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RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/27/2017 2:07:43 PM   
Musicmystery


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Don't get so worked up over things that aren't even true.

(in reply to BoscoX)
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RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/27/2017 5:28:06 PM   
Nnanji


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I'm pleased you know the truth. Perhaps you'll share with a local philosopher:

https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/08/22/alan-dershowitz-the-president-has-a-special-obligation-to-condemn-the-racist-right/


All decent Americans have an obligation to condemn the violent bigotry of the Nazi and KKK demonstrators in Charlottesville or wherever else they spew their poisonous and threatening rhetoric. But President Donald Trump has a special obligation to single out for condemnation, and distance himself from, individuals and groups that claim – even if falsely – to speak in his name, as the racist provocateurs in Charlottesville did.

David Duke, the notorious bigot, told reporters that white nationalists were working to “fulfill the promises of Donald Trump.” Richard Spencer, the founder of the Daily Stormer (a not so coded homage to the Nazi publication Der Sturmer,) attributed the growth of the ultra-nationalist alt-right to the Trump Presidency: “Obviously the alt-right has come very far in the past two years in terms of public exposure…is Donald Trump one of the major causes of that? Of course.”

Trump initially responded as follows: “We must ALL be united and condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America.” But then, following the car ramming that killed a peaceful protester, President Trump made the following statement: “We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides — on many sides.”

President Trump’s inclusion of the words “violence on many sides” – which seemed improvised – suggested to some a moral equivalence between the Nazis and the KKK, on the one hand, and those protesting and resisting them, on the other hand. Trump denied that he was suggesting any such equivalence and subsequently made the following statement: “Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including KKK, Neo-Nazis, White Supremacists, and other hate groups, are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.”

AUGUST 27, 2017 8:04 PM0
Name-Calling Critics Fail to Refute ZOA’s Concerns About McMaster
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But then a day later he seemed to double down on his attempt to be even handed in his comments about the “many sides” of this conflict. He pointed to “very fine people on both sides,” implying that Nazis and Klansmen could be “fine,” because their protests were “very legal.” Then he denounced “alt-left” groups that were “very, very violent.” Once again he blamed “both sides,” and asked rhetorically, “what about the ‘alt-left,’ that as you say, came charging at the alt-right? Don’t they have any semblance of guilt?”

David Duke immediately praised President Trump’s condemnation of the “alt- left,” thanking him “for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa.”

Finally (though nothing this President ever tweets is final,) President Trump praised the anti-racist “protestors in Boston who are speaking out against bigotry and hate.”

It is against this background that the President’s back and forth statements must be evaluated.

Even if it were true – and the evidence is to the contrary – that Black Lives Matter and Antifa were as blameworthy for Charlottesville as the Nazis and KKK, it would still be incumbent on President Trump to focus his condemnation especially on the violent racist right that claims to speak on his behalf. The hard left – which does, in part, include some violent and bigoted elements – does not purport to speak on the President’s behalf and does not claim to be trying to “fulfil the promises of Donald Trump.” To the contrary, they oppose everything he stands for.

This situation poses a delicate dilemma for President Trump. He has denounced the ideology of the violent racists on the alt-right who claim to be acting in his name –not quickly or forcefully enough. And he has declared his opposition to “racism” and specifically to “those who cause violence in its name,” who he has called “criminals” and “thugs.” He specifically included within these categories the “KKK, Neo-Nazis [and] White Supremacists,” the very groups that purport to speak in his name.

Why is that not enough? Why should he not at the same time condemn the alt-left for its violence? These are reasonable questions that require nuanced answers. Let me try to provide some.

I have long believed that it is the special responsibility of decent conservatives to expose, condemn and marginalize hard right extremists and bigots. William Buckley showed the way when he refused to defend Patrick Buchanan against charges that what he had said amounted to anti-Semitism. Other decent conservatives followed Buckley’s lead, and marginalized anti-Semites and racists who expressed bigotry in the false name of conservatism.

I also believe that it is the special responsibility of decent liberals to do the same with regard to hard left bigoted extremists. I must acknowledge, as a liberal, that we have not done as good a job as decent conservatives have done. Perhaps this is because hard left extremists often march under banners of benevolence, whereas, hard rights extremists tend not to hide their malevolence.

Consider, for example, Antifa, the radical hard left group, some of whose members violently confronted the Nazis and Klansmen in Charlottesville. As reported by the New York Times, the organization is comprised of a “diverse collection of anarchists, communists and socialists” with its “antecedents in Germany and Italy.” According to the Times, “Its adherents express disdain for mainstream liberal politics” and support “direct action” by which they mean “using force and violence,” rather than free speech and civil disobedience. Their leaders claim that violence is necessary because “it’s full on war.”

Nor is this merely rhetoric. On university campuses, particularly at Berkeley, “black-clad protestors, some of whom identified themselves as Antifa, smashed windows, threw gasoline bombs and broke into campus buildings, causing $100,000 in damage.” They model themselves on the “Weathermen” of the 1970s, who were responsible for numerous acts of violence.

They claim to be using counter-violence in defense against the violence of Neo-Nazi and Klansmen, but that is not true. They also use violence to shut down speakers with whose worldviews they disagree: they include not only right wing extremists, but also mainstream conservatives, moderate Zionists and even some liberals. They reject dialogue in favor of intimidation, and force.

As a liberal, I will not give these hard-left violent bigots a pass. It is true that the Nazis and KKK are currently more dangerous in terms of physical violence than hard left groups. (It is also true that the most violent groups by far are radical Islamic terrorists, who are not the targets of Antifa protests.) But the violence of the racist right (and radical jihadists) must not lead us to ignore the reality that Antifa and its radical allies pose real danger to the future of our nation, because of their increasing influence on university campuses where our future leaders are being educated. The recent events in Charlottesville and elsewhere have made them heroes among some mainstream liberals, who are willing to excuse their anti-liberal bigotry because they are on the barricades against fascism.

It’s far too easy to self-righteously condemn your political enemies when they step (or leap) over the line to bigotry and violence. It’s far more difficult to condemn those who share your wing, whether left or right, but who go too far. But that is what morality and decency require, as Buckley taught us.

So President Trump must stop being even handed in his condemnations. He should focus his condemnation on extreme right wing bigots who speak and act in his name, and leave it to those of us on the left to focus our condemnation on left wing extremists and bigots.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/27/2017 5:43:57 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Don't get so worked up over things that aren't even true.


oh my goodness, if ever there was a cause to say "physician heal thyself," this is one.

can I encourage you to write that on a sticky note, put it somewhere visible, and read it to yourself all day long?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/27/2017 5:45:17 PM   
Musicmystery


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Can I suggest that when you have to make shit up to "debate" it, you're probably standing on crappy ground.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/27/2017 5:48:11 PM   
bounty44


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the only place that ever occurs maniacal, is in your own inability to discern and understand.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/27/2017 6:22:45 PM   
BoscoX


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FR

ManiacalMysery will cum all over himself when he reads this one - that bad ol' mean Nazi Russian robot will NEVER go away!!!

Donald Trump 'might refuse to leave the White House when his term ends', expert warns

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-apos-might-refuse-114407319.html

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/27/2017 6:43:13 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


FR

ManiacalMysery will cum all over himself when he reads this one - that bad ol' mean Nazi Russian robot will NEVER go away!!!

Donald Trump 'might refuse to leave the White House when his term ends', expert warns

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-apos-might-refuse-114407319.html

I've been reading some crazy shit on Yahoo News recently. A whole editorial change. They must have decided to change markets.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/27/2017 11:43:59 PM   
heavyblinker


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In this thread:

Trump supporters ignore/defend Nazis, but condemn anti-Nazis as Nazis, and then post an article that says they are the ones who are really dangerous... and hint that they probably want to take over the government and eliminate free speech, free assembly, and install Big Brother.

They also suggest that asking a president to condemn Nazism is hysteria.



(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 12:04:06 AM   
heavyblinker


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Oh, also shooting a gun at some counter-protestors and killing someone with a car are non-issues.
The real issue is the threat of people who are angry about racism.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 1:24:00 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

heavyblinker
In this thread:

Trump supporters ignore/defend Nazis, but condemn anti-Nazis as Nazis, and then post an article that says they are the ones who are really dangerous... and hint that they probably want to take over the government and eliminate free speech, free assembly, and install Big Brother.

They also suggest that asking a president to condemn Nazism is hysteria.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Oh, also shooting a gun at some counter-protestors and killing someone with a car are non-issues.
The real issue is the threat of people who are angry about racism.


Yes. As that notorious liberal Alf Garnett would say: "it's bleeding obvious innit?"

As the numbers and violence of far Right terrorism grows inexorably, as emboldened neo-Nazis, the KKK and other 'good people'* crawl out of their swamps and into the public arena more often, no one should lose sight of the real threat - those pinko antifa subversives with their unAmerican agenda of denouncing hate.

Mark my words it won't be too long before they get one of their own into (gasp! shock! horror!) the White House and heaven only knows what will happen then... They might even start driving cars into assemblies of God fearing upright citizens simply trying to preserve their legitimate heritage...

Oh wait ...


* with their special personal Presidential seal of approval ...


_____________________________



(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 1:34:07 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Oh, also shooting a gun at some counter-protestors and killing someone with a car are non-issues.
The real issue is the threat of people who are angry about racism.



your antifa super heros are responsible for over 27 deaths but we dont hear anything about htat do we.

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(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 1:54:07 AM   
heavyblinker


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No, I haven't heard that, actually.
More Alex Jones?

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 2:45:41 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

No, I haven't heard that, actually.
More Alex Jones?

You will have to forgive RO his unique personal maths. He's unable to find the 6 million or so real victims of the Holocaust but he can instantly conjure up a few deaths which he attributes to antifa, without any source or supporting evidence ... magical hey?

Like I say, it's a unique personal kind of maths where 1 + 1 = whatever you want it to equal ... There's a Nobel Prize in the pipeline for this type of genius.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 6:12:44 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the only place that ever occurs maniacal, is in your own inability to discern and understand.

Naw. It's your childish foot stomping.

Take a look at this quote. Is that the post of a thinking adult? Looks more elementary school.

I think you miss Ron. He posted gibberish, and you were right there posting gibberish in response.

Now, you just seem lost.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 8:32:33 AM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

heavyblinker
In this thread:

Trump supporters ignore/defend Nazis, but condemn anti-Nazis as Nazis, and then post an article that says they are the ones who are really dangerous... and hint that they probably want to take over the government and eliminate free speech, free assembly, and install Big Brother.

They also suggest that asking a president to condemn Nazism is hysteria.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Oh, also shooting a gun at some counter-protestors and killing someone with a car are non-issues.
The real issue is the threat of people who are angry about racism.


Yes. As that notorious liberal Alf Garnett would say: "it's bleeding obvious innit?"

As the numbers and violence of far Right terrorism grows inexorably, as emboldened neo-Nazis, the KKK and other 'good people'* crawl out of their swamps and into the public arena more often, no one should lose sight of the real threat - those pinko antifa subversives with their unAmerican agenda of denouncing hate.

Mark my words it won't be too long before they get one of their own into (gasp! shock! horror!) the White House and heaven only knows what will happen then... They might even start driving cars into assemblies of God fearing upright citizens simply trying to preserve their legitimate heritage...

Oh wait ...


* with their special personal Presidential seal of approval ...


From that notorious liberal and Harvard professor (you can only dream) Alan Derahowitz.




http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/234620

quote:

But Dershowitz also noted that the American left had largely failed in this regard as well, with mainstream liberals increasingly “willing to excuse” the “anti-liberal bigotry” of “hard-left violent bigots, like the Antifa protest movement.


You should be taking care of your own. And since you refuse to do so:

From that notorious liberal Michael Moore.

https://www.fastcompany.com/40459122/michael-moore-says-trump-is-on-track-to-win-again-in-2020

Keep it up baby.


(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 8:38:39 AM   
BoscoX


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Joined: 12/10/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

You should be taking care of your own. And since you refuse to do so:

From that notorious liberal Michael Moore.

https://www.fastcompany.com/40459122/michael-moore-says-trump-is-on-track-to-win-again-in-2020

Keep it up baby.




Yep

Their childish foot stomping is on track to give this president another term


_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 8:40:37 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11239
Joined: 12/10/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

the only place that ever occurs maniacal, is in your own inability to discern and understand.

Naw. It's your childish foot stomping.

Take a look at this quote. Is that the post of a thinking adult? Looks more elementary school.

I think you miss Ron. He posted gibberish, and you were right there posting gibberish in response.

Now, you just seem lost.


It wasn't so long ago twhen you posted that your little felchgoblin buddy was "sharp"

Why the sudden change of heart

Are you lost?

_____________________________

Thought Criminal

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 8:48:27 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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FR
First Melania Trump doesn't want to live in the White House, and Donald Trump calls the White House a dump... Now Trump "might" refuse to leave? Make up our fucking minds already! It's only been 8 fucking months.


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http://www.extra-life.org/

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 9:56:14 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


FR

ManiacalMysery will cum all over himself when he reads this one - that bad ol' mean Nazi Russian robot will NEVER go away!!!

Donald Trump 'might refuse to leave the White House when his term ends', expert warns

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-apos-might-refuse-114407319.html

They said the same shit about Obama.........and Dubya.........and Clinton
SSDD Oh left hand of Mohammed?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Trump has lost his grip on reality: Editorial - 8/28/2017 10:26:11 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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~FR~

I'll form my own opinion and positions, folks.

No need to make them up for me.

And don't believe everything you read.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 40
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