What is the point of prayer? (Full Version)

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WickedsDesire -> What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 12:33:06 PM)

Self explanatory really.
To whom and why ad does the twain matter?

________________________

True story from the heretic loon called wicked
Last time I prayed was last year because someone dear to me asked me to pray for her dad. And I did. I almost remembered all the words from Our father: American Horror Story ASYLUM Voices of Light: V. Pater Noster

Why did I pray?




MrRodgers -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 6:39:24 PM)

Seems to make a person feel as if they've covered all of the bases, left nothing out to get whatever it is they pray for.

Doesn't change anything except how the prayer feels.




Marini -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 6:42:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Seems to make a person feel as if they've covered all of the bases, left nothing out to get whatever it is they pray for.

Doesn't change anything except how the prayer feels.


weeeeee

Time to bash prayers/worship, Christians and most religions!

Peace




Greta75 -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 9:58:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Self explanatory really.
To whom and why ad does the twain matter?




This is how life works.

If you want anything to come true. You must focus on it and really really deeply believe in it.

But if you can't.

Then second option is, you create an imaginary being, and visualise that he is all great and powerful and can genuinely make anything happen. And you focus on begging him to make it happen for you.

Same results will happen.

Thus why pray works.

We got churches here that sells their church by promoting that God will guarantee your child's Straight As in school. And they got kids under 12 yr old, that even can speak in tongues during "prayer session", with phenomenon scores.

Ya know Asian parents, always want their kids to all score Straight A's

And it's just a psychological focus technique. Except using the concept of God to focus.




WickedsDesire -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 10:06:16 PM)

Hot water bottle and 3 cats - you are getting a bit cheeky with me today?
Best you be on your fuking knees





kdsub -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 10:18:39 PM)

You do all you can do in the material world... then you pray for two reasons. The first is to just be polite to a God that may exist and thank him for wishes granted...why take a chance on his existence and be impolite to an all powerful being?

The second is usually saved for your desire to change the impossible, prevent physical illness injury and or death... and if all else fails wish for yourself or a love one a gloriously happy pain free existence in another realm. You or I will never know for sure the answer to last one... IF... God does not exist because there would be only oblivion. If he does exist well nah nah nah... And in the mean time the believer at least can feel some relief from heartbreak that an atheist cannot ... even if he or she is not sure... To the believer there will always be the possibility of heaven...and if you are a semi Saint like me no worry of Hell.

Butch




Real0ne -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 10:36:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Self explanatory really.
To whom and why ad does the twain matter?




This is how life works.

If you want anything to come true. You must focus on it and really really deeply believe in it.

But if you can't.

Then second option is, you create an imaginary being, and visualise that he is all great and powerful and can genuinely make anything happen. And you focus on begging him to make it happen for you.

Same results will happen.

Thus why pray works.

We got churches here that sells their church by promoting that God will guarantee your child's Straight As in school. And they got kids under 12 yr old, that even can speak in tongues during "prayer session", with phenomenon scores.

Ya know Asian parents, always want their kids to all score Straight A's

And it's just a psychological focus technique. Except using the concept of God to focus.



Yes its been proven that the atheist mind goes out on tilt and blows all the fuses when trying to understand all that God stuff.



[img]https://i.imgur.com/2RN9DXl.jpg[/img]




Real0ne -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 10:48:06 PM)


1 John 5:14
14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

1 John 5:15
15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

1 John 5:16
16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

1 Chronicles 16:11
11 Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face always.

2 Chronicles 6:21
21 Hear the supplications of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place. Hear from heaven, your dwelling place; and when you hear, forgive.

2 Chronicles 7:14
14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Ephesians 1:18
18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

Ephesians 6:18
18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Jeremiah 29:12
12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you.

Job 22:27
27 You will pray to him, and he will hear you, and you will fulfill your vows.

John 17:15
15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

James 5:13
13 Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise.

Mark 11:24
24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Matthew 5:44
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Matthew 6:7
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Matthew 26:41
41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Proverbs 15:8
8 The LORD detests the sacrifice of the wicked, but the prayer of the upright pleases him.

Psalm 17:6
6 I call on you, my God, for you will answer me; turn your ear to me and hear my prayer.

Psalm 102:17
17 He will respond to the prayer of the destitute; he will not despise their plea.

Psalm 141:2
2 May my prayer be set before you like incense; may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice.

Romans 12:2
2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Romans 12:12
12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer.

Psalm 4:1
1 Answer me when I call to you, my righteous God. Give me relief from my distress; have mercy on me and hear my prayer.

Psalm 145:18
18 The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

Luke 11:2-4
2 He said to them, “When you pray, say: “ ‘Father,hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. 3 Give us each day our daily bread. 4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.And lead us not into temptation.’ ”

Proverbs 15:29
29 The LORD is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous.

Matthew 6:9-13
9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation,but deliver us from the evil one.’

Matthew 7:11
11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Luke 6:12
12 One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.

Luke 18:1
1 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.

Romans 8:26
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

Philippians 4:6
6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

Colossians 4:2
2 Devote yourselves to prayer, being watchful and thankful.

1 Thessalonians 5:17
17 pray continually,

1 Timothy 2:8
8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.

Hebrews 4:14
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.

James 1:7
7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.

James 4:3
3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

James 5:16
16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1 Timothy 2:1-2
1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.





WickedsDesire -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 11:03:48 PM)

Make yourself useful for once and go to the shop for me and get me a jar of coffee and a nice bit of cake.




Real0ne -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/27/2017 11:15:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Seems to make a person feel as if they've covered all of the bases, left nothing out to get whatever it is they pray for.

Doesn't change anything except how the prayer feels.


weeeeee

Time to bash prayers/worship, Christians and most religions!

Peace


When a child being driven by hunger cries for milk, then milk is generated in the mother’s breasts. The child does not know what prayer is, but his cries draw the milk. This is a universal experience. Sometimes when the mother does not perceive the presence of milk in her breasts, the child’s cries help to draw it. Then can our cries before God Almighty draw nothing? They certainly draw everything. But those sightless ones, who parade themselves as scholars and philosophers, cannot see it.

If a person were to reflect on the philosophy of prayer, keeping in mind the connection and relationship which a child has with its mother, he would find it easy to understand. The second type of mercy comes into operation after supplication. Go on asking and you will go on receiving:

“Pray unto Me, I will answer your prayer,”1 is not mere verbiage, but is a characteristic of human nature. To supplicate is human, to respond is Divine. He who does not understand and does not believe is false. The illustration of the child that I have set forth expounds the philosophy of prayer in an excellent way.2

It is at a time of trial that the wonderful and rare qualities and effects of prayer are manifested. The truth is that our God is recognized only through prayers.3




Kaliko -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 3:47:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

When a child being driven by hunger cries for milk, then milk is generated in the mother’s breasts. The child does not know what prayer is, but his cries draw the milk. This is a universal experience. Sometimes when the mother does not perceive the presence of milk in her breasts, the child’s cries help to draw it. Then can our cries before God Almighty draw nothing? They certainly draw everything. But those sightless ones, who parade themselves as scholars and philosophers, cannot see it.





Catholic school girl, here, and never once have I heard a description of how prayer works that was as clear as this one. Nice.

FR

I'm no longer church-religious, but I do believe in the power of prayer as collective thought. I know that i've read up on when large-scale group prayer has actually made an impact, but I couldn't tell you now where I've pulled all that from. But it stuck - it made sense to me - and I believe in it. And my take on that is that I don't have to explain it to anyone or convince anyone. Except, I suppose, on a BDSM board, of course. LOL




Musicmystery -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 5:54:26 AM)

Here's the best description of prayer I've ever (over)heard:

Person A (facing many difficulties): "I don't know what to do."
Person B: "You need to learn to pray."
Person A (thinking B is a religious nut): "To whom???"
Person B: "Who cares?"

There doesn't need to be a mystical process going on. The practice of prayer acknowledges the need for help outside of one's self, gets one to stop, settle, be calm enough to carry through the prayer, and if the prayer is for others instead of self-directed, gets one outside of the loop of self. It's a mental refocusing, promotes different (better) choices rather than perpetuation of the problem, leaves one open to new things happening and new input and help arriving, so the person tends to watch for it and recognize opportunity (vs. head to the ground everything sucks closed off).

I'm not a pray-er -- I meditate daily.

But I get why people do.

Even some people who don't have faith in god.




bounty44 -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 6:02:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Seems to make a person feel as if they've covered all of the bases, left nothing out to get whatever it is they pray for.

Doesn't change anything except how the prayer feels.


do you know that one of the essences of wisdom is to "know that you do not know"---as opposed to thinking/acting as if you do.




Musicmystery -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 6:04:23 AM)

Do you?




Real0ne -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 8:10:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Here's the best description of prayer I've ever (over)heard:

Person A (facing many difficulties): "I don't know what to do."
Person B: "You need to learn to pray."
Person A (thinking B is a religious nut): "To whom???"
Person B: "Who cares?"

There doesn't need to be a mystical process going on. The practice of prayer acknowledges the need for help outside of one's self, gets one to stop, settle, be calm enough to carry through the prayer, and if the prayer is for others instead of self-directed, gets one outside of the loop of self. It's a mental refocusing, promotes different (better) choices rather than perpetuation of the problem, leaves one open to new things happening and new input and help arriving, so the person tends to watch for it and recognize opportunity (vs. head to the ground everything sucks closed off).

I'm not a pray-er -- I meditate daily.

But I get why people do.

Even some people who don't have faith in god.




Describing the outward appearances has exactly zippo to do with explaining how prayer actually works, hence the mystery.

The whole point is your atheistic 'secular' theory misses the whole point as explained in my previous post.




Greta75 -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 8:22:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Yes its been proven that the atheist mind goes out on tilt and blows all the fuses when trying to understand all that God stuff.



[img]https://i.imgur.com/2RN9DXl.jpg[/img]



I know you love to quote your bogus Christian science.

But it doesn't change any facts that, the same things could have happen with or without prayers. But it's how the person want to focus on making it happen. Some people have no faith in themselves, so they need a clutch to have faith in a imaginary higher being to help themselves get to where they want to be.

It's like regardless of what religion, there are always success stories of how their respective Gods helped them. Gosh, the things in mythological Chinese Deities for successful Chinese business men who swear by them.

I believe everyone of these religious individuals would have reach their goals with or without the help of their religion, as long as they are able to believe in their own ability to make it happen.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 9:58:13 AM)

FR
The point of prayer? Oh fuck that's an easy one: It makes the person praying feel better.




Real0ne -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 10:08:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Yes its been proven that the atheist mind goes out on tilt and blows all the fuses when trying to understand all that God stuff.



[img]https://i.imgur.com/2RN9DXl.jpg[/img]



I know you love to quote your bogus Christian science.

But it doesn't change any facts that, the same things could have happen with or without prayers. But it's how the person want to focus on making it happen. Some people have no faith in themselves, so they need a clutch to have faith in a imaginary higher being to help themselves get to where they want to be.

It's like regardless of what religion, there are always success stories of how their respective Gods helped them. Gosh, the things in mythological Chinese Deities for successful Chinese business men who swear by them.

I believe everyone of these religious individuals would have reach their goals with or without the help of their religion, as long as they are able to believe in their own ability to make it happen.



quote:

Single-photon emission computed tomography
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Single-photon emission computed tomography.

Single-photon emission computed tomography (SPECT, or less commonly, SPET) is a nuclear medicine tomographic imaging technique using gamma rays.[1] It is very similar to conventional nuclear medicine planar imaging using a gamma camera (that is, scintigraphy).[2] However, it is able to provide true 3D information. This information is typically presented as cross-sectional slices through the patient, but can be freely reformatted or manipulated as required.

The technique requires delivery of a gamma-emitting radioisotope (a radionuclide) into the patient, normally through injection into the bloodstream. On occasion, the radioisotope is a simple soluble dissolved ion, such as an isotope of gallium(III). Most of the time, though, a marker radioisotope is attached to a specific ligand to create a radioligand, whose properties bind it to certain types of tissues. This marriage allows the combination of ligand and radiopharmaceutical to be carried and bound to a place of interest in the body, where the ligand concentration is seen by a gamma camera.




Nope nothing christian in that greta, nice try.

You appear to be experiencing the typical atheist cognitive dissonance since you are trying to explain prayer as not prayer.

Again focus is merely an external observation, tells us nothing and does not answer the question 'how' is it possible, since the results often come from something external to ones personal control.




tamaka -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 10:39:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Yes its been proven that the atheist mind goes out on tilt and blows all the fuses when trying to understand all that God stuff.



[img]https://i.imgur.com/2RN9DXl.jpg[/img]



I know you love to quote your bogus Christian science.

But it doesn't change any facts that, the same things could have happen with or without prayers. But it's how the person want to focus on making it happen. Some people have no faith in themselves, so they need a clutch to have faith in a imaginary higher being to help themselves get to where they want to be.

It's like regardless of what religion, there are always success stories of how their respective Gods helped them. Gosh, the things in mythological Chinese Deities for successful Chinese business men who swear by them.

I believe everyone of these religious individuals would have reach their goals with or without the help of their religion, as long as they are able to believe in their own ability to make it happen.



quote:

Single-photon emission computed tomography
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Single-photon emission computed tomography.

Single-photon emission computed tomography (SPECT, or less commonly, SPET) is a nuclear medicine tomographic imaging technique using gamma rays.[1] It is very similar to conventional nuclear medicine planar imaging using a gamma camera (that is, scintigraphy).[2] However, it is able to provide true 3D information. This information is typically presented as cross-sectional slices through the patient, but can be freely reformatted or manipulated as required.

The technique requires delivery of a gamma-emitting radioisotope (a radionuclide) into the patient, normally through injection into the bloodstream. On occasion, the radioisotope is a simple soluble dissolved ion, such as an isotope of gallium(III). Most of the time, though, a marker radioisotope is attached to a specific ligand to create a radioligand, whose properties bind it to certain types of tissues. This marriage allows the combination of ligand and radiopharmaceutical to be carried and bound to a place of interest in the body, where the ligand concentration is seen by a gamma camera.




Nope nothing christian in that greta, nice try.

You appear to be experiencing the typical atheist cognitive dissonance since you are trying to explain prayer as not prayer.

Again focus is merely an external observation, tells us nothing and does not answer the question 'how' is it possible, since the results often come from something external to ones personal control.



It is possible because observed particles behave differently than nonobserved.




Musicmystery -> RE: What is the point of prayer? (7/28/2017 1:05:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

FR
The point of prayer? Oh fuck that's an easy one: It makes the person praying feel better.

Well said.




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