not meritocratic in any way shape or form. Academics have been arguing for a long time now that teaching that's aimed to accommodate the less gifted students effectively penalises the brighter ones, but as they're the ones whose parents are paying the most into the universities, nothing is going to be done about the situation.

The other sounds right, though: the SATs are a lot easier than O levels used to be, and still a bit easier than GCSEs even now by most accounts.
On the other hand, entry to post graduate qualifications (master's degree, medical school, PhD or DPhil) is a lot more demanding in the 'States. That's why you get a lot more European students taking a second degree there rather than their BA/Bsc as a rule.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 5:58:40 AM   
Musicmystery


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But YOU'RE not a troll.

Good to know.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 5:59:27 AM   
Greta75


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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So 5% of the population is Asian, yet top schools allot up to 20% of their admissions to Asians...and you think ASIANS are discriminated against?

Sure doesn't look that way.

Yes, because why should there be a 20% limit? If there were more Asians who's grades were better, shouldn't more Asians get in?

The University claims that creating a diverse environment is important as well, blah blah blah, but this is soo unfair, it just means, Asians gotta study even harder than other races to get in, when they already have the most punishing studying regime. Their admissions as I quoted, is the highest criteria among all races, because too many perfect scores.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 5:59:50 AM   
BoscoX


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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery






< Message edited by BoscoX -- 6/22/2017 6:02:40 AM >

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:01:10 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So 5% of the population is Asian, yet top schools allot up to 20% of their admissions to Asians...and you think ASIANS are discriminated against?

Sure doesn't look that way.

Yes, because why should there be a 20% limit? If there were more Asians who's grades were better, shouldn't more Asians get in?

The University claims that creating a diverse environment is important as well, blah blah blah, but this is soo unfair, it just means, Asians gotta study even harder than other races to get in, when they already have the most punishing studying regime. Their admissions as I quoted, is the highest criteria among all races, because too many perfect scores.

They're getting in at a rate four times their percentage of the population.

Call the ACLU. Be prepared to hear a lot of laughing.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:03:22 AM   
Greta75


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ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
I'm glad that your brother could get a scholarship, but if bright kids without parents who can pay for their education are competing for a limited number of bursaries and scholarships, then that is a very long way from a meritocracy.

I doubt there is a limited number of bursaries. I feel like my brother is far from nearly the best of Asian kids, but he managed to get scholarship in the US for a lesser University that is.

So if he can, alot of bright kids in the US, must be able to get the scholarship. I don't think US has a problem of having overabundance of children who gets perfect SATs scores and nobody wanna sponsor their education. All these brilliant kids are getting scholarships.

So that is NOT a problem at all.

Meritocracy is about setting the same standards for every race for admissions.

Currently, as you can see, the standards to get in are different for every race. That is wrong!

BTW, I think it's fair to offer scholarship for brilliant sports people too. As different types of people brilliant in different areas. But as long as they are accepting for the same standards without race quotas.

I mean I bet most sports scholarships goes to black people in the US. Imagine if they put a race quota on sports scholarships. The black community would be outrage. Imagine if they said, there are too much black people in Bball, Baseball and American Foot Ball? And they gonna limit the number of black people allowed scholarships for such sports.

That is precisely what is happening with the Universities.

I mean most Asian are too scrawny to ever make Bball, baseball or Football, and I don't mind it going to the deserving black people who are really good at it. After all, we want winners in those sports! And if a specific race is strong in that area! Hell, let them shine!

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:06:48 AM   
WhoreMods


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ORIGINAL: Greta75
Meritocracy is about setting the same standards for every race for admissions.

It's also about not letting idiotic kids get into a university because their parents are loaded, which looks a bit feeble when there's a limited number of scholarship places for kids who aced their SATs.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:08:17 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		It's kind of fun that one of the world's worst bigots is bitching about discrimination.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:09:23 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Meritocracy is about setting the same standards for every race for admissions.

It's also about not letting idiotic kids get into a university because their parents are loaded, which looks a bit feeble when there's a limited number of scholarship places for kids who aced their SATs.

Just because their parents are loaded, doesn't mean they can get into a top University. They still need the scores.

Many loaded kids fail to get into good Universities. Because their grades are too crappy and they got no achievements.

And I have no problem basically, I am saying, everybody regardless of race or wealth, should be able to get in through meritocracy. If a poor kid has top grades, they would get the scholarship anyway.

And of course that means parents shouldn't be able to bribe a school to let their kid with bad grades in.


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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:13:15 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Even Muslims, right?

And since you're such a bigot, why should American colleges have to let them in? Let them go to colleges in their own countries, right?

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:14:16 AM   
Greta75


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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's kind of fun that one of the world's worst bigots is bitching about discrimination.

You do realise as much as I hate Nazis, white supremacists and Muslims. Meritcracy for education means to me that, if Muslims are scoring better than Asian kids, then Harvard better be accepting 100% Muslim kids if the top 500 students for example are Muslims that has the top grades above all other types of students.

So this is what meritocracy means. It means that whoever gets the best grades and best all rounder achievements gets in. Regardless of race, religion or political affliation or social standing.

Just because I want a religion to die, doesn't mean I would want smart Muslims to be denied University entry. IF they got fantastic grades, please have the school filled with Muslims. They deserve it.

And all that means to us Asians is, we gotta work harder than the Muslims to beat them in grades. But we respect that they studied hard and beat us in grades and got in fairly. We wouldn't be sour about it. We would just work harder.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:15:54 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Then there's the problem that, due to Trump's travel bans, they can't be sure they'll be allowed back in the country for the new semester or coming back from a vacation break.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:17:56 AM   
Greta75


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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Then there's the problem that, due to Trump's travel bans, they can't be sure they'll be allowed back in the country for the new semester or coming back from a vacation break.


Dude, if they were American citizens, they aren't applicable to travel ban.

Those are for immigrants.

I'm talking about American citizens. American Muslims. American Asians. People with US citizenship.

They should give priority to American citizens and treat all the different races of American citizens fairly.

BTW, I bet with the race quota, alot of Muslims are under "Asian quota" too. So you do realise this quota discriminate against Muslims right? Pakistani for example are all Muslims? And they are Asian?

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:24:19 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I have NEVER heard of a faculty interview being conducted by telephone. Certainly not for a full time position.

In fact, it's a full on committee affair, followed by chief academic officer interviews, and then it's the call of the provost and then the president.

So in short -- bullshit.

Yes. Obtaining a teaching position at a university here is an intense, highly competitive process. If you haven't a Ph D don't even bother asking for an application form. If you have the academic qualifications that's only the first step - multiple intensive interviews, a rigourous search of your personal history and academic record etc will follow.

The notion that someone might be interviewed for a teaching position over the phone is ridiculous. I have never heard of it happening and can only think that there would be strenuous objections from the entire academic body to it if someone was both silly enough and prepared to commit career suicide to suggest it.

Utter BS

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 6:57:55 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Then there's the problem that, due to Trump's travel bans, they can't be sure they'll be allowed back in the country for the new semester or coming back from a vacation break.


Dude, if they were American citizens, they aren't applicable to travel ban.

Those are for immigrants.

I'm talking about American citizens. American Muslims. American Asians. People with US citizenship.

They should give priority to American citizens and treat all the different races of American citizens fairly.

BTW, I bet with the race quota, alot of Muslims are under "Asian quota" too. So you do realise this quota discriminate against Muslims right? Pakistani for example are all Muslims? And they are Asian?

And again (are you REALLY this fucking stupid?), their "quota" is FOUR TIMES their representation. Hardly discrimination.

But again, if such a bigot as yourself finds Asians are subject to discrimination, good. You personally deserve it, and much worse.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 7:49:03 AM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's kind of fun that one of the world's worst bigots is bitching about discrimination.

You do realise as much as I hate Nazis, white supremacists and Muslims. Meritcracy for education means to me that, if Muslims are scoring better than Asian kids, then Harvard better be accepting 100% Muslim kids if the top 500 students for example are Muslims that has the top grades above all other types of students.

So this is what meritocracy means. It means that whoever gets the best grades and best all rounder achievements gets in. Regardless of race, religion or political affliation or social standing.

Just because I want a religion to die, doesn't mean I would want smart Muslims to be denied University entry. IF they got fantastic grades, please have the school filled with Muslims. They deserve it.

And all that means to us Asians is, we gotta work harder than the Muslims to beat them in grades. But we respect that they studied hard and beat us in grades and got in fairly. We wouldn't be sour about it. We would just work harder.

Yes we do want all of our surgeons to be that nerd kid who missed his face while trying to put his glasses on but spent his entire life in his room studying.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 7:59:24 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's kind of fun that one of the world's worst bigots is bitching about discrimination.

You do realise as much as I hate Nazis, white supremacists and Muslims. Meritcracy for education means to me that, if Muslims are scoring better than Asian kids, then Harvard better be accepting 100% Muslim kids if the top 500 students for example are Muslims that has the top grades above all other types of students.

So this is what meritocracy means. It means that whoever gets the best grades and best all rounder achievements gets in. Regardless of race, religion or political affliation or social standing.

Just because I want a religion to die, doesn't mean I would want smart Muslims to be denied University entry. IF they got fantastic grades, please have the school filled with Muslims. They deserve it.

And all that means to us Asians is, we gotta work harder than the Muslims to beat them in grades. But we respect that they studied hard and beat us in grades and got in fairly. We wouldn't be sour about it. We would just work harder.

Yes we do want all of our surgeons to be that nerd kid who missed his face while trying to put his glasses on but spent his entire life in his room studying.


The world could use more smart Muslims, who are truly well educated and modern thinkers

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 8:00:40 AM   
BoscoX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Then there's the problem that, due to Trump's travel bans, they can't be sure they'll be allowed back in the country for the new semester or coming back from a vacation break.


Dude, if they were American citizens, they aren't applicable to travel ban.

Those are for immigrants.

I'm talking about American citizens. American Muslims. American Asians. People with US citizenship.

They should give priority to American citizens and treat all the different races of American citizens fairly.

BTW, I bet with the race quota, alot of Muslims are under "Asian quota" too. So you do realise this quota discriminate against Muslims right? Pakistani for example are all Muslims? And they are Asian?

And again (are you REALLY this fucking stupid?), their "quota" is FOUR TIMES their representation. Hardly discrimination.

But again, if such a bigot as yourself finds Asians are subject to discrimination, good. You personally deserve it, and much worse.


You are the one who really is "this fucking stupid"

Any quota is by definition discrimination

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 8:07:01 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And again (are you REALLY this fucking stupid?), their "quota" is FOUR TIMES their representation. Hardly discrimination.

But again, if such a bigot as yourself finds Asians are subject to discrimination, good. You personally deserve it, and much worse.

It's discrimination as long as there is a limit put on a certain race to prevent too many of them from entering University. That is what discrimination is. The fact that there is a quota.

The Muslims that you are trying to protect are Asians too. So I guess you are gloating that Muslims are discriminated from going into University just because they are smart. Many South Indian Asians are brilliant and are Muslims too.

Asians includes Muslim people too. So the 20% quota includes Chinese/Indians/Thai/Indonesians/Vietnamese/ Malays etc etc Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country. Many Indians that migrate to the US are Muslims. Alot of Muslims are discriminated.

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RE: The Asian Penalty for US College Entry - 6/22/2017 8:13:22 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Yes we do want all of our surgeons to be that nerd kid who missed his face while trying to put his glasses on but spent his entire life in his room studying.

I frankly don't care who the surgeons are as long as they are reputable to have very high success rate. So I have to assume if an Asian kid can pass surgery, they also did well in the practical segment of it. Otherwise, they should be failed and not given license to practice if they are not competent in the actual surgery.

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