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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/3/2017 3:30:54 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
...
In fact, usually the opposite is true. It is the 'god-fearing' allegedly devout practitioners that all throughout history, have been violent subscribers to such spiritual despotism and fascism.
...

You must know that there have been atheists that have been violent despots as well.

The problem is not religion or atheism the problem is that mankind is rotting at the core and something has to be done about it.


There may have been but I don't know of any. However, for the fascist and yes, the big 3 too, religion is a ripe fruit of cooperation even obedience of society at large in a highly religious and faithful country. Much easier to take control using the church and many despots did just that.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 361
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 11:50:02 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
...
In fact, usually the opposite is true. It is the 'god-fearing' allegedly devout practitioners that all throughout history, have been violent subscribers to such spiritual despotism and fascism.
...

You must know that there have been atheists that have been violent despots as well.

The problem is not religion or atheism the problem is that mankind is rotting at the core and something has to be done about it.


There may have been but I don't know of any. However, for the fascist and yes, the big 3 too, religion is a ripe fruit of cooperation even obedience of society at large in a highly religious and faithful country. Much easier to take control using the church and many despots did just that.

I don't believe mankind is rotting to the core. I observe that the core of mankind is evil and we keep rising back to it.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 12:00:34 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
...
In fact, usually the opposite is true. It is the 'god-fearing' allegedly devout practitioners that all throughout history, have been violent subscribers to such spiritual despotism and fascism.
...

You must know that there have been atheists that have been violent despots as well.

The problem is not religion or atheism the problem is that mankind is rotting at the core and something has to be done about it.


There may have been but I don't know of any. However, for the fascist and yes, the big 3 too, religion is a ripe fruit of cooperation even obedience of society at large in a highly religious and faithful country. Much easier to take control using the church and many despots did just that.


Of course you dont know of any, you never bothers to do a .01 second google search to find out did you....that way you can plead [WILLFUL] ignorance.

Thats false, its much easier taking over when the state makes religious determinations hence establishing a state religion, because religion you must come to, the state on the other hand comes to you and informs you what religion you will be, just ask the mormons and the lgbt community.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 12:05:45 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So ... you have mo more forgiveness than Christians... no moral high ground for you?



Butch, that's what they all do on here!!
They lump us all together, and try to blame shit that happened hundreds of years ago on us.

What makes it even crazier, is we are all different.
Christians run the gamut---the possibilities are limitless.

They throw us all in the same pot.

The only thing, MOST of us have in common, is we BELIEVE in a higher power.

Newsflash!
ALL BELIEVERS ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!
We are not a monolithic group!!



Yes believers are monolithic and in the single most important way.

All theistic believers I've seen, read and known, believe stone age fairly tales, which in representing the beliefs of some several billion people in the big 3 are believers where simply the latest rendition of which is a very similar ancient fairly tale based on something called the Quran.

So pick a god, pick a book, pick a dogma and and one become monolithic in their faith.



then you need to explain why atheists hijack those same anceint religious beliefs, restate them in secular terms and claim it all as their own dogma?

It appears that contrary to 'God religions' atheists believe instead of thou shalt 'not' steal or covet, they champion thou shall steal and covet as long as they can get away with it.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 364
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 12:07:13 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Please don't tell me you have not seen or read the vitriolic hateful things that have been written by people about Christians on here, for YEARS.
pages and pages, threads and threads of gleeful Christian bashing

I'll tell you, I've seen no such thing and we are talking 100's of 1000's of threads on the subject of religion. I've also never seen or heard any such thing out here on the flatland. Occasional, yes, but nothing like you write here...and for YEARS ?


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 365
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 12:07:39 PM   
WhoreMods


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
then you need to explain why atheists hijack those same anceint religious beliefs, restate them in secular terms and claim it all as their own dogma?

It appears that contrary to religion atheists believe instead of though shalt not steal or covet they champion thou shat steal and covet as long as they can get away with it.


You got a citation for that, or is this just more lying bullshit like the crap you spout about Dresden?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 12:14:49 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

Also, I was thinking about proof the other day and I thought it is a little like trying to prove that there is such a thing as color to someone totally blind from birth.


But trying to 'prove' something that needs to be seen to be proved to a blind person is as tough as proving there is a god...that nobody in history has ever seen.

Besides, color to a 100% blind person borders on irrelevant. Just like proving there was a Beethoven to a deaf person.

Wouldn't such a person's first question be...'Why did 'god' make me blind ? For surely, god did.

As an atheist, I do not change in any way when discussing religion. Rather, the mere discovery in fact changes the believers and there respect for what I say.

It doesn't really upset me but what does border on ridiculous is the claim that atheism [is] a religion and atheists do have a god. All of it is merely an attempt to create an equivalence which of course...believers never can.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 367
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 12:24:50 PM   
WickedsDesire


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Status: offline 		Whoremods I am all for the black hole explosions - I will pit you against I, and a rancid kebab what say you all?

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wE arE tHe voiCes,
We SAtuRaTe yOur aLPHA brain WAveS, ThIs is nOt A DrEAm The wiZaRd of Oz, shoES, CaLcuLUs, DECorAtiNG, FrIDGE SProcKeTs, be VeRy sCareDed – SLoBbers,We DeEManDErs Sloowee DAnCiNG, SmOOches – whisper whisper & CaAkEE

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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 12:39:03 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So ... you have mo more forgiveness than Christians... no moral high ground for you?



Butch, that's what they all do on here!!
They lump us all together, and try to blame shit that happened hundreds of years ago on us.

What makes it even crazier, is we are all different.
Christians run the gamut---the possibilities are limitless.

They throw us all in the same pot.

The only thing, MOST of us have in common, is we BELIEVE in a higher power.

Newsflash!
ALL BELIEVERS ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!
We are not a monolithic group!!



Yes believers are monolithic and in the single most important way.

All theistic believers I've seen, read and known, believe stone age fairly tales, which in representing the beliefs of some several billion people in the big 3 are believers where simply the latest rendition of which is a very similar ancient fairly tale based on something called the Quran.

So pick a god, pick a book, pick a dogma and and one become monolithic in their faith.



then you need to explain why atheists hijack those same anceint religious beliefs, restate them in secular terms and claim it all as their own dogma?

It appears that contrary to 'God religions' atheists believe instead of thou shalt 'not' steal or covet, they champion thou shall steal and covet as long as they can get away with it.


I gotta read these. Do you have a few ? Plus tell me, what commandments did the Jews live by before Moses went on his hike up to see god ? Tell me RO, how did the 'Exodus' survive and for over 40 years, getting away with stealing all they could, lie, fuck everybody and even kill ? How did the Sumerian and other civilizations survive ?

How did any ancient cities and civilizations form and survive and for 1000's of years...without all of these divine books and commandments ? Were the 3 big new books 'revised' editions or were they 'new episodes ?' Did god need these addendums ?

Or as archaeological evidence proves, it all...never did happen ?

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 369
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 1:14:27 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

So ... you have mo more forgiveness than Christians... no moral high ground for you?



Butch, that's what they all do on here!!
They lump us all together, and try to blame shit that happened hundreds of years ago on us.

What makes it even crazier, is we are all different.
Christians run the gamut---the possibilities are limitless.

They throw us all in the same pot.

The only thing, MOST of us have in common, is we BELIEVE in a higher power.

Newsflash!
ALL BELIEVERS ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!
We are not a monolithic group!!



Yes believers are monolithic and in the single most important way.

All theistic believers I've seen, read and known, believe stone age fairly tales, which in representing the beliefs of some several billion people in the big 3 are believers where simply the latest rendition of which is a very similar ancient fairly tale based on something called the Quran.

So pick a god, pick a book, pick a dogma and and one become monolithic in their faith.



then you need to explain why atheists hijack those same anceint religious beliefs, restate them in secular terms and claim it all as their own dogma?

It appears that contrary to 'God religions' atheists believe instead of thou shalt 'not' steal or covet, they champion thou shall steal and covet as long as they can get away with it.


I gotta read these. Do you have a few ? Plus tell me, what commandments did the Jews live by before Moses went on his hike up to see god ? Tell me RO, how did the 'Exodus' survive and for over 40 years, getting away with stealing all they could, lie, fuck everybody and even kill ? How did the Sumerian and other civilizations survive ?

How did any ancient cities and civilizations form and survive and for 1000's of years...without all of these divine books and commandments ? Were the 3 big new books 'revised' editions or were they 'new episodes ?' Did god need these addendums ?

Or as archaeological evidence proves, it all...never did happen ?



The problem you have is everything you post with the intent of proving the atheist legitimacy backfires and comes back to bite you in the ass. One need only quick goog and discover:

The Sumerians originally practiced a polytheistic religion, with anthropomorphic deities representing cosmic and terrestrial forces in their world. During the middle of the 3rd millennium BCE, Sumerian deities became more anthropocentric and were "...nature gods transformed into city gods."

you are incorrect. your means fail to justify your ends

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 370
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 10:47:00 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:


then you need to explain why atheists hijack those same anceint religious beliefs, restate them in secular terms and claim it all as their own dogma?

It appears that contrary to 'God religions' atheists believe instead of thou shalt 'not' steal or covet, they champion thou shall steal and covet as long as they can get away with it.



I gotta read these. Do you have a few ? Plus tell me, what commandments did the Jews live by before Moses went on his hike up to see god ? Tell me RO, how did the 'Exodus' survive and for over 40 years, getting away with stealing all they could, lie, fuck everybody and even kill ? How did the Sumerian and other civilizations survive ?

How did any ancient cities and civilizations form and survive and for 1000's of years...without all of these divine books and commandments ? Were the 3 big new books 'revised' editions or were they 'new episodes ?' Did god need these addendums ?

Or as archaeological evidence proves, it all...never did happen ?


Of course there was law before moses, is your google broken?


1. Did sin exist before the law was given through Moses? Romans 5:13. Since sin implies the existence of a law, does the existence of sin before Moses imply there was a law before Moses? Same verse.


2. What specific command did God give Adam and Eve? Genesis 2:16-17. What other commands did he give them? Genesis 1:26-30.


3. How did God warn Cain about the temptation to sin? Genesis 4:6-7. What sin did Cain commit? Verses 8-11.

4. Before the time of Moses, was adultery a sin? Genesis 20:1-7; 39:9. Was it also wrong for Abraham to deceive Abimelech? Genesis 20:9. Did people consider honesty good and stealing evil? Genesis 30:33.

5. What additional commands did God give to Abraham? Genesis 12:1. What blessings did God promise if Abraham obeyed? Verses 2-3. Did Abraham obey? Verse 4. Later, what additional promises did God make to Abraham? Genesis 15:5. What was Abraham’s response to these promises? Verse 6. What was the result of Abraham’s faith? Same verse.

6. Several years later, God reaffirmed his covenant with Abraham (Genesis 17:1-8). From then on, what custom was to serve as a sign of the covenant? Verses 9-14. Was Abraham obedient? Verse 23.

7. After many more years, God again gave a special commandment to Abraham. What was it? Genesis 22:1-2. Did Abraham obey? Verses 3-10. Did Abraham continue to obey God throughout his life? Genesis 26:5.


and what exactly do you 'gotta read'?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 371
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/4/2017 11:51:26 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		It would appear that since religionists reckon the world at 6000 years and atheists at billions, religions have been ripping off atheists and hijacking their values and thoughts and perverting them into non-secular terms and claiming them as their own.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/5/2017 4:12:18 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Please don't tell me you have not seen or read the vitriolic hateful things that have been written by people about Christians on here, for YEARS.
pages and pages, threads and threads of gleeful Christian bashing

I'll tell you, I've seen no such thing and we are talking 100's of 1000's of threads on the subject of religion. I've also never seen or heard any such thing out here on the flatland. Occasional, yes, but nothing like you write here...and for YEARS ?



This is hardly a thread about religion or christianity - This is a thread about creationism.

Creationists are not the representatives of global christianity. Neither the catholic, orthodox, lutheran, anglican and a few more churches, nor jews, nor many muslims have any problems with Darwinist evolution theory. The only ones who can not come to terms with evolution are a loud minority of evangelical literalists. When these get opposition they love to behave as if they were persecuted martyrs in a Neronian arena and blame the cruelty of atheists or whoever else.







,

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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/5/2017 5:07:11 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
However, it seems though it is only Christians who engage in debates with non-believers over evolution and in our discussions of Faith vs Science, or our protagonists do not specify their religion at all.

I would like to say that I believe that for the most part faith and science are in complete agreement accept when it comes to evolution, which I believe to be as scientific as Astrology.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Why then so we tend to assume we are talking to a Christian? Because you are the majority religion in America, and because specifically Christian fundamentalist in particular insult our dis-belief and rage at atheists.

I hope that I have not included myself in "insulting our dis-belief and raging at atheists". I like to discuss Evolution but have no reason to rage or insult except perhaps an occasional slight dig to remind someone to wake up and smell the coffee.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
For myself my comments are never meant to be a personal ad hominem attack. Keep in mind please that this forum is meant to include religious controversy.

Personally, I object to personal ad hominem attacks because they are boring and just don't add to the discussion. You have to read around them to try and figure out if the person has anything real to say about the OP or that they don't have a good answer or that ran out of things to say on topic.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
It is not meant to be taken personal, although the tenor of the remarks have deteriorated to an awful state. There is no need for that.
We can express our differences without calling each other morons or idiots, etc.

Although I did say that you had insulted me in this thread, it was slight and I did not take it personally and had actually posted to Musicmystery for saying Amen to it and not adding anything to the discussion with his post.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I do apologize if you have taken any of my comments personally but believe me when I say I have endured the most gross slander as a non-believer.

Thanx but as for myself, I probably am all the things I'm called so it's hard to take it personally, it's just boring and a waste of everybody time.

Also I hope that you do not feel that I have "grossly slandered" you , it was never my intent and apologize if you feel that way.

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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/5/2017 5:32:25 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
However, it seems though it is only Christians who engage in debates with non-believers over evolution and in our discussions of Faith vs Science, or our protagonists do not specify their religion at all.

I would like to say that I believe that for the most part faith and science are in complete agreement accept when it comes to evolution, which I believe to be as scientific as Astrology.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Why then so we tend to assume we are talking to a Christian? Because you are the majority religion in America, and because specifically Christian fundamentalist in particular insult our dis-belief and rage at atheists.

I hope that I have not included myself in "insulting our dis-belief and raging at atheists". I like to discuss Evolution but have no reason to rage or insult except perhaps an occasional slight dig to remind someone to wake up and smell the coffee.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
For myself my comments are never meant to be a personal ad hominem attack. Keep in mind please that this forum is meant to include religious controversy.

Personally, I object to personal ad hominem attacks because they are boring and just don't add to the discussion. You have to read around them to try and figure out if the person has anything real to say about the OP or that they don't have a good answer or that ran out of things to say on topic.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
It is not meant to be taken personal, although the tenor of the remarks have deteriorated to an awful state. There is no need for that.
We can express our differences without calling each other morons or idiots, etc.

Although I did say that you had insulted me in this thread, it was slight and I did not take it personally and had actually posted to Musicmystery for saying Amen to it and not adding anything to the discussion with his post.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I do apologize if you have taken any of my comments personally but believe me when I say I have endured the most gross slander as a non-believer.

Thanx but as for myself, I probably am all the things I'm called so it's hard to take it personally, it's just boring and a waste of everybody time.

Also I hope that you do not feel that I have "grossly slandered" you , it was never my intent and apologize if you feel that way.


You should expect me to say that your comparison with evolution to astrology is far beyond the pale. And once again I assert that Believers debate against evolution to cover over the complete lack of credibility of creationism. You do not have any positive comments to persuade your side of the debate; you can only point to gaps in our understanding of evolution regardless of the fact that we are gathering evidence from along the trail that stretches over 4.5 billion years while you rest your claim on an imagined single moment, or a few single moments.

As far as insult and slander, I have seen none from you. You have been a gentleman, which is a pleasant diversion from the usual smug crap I encounter from your brethren, whose certainty comes only from their portrayal as the lost apostle. I have no complaint with you, Mr. Miles except you should be prepared to accept in return the "slight" digs against your belief in such a simplistic creed.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/5/2017 5:42:22 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I understand that, Marini, do not assume I am stupid. When we are debating ideas on here we have neither the time, patience or ability to preface all our remarks to exclude this or that varieties of Christians. That would be a Herculian task and an impossible burden. We are talking here about ideas. It is unfortunate that some people personalize and associate the idea with their opposite poster, but that is not license for all other Christians of different categories to assume that they are personally being bashed or trashed. That is on you, the reader, not on the writer. I see some religious champion making ridiculous comments about "scientism" or "evolution is a religion" or "science is a religion" I can read that without personal affront, especially if I am not engaged in the conversation. Your complaints of atheists engaged in thrashing and bashing of Christians probably have some merit as do the opposite complaints about atheist bashing, but as I see it any complaints and whining of that sort have a chilling affect on free expression of ideas, even those that are distasteful. I cannot go into every debate worried that what I say will be taken personally by some non-engaged person of religion. That is a shackle on speech I cannot tolerate.

Thanx for your candor, I don’t necessarily agree with everything you say but I like the way you think.

I look at it a little differently, I don’t worry about the different varieties of “whatever”, I only think of the person I am talking to and how to explain to that person what I am trying to say. I agree it would be a “Herculean task and an impossible burden” to tailor what I say to everyone who might ever read what I say, so I just talk to one person at a time. If someone takes an affront to what I have said to someone else, I deal with that when the time comes, again just one on one and tailoring it to who that person might be. So, I agree that we should not be shackled by an attempt to talk to everyone, well maybe a little but I feel that even when talking one on one, we are shackled somewhat by the need to communicate what we are trying to say so that it is understood. That is kind of the nature of communication.


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RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/5/2017 5:57:55 AM   
Milesnmiles


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
The "inconvenient truth" is that it is facile to argue that belief in "something" is better than belief in nothing. It all depends on what that "something" is, and how that "something" is interpreted and put into practice by believers. It's a case by case thing, and it's riddled with unavoidable value judgements. Generalising it, as you have done, at best only muddies the waters.

And yet you do it so well. The statement; "There's a long list of murderous ideologues who all believed in "something" when the entire world would have been far better off had they believed in nothing", is hardly a "case by case thing" is it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
So I am afraid that, if your intention is to advance a persuasive argument, you are going to have to do a lot better than: 'It's better to believe in something than nothing'. Perhaps it might be, but then again perhaps it might not be. So it neither adds weight to your argument nor does it advance the discussion an iota.
Oh okay, so, show me where the belief in nothing has advanced anything.

A belief in nothing like for example, any god 'the creator' or the divine or any mythology, doesn't result in war, oppression, brutality, torture, imprisonment and murder...like religion (beliefs) do. Then science takes over and that's the only reason we've 'advanced' as far as [we] have.
Don't have to look very far to see the damage when theocracy and despotism rear their ugly heads.

You need to take a closer look at history, you seem to be overlooking the fact the mankind seems to love killing and warfare and that Religion is only one of the many excuses mankind has for engaging in it.

You also seem to be forgetting that there are religions that are conscientious objectors and do engage in such things as “war, oppression, brutality, torture, imprisonment and murder”, although you might point out that has caused others to turn on them with “oppression, brutality, torture, imprisonment and murder” but that cannot said to be the fault of their beliefs.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 377
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/5/2017 6:10:10 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I'm not sure that it's a clever argument to claim that it's better to believe in "something". There's a long list of murderous ideologues who all believed in "something" when the entire world would have been far better off had they believed in nothing. Self proclaimed believers in ideologies and belief systems that claim to be absolutely right have far more blood on their hands than nihilists.

I fail to see any merit in the argument that it's better to believe in one version of a fairy tale than to with hold judgement until the question is resolved. I do see a lot of potential dangers in this position, and am reminded of those dangers every time a religious fundamentalist (of whatever hue) insists against all reason that their particular fairy tale is the Truth the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth and threatens to kill anyone who disrupts their childish certainties.

Sure there is a "long list of murderous ideologues who all believed in "something"" but then what about the even longer list of those who believed in "something" and were not "murderous ideologues" and whose belief changed the world for the better? An inconvenient truth?


Examples ?

You're kidding right?

Go ahead, I'll debate the subject with you.

Stalin, Mao?
Gandhi, Martin Luther King?

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 378
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/5/2017 6:17:32 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I don't agree with your assessment of atheists as I don't and have never seen anyone put people down and in fact most often have been witness to quite the opposite. It is the believers I've run into that call disbelievers heathens, uncivilized and even immoral.

You don’t run into atheists that disagree with your beliefs, amazing.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I simply have more faith in me and secular humanism than any faith relying upon fealty to a dogma passed down by men, written by men that is merely a conglomeration of plagiarism and hearsay from stone age illiterates.
These dogmas (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and tales of the past, are not new, they are adaptations of past societies culminating in...just the latest.

And atheists never put anyone down?



(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 379
RE: Creationist Belief Falling into the Dumpster - 8/5/2017 6:21:16 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I must say I was quite surprised at Marini's accusations coming on the heels of my conversation with MilesnMiles, which was conducted, I thought, in a most civilized and respectful manner by both gentlemen. We were absolutely charming and friendly to one another with nary a personal remark. I thought Marini's comments were very inappropriate in that context.
True but did I note just a wee bit of sarcasm?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 380
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