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CreativeDominant -> RE: no more D/s? (7/31/2006 7:46:40 AM)
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ORIGINAL: losttreasure
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
One of my pet peeves is the type of profile that says "my submission must be earned". Though I try to think good thoughts about the statement and not pre-judge it, it bugs me every time I see it because the first thought in my head is "And just how do I do that?" The second thought is "Are you going to be one of those who tells me how I must dominate in order for you to submit? Could that not be construed as topping from the bottom?" Maybe in many cases, it isn't...but I've talked to quite a few where that is exactly the case.
I don't know, CD... perhaps you need to look at it from a different direction.
If you will, allow me to answer your questions and maybe next time, you'll be able to hang on to those good thoughts a little longer.
"And just how do I do that?"
Easy. Just be yourself and be open. What is really being earned is my trust. In order to be comfortable turning over control of my well-being to you, I have to know you. I need to feel assured that you are mature and stable, and have the ability to make sound decisions with not only your own, but my best interest in mind.
And that type of earning I have no problem with. Being myself is the only way I know how to be BUT that self, most people that know me will tell you, is a very nice guy...a good doctor...a good friend (though a bit wary of friends)...a good dad...a good uncle...a good brother. In watching me, you would also observe this and see that it is not just them sticking up for me, it is where I am. But I always remember that there are some who hold the opposing viewpoint to mine regarding my nature.
As for judging whether or not my decisions are sound, this comes to a bit more difficult arena: I've made some judgments that have proven to be sound over time, but at the time I made them, many around me...not knowing the history of the situation in which I was making the judgment...thought me to be "nuts" or were making comments such as "this is gonna backfire on you". If I were getting to know a submissive and she is beginning to know aspects of my private life outside the office and I make a decision regarding my daughters...and she knows only a little about the relationship between me and my daughters...then she may react as many have done..."Ummm, CD...I think you're wrong here, that's not in your daughter's/your best interests, etc." or she may hold her thoughts to herself but in her mind, I may have just "proven" to her where I don't have the ability to make a good decision in her interests. Or I may make a suggestion or state my feelings about something she is considering...if asked...and because my feelings go against hers (though they may be right and yet, because of the situation...not submitting yet, not willing to try my suggestions, whatever...she does not allow herself to consider them in that manner), I am not capable of making a sound decision. This can become a quandary even in a well-established D/s relationship...I like submissives with intelligence who do not expect me to manage every small area of their life and who can hold their own in discussions and who will not allow something or someone to fuck up their life by making wrong decisions. But...I have met those submissives who carry this to the extreme and yes, lost...these are the ones I refer to above. But...I've also met the other kind...the kind you refer to and the ones I speak about above...which is why I do try to hang on to the good thoughts.
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"Are you going to be one of those who tells me how I must dominate in order for you to submit?"
Well... yes. In order to know if we will mesh in the best possible way, I need to know that your style of dominance matches my style of submission. By presenting my expectations for a dominant, I'm giving you the opportunity to dip your toes into the water without having to dive right in. In the same respect, I would hope that you would reciprocate by letting me know your expectations for a submissive. This way, if either of us feels that we can't measure up to the other's expectations, we can bow out gracefully and no feelings hurt.
That makes sense to me...~s~...but not what I was referring to. As mentioned on here several months ago in a thread regarding the value of opposing side of the whip "mentors". I had a submissive for awhile that had been 'trained' by one of these mentors. What often happened was that in instances of correction...as an example...I would state what had displeased me and we would discuss it before I would apply discipline. Usually, I got not her opinion...but her mentor's expressed as hers. "That's not how High & Mighty Trainer would see this". I would state to her how I expected to be served in some area...she would then proceed to do the task in a different manner...different enough that I took note. When I asked her about this, her reply was that she had accomplished the task and had done so in a way that "should please most dominants...she knew, because it had done so many times with very few displeased...and I should learn not to be so picky". My next question then was "And the few that this service displeased?" Her answer..."they aren't dominants, in my opinion."
(side note: This goes along with the above regarding decisions. I just recalled it and did nto want to try and type and paste so I stuck it here.) She asked me about relocating. I told her that I could not, at that time (we lived a couple of hours away from each other), but would be able to consider it in the future. I made a good decision...financially...for both of us. But it wasn't what she wanted. Therefore, in her eyes...it was not a good decision.
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Could that not be construed as topping from the bottom?"
I don't think so, but you tell me, please. Are you requiring submission from the outset, without reasonable care to determine if even our ideas of D/s are compatible? How responsible is that? Would you really trust a submissive who will make such life altering decisions with no thought or consideration?
Then again, maybe I'm not understanding the types of issues you've run into.
No...I do not require full submission from the outset. This was discussed in a thread that bearlee started about "measures" or "levels" of submission and dominance. I do not expect full submission from the start. I get the idea that I have to earn my way to a level in which full submission is what is felt on the part of the submissive. Perhaps part of the problem is never knowing where that is...that part is almost never discussed while the part about earning that level of submission is discussed...ad nauseaum in many cases.
Discussion only takes you so far though, lost. I want to know everything I can about a submissive...her thoughts, her dreams, her disappointments, her D/s and BDSM desires. I will open myself up on these same levels but at a certain point, a decision has to be made and action taken and a beginning beyond getting toes wet needs to be made. And yeah, maybe with me, a small part of that is past baggage. Maybe... for many...it is. But a large part of it is a realization of time going by also. As I said, I don't expect...nor want...nor would trust...full submission given to me at the outset. NOR do I want to be reminded each time I make what I feel is an appropriate dominant overture or commit a dominant act that I think is appropriate to the relationship and the situation to be told that it is not the right act for the time/the relationship/in her opinion.
If you'd care to go further with the discussion from my own personal standpoint...and not the view of many as I do not profess to speak for others...write me.
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