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A question! - 7/28/2006 1:55:52 AM

Satyr6406

Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline

Here I go, doing what I do best (stirring the pot). Someday, I will have to take the time to figure out how to post a poll.

Submission; a "gift"?

I'll answer my own question first:

"gift (gift) n. 1. Something bestowed voluntarily and without compensation. 2. The act, right, or power of giving. 3. A talent or aptitude. [<ON.]" ... the American Heritage Dictionary

We all know that the definitions in dictionaries are in order for a reason. Based upon definition 1, submission cannot be a gift because, when a submissive bestows this "gift", they expect something, in return. They expect our dominance. They expect a certain amount of honor to be paid that "gift" (Heck, some want us to grovel for it! [good luck!]).

Now, this is not to say that submission (depending upon the submissive who bestows it) is not a treasured item and it doesn't mean that it isn't given freely but, since they expect something, in return, it canNOT be a "gift".

Just my humble opinion

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

Post #: 1

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 2:04:24 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

First I will point out the irony in labeling a subject with something as completely uninformative as "A question" and then punctuating it with an exclamation point.

But, to the topic at hand...

Reposted:
You know, this is just the "uber romantic ideal that will not die." I give up on trying to explain that because no matter what the hell you call it, if you want a relationship to work in the long term, you've gotta put the same work into it that every other person has to put into it, the same energy, the same skills.

So call it a gift till you get a coronary for all I care- just understand how people will perceive that and your little "gift" isn't going to insulate you from anything that a normal vanilla person has to deal with.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_417971/mpage_2/key_submission%252Cgift/tm.htm#418195
Submission is a gift!!!!???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_285542/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#285542
If submission is a 'gift.' what's dominance?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_199872/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#199872
The Gift you give to yourself

http://www.collarchat.com/m_195087/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#195087
A gift???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_137582/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#137582
The Domly Gift

http://www.collarchat.com/m_135667/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#135667
Why do so many view submission as a gift?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_128811/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#128811
Do you consider your submission to someone a gift?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_118674/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#118674
Gift or not...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_109097/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#109097
The "gift" of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_26446/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#26446
On the gift of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_17487/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#17487
my thoughts on the "gift" of submission

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Satyr6406)

Post #: 2

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 2:41:38 AM

MistressMaamNH

Posts: 211
Joined: 8/11/2004
Status: offline

quote:

"gift (gift) n. 1. Something bestowed voluntarily and without compensation. 2. The act, right, or power of giving. 3. A talent or aptitude. [

We all know that the definitions in dictionaries are in order for a reason. Based upon definition 1, submission cannot be a gift because, when a submissive bestows this "gift", they expect something, in return. They expect our dominance. They expect a certain amount of honor to be paid that "gift"

Definitions are ordered, beginning from most common usage on down.
That does not mean that only the first definition has validity. I think that it can be agreed upon that the Lifestyle is not generally seen as mainstream, or the most "common usage." Okay, so the first one doesn't work for you...take a moment and read the second one.

"The act, right or power of giving" Can a person "gift" (perform the act; have the right to give; have the power to give) you their submission/control? I think the answer to that is a resounding "Yes"

Now for the third definition:

"Talent or aptitude" Can service and serving be one of a person's talents, or special aptitudes? Absolutely. If you've ever had more than one person submit to you, you know very well that each individual has their own unique talents or attributes that they posess, that make them different in service from the next individual.

MMNH

_____________________________

Let Me lay you softly, down onto the thorns...

(in reply to Satyr6406)

Post #: 3

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 3:20:41 AM

cuddleheart50

Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

In my opinion, submission is not a gift.

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.

(in reply to MistressMaamNH)

Post #: 4

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 3:30:04 AM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

Hello, Satyr6406,

I suppose I will take a stab at this.

This is why 'submission' s not a gift, in my opinion.

Firstly, I do not really use the word that way. I do not hand over 'my submission' in a brightly wrapped package. I am submissive. It is a part of what makes me the person I am. It is also not all of what makes me the person I am. So the word submissive, and all the other workings of that word, just describe a part of me, not something I do or something I play at, really.

So in describing myself would I say that my submission, that part of me that is submissive by nature is some sort of 'gift', like my artistic talents or some sort of psychic ability?...No. My reasoning for that part of my answer is that that interpretation of a gift, means something very different to me than something that is completely natural and not honed or improved. I have a natural talent or gift in my singing voice.... I also had to bust my butt to hone it into an art form... the actual voice itself and all that goes with it. I do not hone that ambiguous part of my personality that is submissive, nor do I really need to, it just kicks in all on its own, and it is not something I really have a choice (in many ways) to utilize or not... it is ingrained in everything that I do, to one capacity or another...it's just a part of me, again.

Lastly, I do not give anyone my submission, as if it were this very distinct and separate 'thing' which I consciously lay as an offering before someone; a gift. Though, as I have explained above, I am submissive by nature, the totality of being in or under submission to someone (though I really do not term it that way) is a multifaceted situation, none of which I would consider some sort of present to either myself or anyone else. The state of submission requires a lot of give and take between two people. It is a state of being which is brought about equally by the two people who create it, as ne can not be in submission all by themself, no matter how naturally submissive they are. To me that word is very much linked to a M/s relationship, not the submissiveness that is inherent in one of the parties in that relationship. I takes a lot from both partners, not just the submissive, as it is the (for me) Man who brings out such a profoundity of my own submissive nature to bring me to a point of total surrender to him, or submission.....

Who is that a gift for, him? or me? I always felt like I was the one who was lucky for, and had been given an immeasurable gift by where he brought me in my submission, not the other way around. But that's just my perspective.

< Message edited by puella -- 7/28/2006 3:39:17 AM >

(in reply to Satyr6406)

Post #: 5

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 4:58:03 AM

foxglove716

Posts: 648
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

I know its just semantics, but I dont liken my submission to something that can be returned for store credit at Macy's.

_____________________________

Illusion is the first of all pleasures. -Oscar Wilde

(in reply to Satyr6406)

Post #: 6

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 5:07:32 AM

impishlilhellcat

Posts: 4379
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: foxglove716

I know its just semantics, but I dont liken my submission to something that can be returned for store credit at Macy's.

This is golden and I love the way you phrased it!

_____________________________

Anyone who says they have only one life to live must not know how to read a book - Unknown

(in reply to foxglove716)

Post #: 7

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 5:14:01 AM

lunamor

Posts: 52
Joined: 6/9/2005
Status: offline

LuckyAlbatross, I just wanted to say I appreciate the list of Forum links you often provide. Thanks!
Lunamor

(in reply to impishlilhellcat)

Post #: 8

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 5:33:07 AM

cheshireboy

Posts: 217
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline

submission is a state of mind, most like insanity, often misunderstood but neverless quiet enjoyable to those that have the taste for it, hardly a gift but a good way to spend the afternoon.

cheshire

(in reply to lunamor)

Post #: 9

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 5:38:54 AM

SexyRed

Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline

It is not a gift, I hate that term. Like someone else said, how can you equate an intrinsic feeling and an exchange of energy with a gift? Labeling it so seems very pretentious to me.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!

(in reply to cheshireboy)

Post #: 10

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 7:14:35 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

Submission is indeed a gift....but it is not the dominant who has recieved the gift.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to Satyr6406)

Post #: 11

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 7:20:27 AM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

God dammit!! Not another "submission = gift" bullshit thread. No, it's not a gift. It's a part of ones personality. Calling it a gift is just romantic bullshit used to cover the harsh reality of it.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Satyr6406)

Post #: 12

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 9:59:54 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote]ORIGINAL: lunamor

LuckyAlbatross, I just wanted to say I appreciate the list of Forum links you often provide. Thanks!
Lunamor
[/quote]
My pleasure, Lunamor. I am glad you find them useful.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to lunamor)

Post #: 13

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 12:26:47 PM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

.... and of course, there is always the option of not reading and responding to any threads you are not interested in....

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

Post #: 14

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 12:41:30 PM

scottjk

Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

Okay, I'm just dumbfounded. Maybe it's all that time I spent in IRC. In IRC, there was often a lot of talk about how submission was a gift, and, frankly, the Doms that took exception to that were often pummeled for it.

Honestly, subs, just based on this initial start, you've fully restored my faith in the concept of 'intelligent sub'.

I've often kept my mouth closed regarding this topic, simply because of the inherent paradox of it. I know what submission is, I know that I savor it from a sub, and I also know the level of trust it implies, but I've often found that I felt rankled that such a thing was considered a gift, as if it was something that could be bartered, or worse something that could be given or taken at a whim. I'm still not sure what to think about it, but I do know that submission 'just is'. Just as my feelings of dominance 'just is'. It's a property, a characteristic, a victory yet no one has been defeated.

Maybe I'm just not expressing it right, but I hope some one get's what I'm thinking...

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 15

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 12:43:17 PM

SaphireLynn

Posts: 145
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline

every submissive decides who they give thier submission to so it is a precious gift that is given to another. It is the gift of themselves. Of thier loyalty.

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
~~~Anne Bronte~~~
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 16

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 2:26:13 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Many subs say their submission is a gift because that puts them in control right from the start. You better feel that you are one lucky Dom to even be considered in receiving her "gift".

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to SaphireLynn)

Post #: 17

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 2:37:56 PM

FlaProbe

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

Agreed! Along with the fact that they are not a "doormat"!

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 18

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 2:43:16 PM

FlaProbe

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

Just ones and zeros

(in reply to Satyr6406)

Post #: 19

RE: A question! - 7/28/2006 6:12:12 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

Here I go, doing what I do best (stirring the pot). Someday, I will have to take the time to figure out how to post a poll.

Submission; a "gift"?

I'll answer my own question first:

"gift (gift) n. 1. Something bestowed voluntarily and without compensation. 2. The act, right, or power of giving. 3. A talent or aptitude. [<ON.]" ... the American Heritage Dictionary

We all know that the definitions in dictionaries are in order for a reason. Based upon definition 1, submission cannot be a gift because, when a submissive bestows this "gift", they expect something, in return. They expect our dominance. They expect a certain amount of honor to be paid that "gift" (Heck, some want us to grovel for it! [good luck!]).

Now, this is not to say that submission (depending upon the submissive who bestows it) is not a treasured item and it doesn't mean that it isn't given freely but, since they expect something, in return, it canNOT be a "gift".

Just my humble opinion

I agree. If submission is indeed part of who you are...and who you are wants to be with me...then you are not giving me anything other than the "you" so often mentioned in romantic novels. But there again, you as the person you are now has the gift of "me".

If something within me makes your submission respond, then that is a response of your inner self to something within me. It is a response of your inner submissive self to my inner dominant self which often leads to outward expressions of submission and dominance on a more personal level...not a gift. This is why I have a problem with those who say that their submission must be earned. If that inner submissive doesn't respond naturally to me and who I am but instead has to be shown through some sort of ill-defined work on my part, then where is the "yielding of control...of self" to another based on what is inside them and what they show as concrete evidence of this inner self? Now, before someone flames me to a slow-roasting death, let me state the following: I "get" the whole idea of courtship and no, I am not some lazy ass who thinks that any submissive woman will, just by meeting me or hearing my voice-to-die-for or seeing my brutally handsome face, immediately fall on her knees (sighs...though they should...

) without knowing thing one about me. But I will not "earn" submission that must be made to show, can only show, through some ... in many of these cases...ill-stated dominant acts on my part.

(in reply to Satyr6406)

Post #: 20

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