RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 6:30:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Suicide by Cop is a real thing.

Most assuredly.




BamaD -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 6:34:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

sure but they come out waving a gun around if thats what they want. these guys most likely broke down the door, and why swat for a suicide? Shoot her to prevent her from shooting herself?

What should they do, send in an unarmed man without a vest. Swat goes in when there is danger
for the cops. And we still don't know anything about how anything happened.
Is it too much to ask to want to wait till we actually know what happened?




Marini -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 6:59:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

sure but they come out waving a gun around if thats what they want. these guys most likely broke down the door, and why swat for a suicide? Shoot her to prevent her from shooting herself?



I would think LONG and HARD before calling the "cops" in a situation like this.
This is happening too often these days.

Sadly, like I said before you might be better off not calling them.




vincentML -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 7:08:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

sure but they come out waving a gun around if thats what they want. these guys most likely broke down the door, and why swat for a suicide? Shoot her to prevent her from shooting herself?

What should they do, send in an unarmed man without a vest. Swat goes in when there is danger
for the cops. And we still don't know anything about how anything happened.
Is it too much to ask to want to wait till we actually know what happened?

We know the woman was fatally shot inside her own apartment. Do we really need to know more than that? And to answer your question of what should the police do: maybe they could have just waited a little longer. Is the city too impatient to wait when a life is at stake? Because surely they must know what the outcome would be when they entered the apartment so forcibly. Shame on the police, not all police, but the police in this situation for certain.




vincentML -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 7:20:19 PM)

quote:

The humanity bumped up against reality in a litigious society. I've said more than once we should leave medical care alone and socialize the legal profession. That's how local agencies have been forced to think.

I believe the police motto is to “serve and protect” not to worry about lawsuits against the city. I find your position just absolutely pathetic. And anyway I don’t believe that’s how local agencies have been forced to think. That’s just some generalization you have made up and pretend that it is valid argument. It is no such thing. You have no basis for making that observation.




vincentML -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 7:38:07 PM)

The woman shot and killed by Sunrise police after she barricaded herself in her apartment for more than three hours was named Saturday as Kristen Ambury, 28.

Police were called to the Water’s Edge apartments complex at 4 p.m. Friday after getting a call about a woman who was home alone and threatening to harm herself, said Veda Coleman-Wright, spokeswoman for the Broward Sheriff’s Office.

When they arrived at Water’s Edge, Sunrise officers learned that Ambury, who was described as suicidal, was armed, and Sunrise’s SWAT team responded to the scene, Coleman-Wright said.

When communication with the SWAT team and Ambury broke off, officers tried to enter the apartment to make sure she hadn’t harmed herself, but they encountered the armed woman and shots were fired, Coleman-Wright said. Ambury died at the scene and no officers were injured.

Residents living at the complex, just north of Oakland Park Boulevard and east of Hiatus Road, said it was a tense standoff, with as many as a dozen officers positioned near the scene and other officers at many corners.

Neighbors trying to drive to their apartments after work were denied access. Residents who had been walking outside were told by police to go inside their apartments and stay there.

One resident, who asked not to be identified, said Ambury often walked her two small dogs throughout the complex, and sometimes sat for prolonged periods near the edge of the canal behind her building.

The resident said she heard as many as five shots at about 7:30 p.m.

SUNRISE, Fla. - Kristen Ambury was a U.S. Army explosive ordnance specialist and an emergency medical technician. The 28-year-old war veteran worked for the American Heart Association, and trained others to save lives as a critical care paramedic for the American Medical Response.

The Broward College and Broward Fire Academy graduate trained to save lives. She worked with Fort Lauderdale Fire Rescue and also loved dogs. She died when The Sunrise Police Department could not help her Friday.

Ambury's death comes at a time when the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is asking for more funding. President Donald Trump appointed Dr. David Shulkin, whose father served as a U.S. Army psychiatrist, to reform the troubled VA.

Veterans returning from Afghanistan, Iraq and other hostile areas of the Middle East "are not only at high risk of homelessness, but at high risk for suicide," Shulkin said during an interview with Local 10 News earlier this year.

Shulkin also said he had the support of Trump to improve health services for veterans. The president signed into law new measures meant to accelerate the appeals process for disability claims, make it easier to get rid of ineffective VA employees, and improve access to emergency mental health assessments.

Women veterans are more likely to have to deal with the added trauma of sexual and physical abuse suffered during their service. Post-traumatic stress disorder patients tell horrific stories of sexual assault, as the military struggles to punish non-active duty and retired personnel responsible.

Sunrise police officers didn't know much about Ambury's struggles when they responded to the medical call Friday. When they couldn't help her, they got some of their best trained officers to get Ambury to leave her apartment.

Ambury's family and neighbors said they knew she was in emotional pain and was going through a rough time financially. When law enforcement arrived, Sunrise officers told BSO deputies that she was holding on to her gun. In the end, she turned to her gun.



As Igor said, this is how we treat our wounded warriors. How sad is that?

The information above is from two different sources. You will have to Google them yourself.




BamaD -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 7:40:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

sure but they come out waving a gun around if thats what they want. these guys most likely broke down the door, and why swat for a suicide? Shoot her to prevent her from shooting herself?

What should they do, send in an unarmed man without a vest. Swat goes in when there is danger
for the cops. And we still don't know anything about how anything happened.
Is it too much to ask to want to wait till we actually know what happened?

We know the woman was fatally shot inside her own apartment. Do we really need to know more than that? And to answer your question of what should the police do: maybe they could have just waited a little longer. Is the city too impatient to wait when a life is at stake? Because surely they must know what the outcome would be when they entered the apartment so forcibly. Shame on the police, not all police, but the police in this situation for certain.

We don't know how it got there so yes we do need to know more.
How log did the police wait.
Howlong should they have waited to be long enough?
Did she make threats, we don't know. You are making a lot of assumptions based on your bias, not facts.




BamaD -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 7:47:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The woman shot and killed by Sunrise police after she barricaded herself in her apartment for more than three hours was named Saturday as Kristen Ambury, 28.

Police were called to the Water’s Edge apartments complex at 4 p.m. Friday after getting a call about a woman who was home alone and threatening to harm herself, said Veda Coleman-Wright, spokeswoman for the Broward Sheriff’s Office.

When they arrived at Water’s Edge, Sunrise officers learned that Ambury, who was described as suicidal, was armed, and Sunrise’s SWAT team responded to the scene, Coleman-Wright said.

When communication with the SWAT team and Ambury broke off, officers tried to enter the apartment to make sure she hadn’t harmed herself, but they encountered the armed woman and shots were fired, Coleman-Wright said. Ambury died at the scene and no officers were injured.

Residents living at the complex, just north of Oakland Park Boulevard and east of Hiatus Road, said it was a tense standoff, with as many as a dozen officers positioned near the scene and other officers at many corners.

Neighbors trying to drive to their apartments after work were denied access. Residents who had been walking outside were told by police to go inside their apartments and stay there.

One resident, who asked not to be identified, said Ambury often walked her two small dogs throughout the complex, and sometimes sat for prolonged periods near the edge of the canal behind her building.

The resident said she heard as many as five shots at about 7:30 p.m.

SUNRISE, Fla. - Kristen Ambury was a U.S. Army explosive ordnance specialist and an emergency medical technician. The 28-year-old war veteran worked for the American Heart Association, and trained others to save lives as a critical care paramedic for the American Medical Response.

The Broward College and Broward Fire Academy graduate trained to save lives. She worked with Fort Lauderdale Fire Rescue and also loved dogs. She died when The Sunrise Police Department could not help her Friday.

Ambury's death comes at a time when the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is asking for more funding. President Donald Trump appointed Dr. David Shulkin, whose father served as a U.S. Army psychiatrist, to reform the troubled VA.

Veterans returning from Afghanistan, Iraq and other hostile areas of the Middle East "are not only at high risk of homelessness, but at high risk for suicide," Shulkin said during an interview with Local 10 News earlier this year.

Shulkin also said he had the support of Trump to improve health services for veterans. The president signed into law new measures meant to accelerate the appeals process for disability claims, make it easier to get rid of ineffective VA employees, and improve access to emergency mental health assessments.

Women veterans are more likely to have to deal with the added trauma of sexual and physical abuse suffered during their service. Post-traumatic stress disorder patients tell horrific stories of sexual assault, as the military struggles to punish non-active duty and retired personnel responsible.

Sunrise police officers didn't know much about Ambury's struggles when they responded to the medical call Friday. When they couldn't help her, they got some of their best trained officers to get Ambury to leave her apartment.

Ambury's family and neighbors said they knew she was in emotional pain and was going through a rough time financially. When law enforcement arrived, Sunrise officers told BSO deputies that she was holding on to her gun. In the end, she turned to her gun.



As Igor said, this is how we treat our wounded warriors. How sad is that?

The information above is from two different sources. You will have to Google them yourself.

So bottom line is

A the neighbors considered her enough of a threat to call police.
B The cops went in because they thought she had harmed herself. How would you be yelling if the police had sat outside while she bled out?
Then the cops would be wrong because they waited to long.
Shots were fired, sounds like the police weren't the only ones shooting now doesn't it?




vincentML -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 7:52:27 PM)

quote:

We don't know how it got there so yes we do need to know more.
How log did the police wait.
Howlong should they have waited to be long enough?
Did she make threats, we don't know. You are making a lot of assumptions based on your bias, not facts.


Why does it matter how long the police waited? What was their hurry? Why couldn’t they have waited a little bit longer? I am no expert of course but it seems to me there should’ve been other tactics that could be used instead of assaulting the barricade.

Is there no other plan for situations like this which occur all too frequently?

Stories like this really piss me off!




Real0ne -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 7:55:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The woman shot and killed by Sunrise police after she barricaded herself in her apartment for more than three hours was named Saturday as Kristen Ambury, 28.

Police were called to the Water’s Edge apartments complex at 4 p.m. Friday after getting a call about a woman who was home alone and threatening to harm herself, said Veda Coleman-Wright, spokeswoman for the Broward Sheriff’s Office.

When they arrived at Water’s Edge, Sunrise officers learned that Ambury, who was described as suicidal, was armed, and Sunrise’s SWAT team responded to the scene, Coleman-Wright said.

When communication with the SWAT team and Ambury broke off, officers tried to enter the apartment to make sure she hadn’t harmed herself, but they encountered the armed woman and shots were fired, Coleman-Wright said. Ambury died at the scene and no officers were injured.

Residents living at the complex, just north of Oakland Park Boulevard and east of Hiatus Road, said it was a tense standoff, with as many as a dozen officers positioned near the scene and other officers at many corners.

Neighbors trying to drive to their apartments after work were denied access. Residents who had been walking outside were told by police to go inside their apartments and stay there.

One resident, who asked not to be identified, said Ambury often walked her two small dogs throughout the complex, and sometimes sat for prolonged periods near the edge of the canal behind her building.

The resident said she heard as many as five shots at about 7:30 p.m.

SUNRISE, Fla. - Kristen Ambury was a U.S. Army explosive ordnance specialist and an emergency medical technician. The 28-year-old war veteran worked for the American Heart Association, and trained others to save lives as a critical care paramedic for the American Medical Response.

The Broward College and Broward Fire Academy graduate trained to save lives. She worked with Fort Lauderdale Fire Rescue and also loved dogs. She died when The Sunrise Police Department could not help her Friday.

Ambury's death comes at a time when the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is asking for more funding. President Donald Trump appointed Dr. David Shulkin, whose father served as a U.S. Army psychiatrist, to reform the troubled VA.

Veterans returning from Afghanistan, Iraq and other hostile areas of the Middle East "are not only at high risk of homelessness, but at high risk for suicide," Shulkin said during an interview with Local 10 News earlier this year.

Shulkin also said he had the support of Trump to improve health services for veterans. The president signed into law new measures meant to accelerate the appeals process for disability claims, make it easier to get rid of ineffective VA employees, and improve access to emergency mental health assessments.

Women veterans are more likely to have to deal with the added trauma of sexual and physical abuse suffered during their service. Post-traumatic stress disorder patients tell horrific stories of sexual assault, as the military struggles to punish non-active duty and retired personnel responsible.

Sunrise police officers didn't know much about Ambury's struggles when they responded to the medical call Friday. When they couldn't help her, they got some of their best trained officers to get Ambury to leave her apartment.

Ambury's family and neighbors said they knew she was in emotional pain and was going through a rough time financially. When law enforcement arrived, Sunrise officers told BSO deputies that she was holding on to her gun. In the end, she turned to her gun.



As Igor said, this is how we treat our wounded warriors. How sad is that?

The information above is from two different sources. You will have to Google them yourself.

So bottom line is

A the neighbors considered her enough of a threat to call police.
B The cops went in because they thought she had harmed herself. How would you be yelling if the police had sat outside while she bled out?
Then the cops would be wrong because they waited to long.
Shots were fired, sounds like the police weren't the only ones shooting now doesn't it?



No, more like the police went full commando on her ass.
No, they were dumb assed americans who thought the police would HELP, well they did they permanently put her out of her misery.
No, sounds like they blew her ass away plain and simple.



The witness told NBC 6 that she watched on her patio as SWAT attempted to get inside the barricaded woman’s home by ramming the door. Eventually, flash bangs were used and the door was rammed with a SWAT vehicle.

The witness said she heard five gunshot



In the United States, SWAT (Special Weapons And Tactics) is a law enforcement unit which uses specialized or military equipment and tactics.

SWAT units are often equipped with specialized firearms including submachine guns, assault rifles, breaching shotguns, sniper rifles, riot control agents, and stun grenades. In addition, they may use specialized equipment including heavy body armor, ballistic shields, entry tools, armored vehicles, night vision devices, and motion detectors for covertly determining the positions of hostages or hostage takers, inside enclosed structures.





Nnanji -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 8:12:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

The humanity bumped up against reality in a litigious society. I've said more than once we should leave medical care alone and socialize the legal profession. That's how local agencies have been forced to think.

I believe the police motto is to “serve and protect” not to worry about lawsuits against the city. I find your position just absolutely pathetic. And anyway I don’t believe that’s how local agencies have been forced to think. That’s just some generalization you have made up and pretend that it is valid argument. It is no such thing. You have no basis for making that observation.

Having spent half my career being a department head in a couple of local agencies and the other half my career on the outside dealing with them, I'm pretty sure I have a good view of how they are run and the motivations for what they do. For your information, I've always thought it was pathetic as well. But that doesn't make it any less true.

Since you're the look it up at the Supreme Court guy, look up and see what the Supreme Court says about Cops protecting you. It ain't their job. They are only required to attempt to investigate your murder after its done.

I wish I could tell you how many times I've sat on committees that were tasked to come up with a catchy job description for a city department. Many change them from time to time as new officials are elected. It's usually all bullshit to sound good for the new major.




Danemora -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 8:16:28 PM)

~FRing it~

Im just wondering out loud... if maybe SWAT got called out in this particular case because perhaps law enforcement was aware she was a military veteran...who would have a heck of a lot more specialized weapons training than a Jane American citizen like me? It breaks my heart to see our veterans in so much emotional pain and trauma that 22 of our heroes commit suicide every day or other heroes get caught up in horrible situations like this.

Im sure it was very hard for the officers as well since many are no doubt military veterans themselves. I imagine it was incredibly hard to separate that veteran brotherhood/sisterhood they no doubt share and their responsibility to uphold the law and protect life. And while they lay their lives on the line willingly, I imagine all of us can understand that they all want to go home to their families too.

The place she lived was an apartment complex from what I read, correct? Sadly bullets dont stay within the 4 walls of an apartment. Could you imagine the shitstorm that police department would have been in if one of that poor woman's accidentally fired bullets struck and killed one of her neighbors? I do realize SWAT coming in was equally putting people at risk, but I imagine neighbors were evacuated before SWAT set up. Or perhaps SWAT presence enabled a more safe way of evacuating her neighbors out of harm's way?

As for the shooting itself, that is something only the investigation determines as far as the specifics of what happened in that apartment.

Ultimately and most sadly, there is no upside to any of this. A woman lost her life and an officer(s) shot someone to death in the line of duty. A family and friends are devastated. And we as a country see how badly we are failing to honor our promises made to our veterans to take care of them after they come home.




Nnanji -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 8:35:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

~FRing it~

Im just wondering out loud... if maybe SWAT got called out in this particular case because perhaps law enforcement was aware she was a military veteran...who would have a heck of a lot more specialized weapons training than a Jane American citizen like me? It breaks my heart to see our veterans in so much emotional pain and trauma that 22 of our heroes commit suicide every day or other heroes get caught up in horrible situations like this.

Im sure it was very hard for the officers as well since many are no doubt military veterans themselves. I imagine it was incredibly hard to separate that veteran brotherhood/sisterhood they no doubt share and their responsibility to uphold the law and protect life. And while they lay their lives on the line willingly, I imagine all of us can understand that they all want to go home to their families too.

The place she lived was an apartment complex from what I read, correct? Sadly bullets dont stay within the 4 walls of an apartment. Could you imagine the shitstorm that police department would have been in if one of that poor woman's accidentally fired bullets struck and killed one of her neighbors? I do realize SWAT coming in was equally putting people at risk, but I imagine neighbors were evacuated before SWAT set up. Or perhaps SWAT presence enabled a more safe way of evacuating her neighbors out of harm's way?

As for the shooting itself, that is something only the investigation determines as far as the specifics of what happened in that apartment.

Ultimately and most sadly, there is no upside to any of this. A woman lost her life and an officer(s) shot someone to death in the line of duty. A family and friends are devastated. And we as a country see how badly we are failing to honor our promises made to our veterans to take care of them after they come home.

People don't know what cops go through. The SWAT guys will have little onus in this but I'm betting the incident commander still hasn't been home yet. The worse case senerio that could have happened here, in my mind even worse than being shot by cops, was once explained to me by my brother. It happened to him while on patrol one time. Neighbors complained of a foul smell coming from an apartment. He arrived and realized what the smell was and entered the apartment. Inside he found the occupant with his brains sprayed all over from a self inflicted shotgun wound. But worse, the guy had two dogs and after a while while of not being fed they began to eat the occupant and excrete him all over the apartment. This woman had two dogs. Had everyone just ignored the situation what my brother found could have happened. She could have died alone with nobody even noticing. I can guarantee you not one cop there wanted her dead.

It's a gross story and I'm only telling because people don't realize what cops deal with. Every time they pull up to an incident they have a lot to consider that we all get to discuss at our leisure and without the benefits of all of the facts. I'm saying again, the facts will come out. We should wait for them.




BamaD -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 8:45:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

We don't know how it got there so yes we do need to know more.
How log did the police wait.
Howlong should they have waited to be long enough?
Did she make threats, we don't know. You are making a lot of assumptions based on your bias, not facts.


Why does it matter how long the police waited? What was their hurry? Why couldn’t they have waited a little bit longer? I am no expert of course but it seems to me there should’ve been other tactics that could be used instead of assaulting the barricade.

Is there no other plan for situations like this which occur all too frequently?

Stories like this really piss me off!

You don't know but for the cops to be wrong it should have been longer, even though with the situation she could have slit her wrists and
bled out while they were waiting. All you know is you need an excuse to claim the cops were wrong. And yes it does matter how long the cops waited. Of course whatever amount of time it was you would find an excuse to claim it was wrong.
If it doesn't matter how long then you can't claim they waited the wrong amount of time. Again you just want an excuse to say they are wrong, not a reason, just an excuse.




Danemora -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 9:08:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

People don't know what cops go through. The SWAT guys will have little onus in this but I'm betting the incident commander still hasn't been home yet. The worse case senerio that could have happened here, in my mind even worse than being shot by cops, was once explained to me by my brother. It happened to him while on patrol one time. Neighbors complained of a foul smell coming from an apartment. He arrived and realized what the smell was and entered the apartment. Inside he found the occupant with his brains sprayed all over from a self inflicted shotgun wound. But worse, the guy had two dogs and after a while while of not being fed they began to eat the occupant and excrete him all over the apartment. This woman had two dogs. Had everyone just ignored the situation what my brother found could have happened. She could have died alone with nobody even noticing. I can guarantee you not one cop there wanted her dead.

It's a gross story and I'm only telling because people don't realize what cops deal with. Every time they pull up to an incident they have a lot to consider that we all get to discuss at our leisure and without the benefits of all of the facts. I'm saying again, the facts will come out. We should wait for them.


It illustrates a beautiful point despite the gritty dose of reality. Law enforcement is an eyewitness to horrible tragedies most average citizens never see. I cant even begin to imagine the toll human tragedy takes on guys like your brother. No one ever wants to see what your brother sees (saw if he isnt in it anymore)...just like Im willing to bet cash money that the officer(s) who fired the shot(s) at this sad event never woke up that morning planning to execute a poor distraught woman who wasnt in a good place.




LadyPact -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 9:09:42 PM)

MP and I disagree on this.

In my opinion, the quickest way to get a mental health appointment via Uncle Sam is to a) say you are contemplating harming yourself or b) that you are going to harm somebody else. From my view, it's not that services aren't available.

On the other hand, MP says that people won't make the phone call. He has a stronger line about how it would effect the active duty type person's career, etc. Not sure if that applies for somebody who is no longer serving, so there is no career to effect. He also says that I'm thinking logically, when the other person doesn't think that way at all.






Danemora -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 9:17:47 PM)

Legit question since Im not at all familiar with military services. What Ive heard is honestly how hard it is dealing with the VA and the number of veterans who commit suicide every day. Ill admit that perhaps Ive watched too many documentaries though. Im not military, so I honestly have no clue how it works. Are there really ways to easily get the help desperately needed in a crisis situation like that...if you can bring up the courage to speak out that you are in crisis?




Nnanji -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 9:31:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

Legit question since Im not at all familiar with military services. What Ive heard is honestly how hard it is dealing with the VA and the number of veterans who commit suicide every day. Ill admit that perhaps Ive watched too many documentaries though. Im not military, so I honestly have no clue how it works. Are there really ways to easily get the help desperately needed in a crisis situation like that...if you can bring up the courage to speak out that you are in crisis?

It depends where you are. Here in my area Vets tell me the local VA hospital is very good. A buddy, who only realized he had PTSD when he began to think about killing himself and his wife, said this local VA helped him quickly and well. That's not always the case. And generally the guy/gal has to ask. Nobody monitors them. But then my bud's experience checked off both A and B of LP's list. I've intentionally polled local vets and to a person so far they've all thought highly of this hospital.




Danemora -> RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. (8/27/2017 9:40:11 PM)

Thank you for the reply, Ninja. I appreciate it 😊




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