quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Russians do not live on wheat, nobody does. Wheat makes bread and pasta, empty carbs. Find out where they buy their meat and veggies.

Also bear in mind that there is no real evidence they did anything. We've been through all that. It is all a matter of "he said they did it" with not one shred of real evidence.

So if you want to piss off people who are the only ones who can really give us trouble, go right ahead. Life was getting boring anyway.

T^T

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
they just kicked out 755 US diplomats, so yeah,
oh and the sanctions bill?congress(senate and house) can override trumps veto

Who says Trump is going to veto it? Apparently, he signaled he'd support it over a week ago.

nobody knows for sure what he will or wont say or do, but more than a few have opined on it.
because HIS people have said, its possible
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449865/donald-trump-russia-sanctions-bill-veto-would-be-politically-disastrous from 7/26
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/trump-russia-sanctions-veto-cnntv/index.html from 7/27
http://www.newsweek.com/can-trump-veto-block-or-delay-bill-russian-sanctions-643526 from 7/28; relies on comments from last week; Scaramucci was also reported to have said that the veto might come because the bill didn't go far enough
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/trump-may-veto-russia-sanctions-bill-that-seeks-to-restrain-his-power/2017/07/27/0e9f5e8c-72ca-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.bd884b8e0be7 from 7/28,
and Scaramucci was quoted as saying Trump could veto it to negotiate a tougher bill
http://globalnews.ca/news/3630463/us-senate-votes-for-russia-sanctions/ from 7/27
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/russia-sanctions-bill-senate-to-pass-241034 from 7/27

quote:

The White House has avoided taking a clear position on the sanctions legislation all week, with communications director Anthony Scaramucci telling CNN on Thursday that Trump "may sign the sanctions exactly the way they are, or he may veto the sanctions and negotiate an even tougher deal against the Russians."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-prepares-to-pass-sanctions-bill--and-set-up-veto-dilemma-for-trump/2017/07/25/ece80164-7138-11e7-8839-ec48ec4cae25_story.html?utm_term=.71da0227c003 from 7/25
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/344074-scaramucci-trump-may-veto-bipartisan-russia-sanctions-bill from 7/27 Once again, the veto was in reference to possibly making the bill tougher.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/trump-has-no-choice-but-to-accept-sanctions-against-russia-bill-browder.html from 7/27 Once again, the veto was in reference to possibly making the bill tougher.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
There is an easy solution to the whole problem with Russia.
Russia is still the biggest purchaser of grains from the US, due to the simple fact that even with the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russian farming efficiency is still in the toilet.
In fact, since the US is the largest grain producing country on the planet, if we stopped exporting to Russia, they could not purchase enough grains from the rest of the world to make up the difference.

What right does the Federal Government have to unilaterally sanction Russia, especially with such severe a severe embargo on a basic foodstuff?


I see. They elected a "strong leader" so fuck 'em? Let them die?

If we're sanctioning Russia over meddling in our elections, how, exactly, is this not meddling in their elections?



How imperialistic of you. I, on the other hand, hope for a less imperialistic USA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
There is an easy solution to the whole problem with Russia.
Russia is still the biggest purchaser of grains from the US, due to the simple fact that even with the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russian farming efficiency is still in the toilet.
In fact, since the US is the largest grain producing country on the planet, if we stopped exporting to Russia, they could not purchase enough grains from the rest of the world to make up the difference.

What right does the Federal Government have to unilaterally sanction Russia, especially with such severe a severe embargo on a basic foodstuff?
I see. They elected a "strong leader" so fuck 'em? Let them die?
If we're sanctioning Russia over meddling in our elections, how, exactly, is this not meddling in their elections?
How imperialistic of you. I, on the other hand, hope for a less imperialistic USA.

The elected a former top officer in the KGB that has stated intentions to rebuild the glorious Russian empire.
He lied about the Russian military involvement in the Ukraine, by insisting that the seperatist rebels had enough helicopters to transport 6 full battalions of troops into a combat zone (didnt matter the damn things had Russian markings,) had his intel people release a satilite photo of a 'Ukranian" jet shooting down a civilian airliner (didnt matter that the image was proven to be doctored by photo analysts at the CIA, NSA and a couple of nitwits at FOX news)
Oh yes, then there are the two properties they are demanding to be returned, which when searched by CIA and NSA experts found all kinds of high tech electronic surveillance equipment and not one item of diplomatic value.
And let us not forget that Putin has spent every year he has been in power rebuilding their nuclear arsenal.
Oh, and the fact that everyone that speaks out against him ends up in prison or dead. The same is true for the Russian LGBT community.
And opposition political opponents tend to have fatal accidents.

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Strong leader?
Let me guess, you consider Hitler a strong leader, same as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hussein, and Chairman Mao?

quote:

Tell you something else, Putin was such a bastard at the KGB that the CIA had one standing order on the man IF he left the Soviet Union, terminate with extreme prejudice.
He was part of the KGB staff that sent out directives to client governments on how to deal with dissidents, one of his great accomplishments were the Nicaraguan Death squads, you know the guys that executed 12 Catholic nuns as an example to other clergy in that country when the Communists were in control?
So, yeah he is a strong leader, the same as every fucking shit bag power hungry ass who keeps getting elected because opposition people end up dead or in prison.
Oh, and he was involved in the KGB coup against Gorbachev who decided that the Berlin wall had to go and the cold war had to end.

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So yeah, put the screws to the people to force him out or push the country to the point that the French army could walk in and take Russia while drunk as lords and no ammo in their weapons.

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Personally, given his history and the history of his top advisors, I would love to see them staked out over a fire ant bed under a nice hot August sun with their eyelids slit so they could enjoy looking at the sky while they screamed.

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quote:

Oh, and the fact that everyone that speaks out against him ends up in prison or dead. The same is true for the Russian LGBT community.

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Great, in your opinion a strong leader is one who oppresses his people, eliminates dissidents and opposition.
And you call me a hypocrite?

quote:

As for the government's right to impose sanctions, since the sanctions only apply to US firms and US citizens doing business with Russia, as well as diplomatic sanctions, the government is well within its constitutional powers to do so.
In fact, is the responsibility of the government to do so, in order to bring pressure to a government without blowing the shit out of the country to make its point.

quote:

Now granted, historically speaking, when the US applied sanctions on its own, they rarely worked, case in point, the Japanese during the years from 1937 through 12-7-41.
But, more to the point, the Russian people could, vote the bastards out, and failing that, some of the more moderate members of his government could kick the son of a bitch out.
However, since you seem to feel that this particular gentleman is a good leader, I still would like to point out that everyone that has politically opposed him since he came to power have ended up in prison or dead.

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Then there is his government's stand on the LGBT community within Russia itself, they are arrested, imprisoned, tortured, beaten and worse, by police and government agents for being gay, lesbian, bi or transgendered.

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One more thing, I have seen first hand what Russian troops do to indigenous populations, and I am not referring to their Spetsnaz. You know the crimes that US troops go to prison for, murdering indigenous civilians, well those guys get promoted for the same shit.
And claiming that only happened during the communist years is bullshit. It is happening in the Ukraine and Chechnya today, and every other place within Russia where some group stands up and tells Putin to fuck himself.
So the sanctions are more than justified, and the US is not the only government doing it. The thing is that since he came to power, he has pretty much rebuilt the Russian military and put former communist hardliners in key positions.

quote:

Granted, those hardliners may die of old age over the next 30 years, but honestly, the man and his ilk need to be taken out.
Now, it is true that the US gave up on foreign political leader assassinations after the number of failed attempts on Castro, but in his case, an exception should be made.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
The US sanctions are only those that the US can implement. However, it is also my understanding that the US asks other nations to join in...some may be pressured to do so.

Historically, yes.
Under the current management, after the shite el presidente has been spouting since November about the freeloading scum in NATO, and dissing every world leader about apart from Putin and the house of Saud, exactly who's going to feel obliged to support him in imposing sanctions?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
There is an easy solution to the whole problem with Russia.
Russia is still the biggest purchaser of grains from the US, due to the simple fact that even with the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russian farming efficiency is still in the toilet.
In fact, since the US is the largest grain producing country on the planet, if we stopped exporting to Russia, they could not purchase enough grains from the rest of the world to make up the difference.

What right does the Federal Government have to unilaterally sanction Russia, especially with such severe a severe embargo on a basic foodstuff?
I see. They elected a "strong leader" so fuck 'em? Let them die?
If we're sanctioning Russia over meddling in our elections, how, exactly, is this not meddling in their elections?
How imperialistic of you. I, on the other hand, hope for a less imperialistic USA.

The elected a former top officer in the KGB that has stated intentions to rebuild the glorious Russian empire.
He lied about the Russian military involvement in the Ukraine, by insisting that the seperatist rebels had enough helicopters to transport 6 full battalions of troops into a combat zone (didnt matter the damn things had Russian markings,) had his intel people release a satilite photo of a 'Ukranian" jet shooting down a civilian airliner (didnt matter that the image was proven to be doctored by photo analysts at the CIA, NSA and a couple of nitwits at FOX news)
Oh yes, then there are the two properties they are demanding to be returned, which when searched by CIA and NSA experts found all kinds of high tech electronic surveillance equipment and not one item of diplomatic value.
And let us not forget that Putin has spent every year he has been in power rebuilding their nuclear arsenal.
Oh, and the fact that everyone that speaks out against him ends up in prison or dead. The same is true for the Russian LGBT community.
And opposition political opponents tend to have fatal accidents.

And, what does any of that have to do with the US having the authority to hand down sanctions unilaterally?

quote:

Strong leader?
Let me guess, you consider Hitler a strong leader, same as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hussein, and Chairman Mao?

Stalin, Hitler, Saddam, and Mao were strong leaders. I assume Pol Pot was, too. Trump is trying to be. Obama tried to be.

"Strong," however, does not refer to the ability of the person. Strong refers to the position and how it relates to the other parts of government. If I recall correctly, the Queen of England holds little authority over governance, with governance being up to the Prime Minister and the Parliament. The monarch's position in the government of the UK, then, would be considered weak. The Prime Minister, too, leaves most legislation and governance up to the Parliament, though the PM and Cabinet may have considerable influence. That would make the PM position of the UK somewhat weak, though more strong than the monarch, for every day governance.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Saddam were strong leaders. The Federal Government was not designed for the POTUS to be a strong position.

quote:

Tell you something else, Putin was such a bastard at the KGB that the CIA had one standing order on the man IF he left the Soviet Union, terminate with extreme prejudice.
He was part of the KGB staff that sent out directives to client governments on how to deal with dissidents, one of his great accomplishments were the Nicaraguan Death squads, you know the guys that executed 12 Catholic nuns as an example to other clergy in that country when the Communists were in control?
So, yeah he is a strong leader, the same as every fucking shit bag power hungry ass who keeps getting elected because opposition people end up dead or in prison.
Oh, and he was involved in the KGB coup against Gorbachev who decided that the Berlin wall had to go and the cold war had to end.

None of that means fuckall to whether the US has the authority to unilaterally apply sanctions.

quote:

So yeah, put the screws to the people to force him out or push the country to the point that the French army could walk in and take Russia while drunk as lords and no ammo in their weapons.

Thank you for finally answering a question. You'd rather see every day Russians die. Congrats, Jeff. You're supporting our doing things that you oppose when done by those you've previously mention.

Hypocrite much?

quote:

Personally, given his history and the history of his top advisors, I would love to see them staked out over a fire ant bed under a nice hot August sun with their eyelids slit so they could enjoy looking at the sky while they screamed.

I'm not 100% sure, but I do think that would be opposed to our Constitution. But, hey, fuck 'em!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

quote:

Oh, and the fact that everyone that speaks out against him ends up in prison or dead. The same is true for the Russian LGBT community.

That is not true. Pussy Riot got arrested for invading a church and disrupting their proceedings. They also got removed from one of the entrances to the Olympics.

Putin said himself that he thought the sentences they got were too harsh. But then of course he did not pardon them or commute their sentences.

Pussy Riot was one of the most vocal of the anti-Putin faction in Russia, but what happened to them was no worse than what would have happened here. They disturbed the peace. They disturbed people. They invaded a fucking church.

Putin has a hell of alot of popular support. People have jobs, money, disposable income and something on which to spend it. They have it better than it ever was in the Soviet days. They are actully doing better there than we are here.

Putin has been much maligned by our media but what has he really done ? They still have no evidence of election tampering. So what else do you got ? That he operates in the best interest of Russia instead of the US and the western oil companies ? What the fuck do you expect him to do ?

i see no issue here. Let those diplomats go home, fuck it. Bring ours back, but really I have no idea how to get them any honest work. They are talkers, who take complaints from USians in Russia and either fix it or scurry them home. What kind of job would you give them ? Sweep the floor at a McD's ? How many USians are in Russia ? I would bet few. At 755 there are probably more diplomats than regular people.

Most people think Russia is a backwards country, still watching black and whit TV. But that is not how it is. They got what we got, they got ICBMs as good as ours, they got better war planes. They got just as good weapons as we do. Think of the AK-47, I actually want one. But I want it made in Russia or Israel, not China or any of those other elcheapo countries.

They might not have it as good there as here, where we have two acre yards n shit. But they have it better than ever after the Soviets left. They are happy.

And I am not.

T^T

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Once again, the US can sanction whatever the US can implement. The adj. unilateral is fine because it is a 'uni-source' of action and the US takes such action by itself...for itself. (unilateral)
As I wrote, the US simply asks others to join in.

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