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RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 8/31/2017 4:20:33 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So realone used rumor, not facts. if she didn't even get out of basic, maybe she had problems all along.

I didn't say RO used rumor. The article that he linked had been updated to add more between the time he posted it and I read it.

All of the news sources are reporting that she's a vet. The link from The Herald is the only one that's saying that she might have embellished on the matter. One of these news sources shouldn't have that much difficulty looking at her DD214.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Lady Pact, I got her photo from LinkedIn.

It seems to be the same one that all of the news sources are using.

I'm just not finding anything, other than the article from The Herald, that's got any updated information.

OK, but his info does seem to be seriously flawed.

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RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 8/31/2017 5:06:54 PM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Still waiting for an answer regarding the legality of the forced entry.

An aggressive person with a weapon would constitute probable cause for a forced entry to assure safety. Primarily the safety of anyone else in the dwelling and the safety of neighbors.

I know the local officers where I live are trained to answer a few things to their satisfaction on a "domestic disturbance" call.

Is there an immediate threat to life and limb?
Who is in the dwelling?
Is anyone armed?
Is anyone injured?
Is anyone being held against their will?

I have a feeling the optimum solution in the described situation would have been the person putting the knife down and submit to apprehension and let the magistrate judge sort things out. A person acting threatening and refusing to disarm kicks in the "immediate danger to life and limb" scenario whether the person is a violent thug or a mentally challenged woman.

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Post #: 162

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 8/31/2017 5:24:48 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Still waiting for an answer regarding the legality of the forced entry.

An aggressive person with a weapon would constitute probable cause for a forced entry to assure safety. Primarily the safety of anyone else in the dwelling and the safety of neighbors.

I know the local officers where I live are trained to answer a few things to their satisfaction on a "domestic disturbance" call.

Is there an immediate threat to life and limb?
Who is in the dwelling?
Is anyone armed?
Is anyone injured?
Is anyone being held against their will?

I have a feeling the optimum solution in the described situation would have been the person putting the knife down and submit to apprehension and let the magistrate judge sort things out. A person acting threatening and refusing to disarm kicks in the "immediate danger to life and limb" scenario whether the person is a violent thug or a mentally challenged woman.

Haven't you been paying attention? According to some of our people if she is mentally disturbed she is automatically helpless, and if she injurs anyone else, particularly a cop, it is their own fault. Their first any only duty is to see to it that no matter what she does she cannot be harmed because a mentally ill person never hurt anyone unless that person was at fault.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 163

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 8/31/2017 5:44:46 PM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Still waiting for an answer regarding the legality of the forced entry.

An aggressive person with a weapon would constitute probable cause for a forced entry to assure safety. Primarily the safety of anyone else in the dwelling and the safety of neighbors.

I know the local officers where I live are trained to answer a few things to their satisfaction on a "domestic disturbance" call.

Is there an immediate threat to life and limb?
Who is in the dwelling?
Is anyone armed?
Is anyone injured?
Is anyone being held against their will?

I have a feeling the optimum solution in the described situation would have been the person putting the knife down and submit to apprehension and let the magistrate judge sort things out. A person acting threatening and refusing to disarm kicks in the "immediate danger to life and limb" scenario whether the person is a violent thug or a mentally challenged woman.

Haven't you been paying attention? According to some of our people if she is mentally disturbed she is automatically helpless, and if she injurs anyone else, particularly a cop, it is their own fault. Their first any only duty is to see to it that no matter what she does she cannot be harmed because a mentally ill person never hurt anyone unless that person was at fault.

Nobody said any of that. You are fabricating like mad.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Post #: 164

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 8/31/2017 5:48:07 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Still waiting for an answer regarding the legality of the forced entry.

An aggressive person with a weapon would constitute probable cause for a forced entry to assure safety. Primarily the safety of anyone else in the dwelling and the safety of neighbors.

I know the local officers where I live are trained to answer a few things to their satisfaction on a "domestic disturbance" call.

Is there an immediate threat to life and limb?
Who is in the dwelling?
Is anyone armed?
Is anyone injured?
Is anyone being held against their will?

I have a feeling the optimum solution in the described situation would have been the person putting the knife down and submit to apprehension and let the magistrate judge sort things out. A person acting threatening and refusing to disarm kicks in the "immediate danger to life and limb" scenario whether the person is a violent thug or a mentally challenged woman.

Haven't you been paying attention? According to some of our people if she is mentally disturbed she is automatically helpless, and if she injurs anyone else, particularly a cop, it is their own fault. Their first any only duty is to see to it that no matter what she does she cannot be harmed because a mentally ill person never hurt anyone unless that person was at fault.

Nobody said any of that. You are fabricating like mad.

You have repeatedly stated that they need to protect the safety of the mentally ill. In this thread Igor stated that she was helpless.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 165

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 8/31/2017 5:57:26 PM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Still waiting for an answer regarding the legality of the forced entry.

An aggressive person with a weapon would constitute probable cause for a forced entry to assure safety. Primarily the safety of anyone else in the dwelling and the safety of neighbors.

I know the local officers where I live are trained to answer a few things to their satisfaction on a "domestic disturbance" call.

Is there an immediate threat to life and limb?
Who is in the dwelling?
Is anyone armed?
Is anyone injured?
Is anyone being held against their will?

I have a feeling the optimum solution in the described situation would have been the person putting the knife down and submit to apprehension and let the magistrate judge sort things out. A person acting threatening and refusing to disarm kicks in the "immediate danger to life and limb" scenario whether the person is a violent thug or a mentally challenged woman.

Haven't you been paying attention? According to some of our people if she is mentally disturbed she is automatically helpless, and if she injurs anyone else, particularly a cop, it is their own fault. Their first any only duty is to see to it that no matter what she does she cannot be harmed because a mentally ill person never hurt anyone unless that person was at fault.

Nobody said any of that. You are fabricating like mad.

You have repeatedly stated that they need to protect the safety of the mentally ill. In this thread Igor stated that she was helpless.

I never said that was their first and only duty! Go back and take a serious look at the OP. I am talking about establishing protocol on how to deal with the mentally ill without harming them. That’s a long way from the nonsense you just vomited.

And frankly I don’t see what difference it makes that the poor woman lied about her military history. Just another indicator that she had mental problems. She is no less dead nor more dead for having embellished.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Post #: 166

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 8/31/2017 6:29:13 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Still waiting for an answer regarding the legality of the forced entry.

An aggressive person with a weapon would constitute probable cause for a forced entry to assure safety. Primarily the safety of anyone else in the dwelling and the safety of neighbors.

I know the local officers where I live are trained to answer a few things to their satisfaction on a "domestic disturbance" call.

Is there an immediate threat to life and limb?
Who is in the dwelling?
Is anyone armed?
Is anyone injured?
Is anyone being held against their will?

I have a feeling the optimum solution in the described situation would have been the person putting the knife down and submit to apprehension and let the magistrate judge sort things out. A person acting threatening and refusing to disarm kicks in the "immediate danger to life and limb" scenario whether the person is a violent thug or a mentally challenged woman.

Haven't you been paying attention? According to some of our people if she is mentally disturbed she is automatically helpless, and if she injurs anyone else, particularly a cop, it is their own fault. Their first any only duty is to see to it that no matter what she does she cannot be harmed because a mentally ill person never hurt anyone unless that person was at fault.

Nobody said any of that. You are fabricating like mad.

You have repeatedly stated that they need to protect the safety of the mentally ill. In this thread Igor stated that she was helpless.

I never said that was their first and only duty! Go back and take a serious look at the OP. I am talking about establishing protocol on how to deal with the mentally ill without harming them. That’s a long way from the nonsense you just vomited.

And frankly I don’t see what difference it makes that the poor woman lied about her military history. Just another indicator that she had mental problems. She is no less dead nor more dead for having embellished.

You insist that the problem is that the police don't handle these things so that the mentally ill
come out unscathed. Now if it the responsibility to see that these things don't happen that makes
them responsible for the welfare of the mentally ill. You have stated that if a person is mentally ill the police have no business
defending themselves remember stating that since a person the cop could not use force when attacked
with a baseball bat. That may not be your intent but that is how you come across. As far as her having lied
about her service that shows that her problems didn't just start but you expect to cops to snap their fingers and poof they have a solution.
And we still don't know what went into the decision making process but it doesn't matter you know the cops were wrong.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 167

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 8/31/2017 8:08:08 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

Still waiting for an answer regarding the legality of the forced entry.

An aggressive person with a weapon would constitute probable cause for a forced entry to assure safety. Primarily the safety of anyone else in the dwelling and the safety of neighbors.

I know the local officers where I live are trained to answer a few things to their satisfaction on a "domestic disturbance" call.

Is there an immediate threat to life and limb?
Who is in the dwelling?
Is anyone armed?
Is anyone injured?
Is anyone being held against their will?

I have a feeling the optimum solution in the described situation would have been the person putting the knife down and submit to apprehension and let the magistrate judge sort things out. A person acting threatening and refusing to disarm kicks in the "immediate danger to life and limb" scenario whether the person is a violent thug or a mentally challenged woman.

Haven't you been paying attention? According to some of our people if she is mentally disturbed she is automatically helpless, and if she injurs anyone else, particularly a cop, it is their own fault. Their first any only duty is to see to it that no matter what she does she cannot be harmed because a mentally ill person never hurt anyone unless that person was at fault.

Nobody said any of that. You are fabricating like mad.

Direct quote from you
The situation is not out of hand as long as there is still breath of life in the patient. And, most often these weird events are only temporary. This at least we can expect from the police: keep the patient alive.
the mentally ill have police targets on their back post 34

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)

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Post #: 168

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 9/1/2017 12:46:08 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I never said that was their first and only duty! Go back and take a serious look at the OP. I am talking about establishing protocol on how to deal with the mentally ill without harming them. That’s a long way from the nonsense you just vomited.

And frankly I don’t see what difference it makes that the poor woman lied about her military history. Just another indicator that she had mental problems. She is no less dead nor more dead for having embellished.

I was going to trim to just the second paragraph but I didn't want anyone to think I was attempting to alter the post to misrepresent the intention.

In my opinion, it makes a huge difference on several levels. The most prominent being that it would mean that she might have been considered more dangerous than she actually was. If her qualifications with explosives were exaggerated to her neighbors, that same exaggeration might have been a part of the neighbor's 911 call, which means bad information was given via dispatch. Potentially, this leads to a heightened sense of danger about the whole situation. The knowledge/ability to blow people up is kind of serious. That's over and above the person being weapons and combat qualified.

A close second being, are we looking at a case of a service member falling through the cracks, and if so, why are we doing such a miserable job at this? Is this an extreme example of a serious gap in what is covered by the Veteran's Administration?

Third, and this one is kind of personal, how crappy would it be for this woman's family to have her service denied, if that's not really how it went?

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Post #: 169

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 9/1/2017 3:47:18 AM

ThatDizzyChick

Posts: 5490
Status: offline

quote:

An aggressive person with a weapon would constitute probable cause for a forced entry to assure safety.

How is staying in your own apartment and threatening to harm nobody being aggressive?

quote:

Is there an immediate threat to life and limb?
Who is in the dwelling?
Is anyone armed?
Is anyone injured?
Is anyone being held against their will?

In this case the answers are
No
Only her
Maybe
No
No
So where is the justification to break into the apartment and murder the woman?

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Post #: 170

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 9/1/2017 6:58:50 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
I never said that was their first and only duty! Go back and take a serious look at the OP. I am talking about establishing protocol on how to deal with the mentally ill without harming them. That’s a long way from the nonsense you just vomited.

And frankly I don’t see what difference it makes that the poor woman lied about her military history. Just another indicator that she had mental problems. She is no less dead nor more dead for having embellished.

I was going to trim to just the second paragraph but I didn't want anyone to think I was attempting to alter the post to misrepresent the intention.

In my opinion, it makes a huge difference on several levels. The most prominent being that it would mean that she might have been considered more dangerous than she actually was. If her qualifications with explosives were exaggerated to her neighbors, that same exaggeration might have been a part of the neighbor's 911 call, which means bad information was given via dispatch. Potentially, this leads to a heightened sense of danger about the whole situation. The knowledge/ability to blow people up is kind of serious. That's over and above the person being weapons and combat qualified.

A close second being, are we looking at a case of a service member falling through the cracks, and if so, why are we doing such a miserable job at this? Is this an extreme example of a serious gap in what is covered by the Veteran's Administration?

Third, and this one is kind of personal, how crappy would it be for this woman's family to have her service denied, if that's not really how it went?

You bring up some very good points and there are several unknowns here but bottom line, I get the impression the police knew they were dealing with a mentally ill woman, they negotiated with her for some time, and then when they decided to enter they entered as a SWAT team. I wonder if the militarization of local police is not the source of the more brutal action on their part. It seems to me they could have de- escalated the situation, pulled back, and let it play out a little longer. The notion that because she was allegedly an explosives expert raised the imminent danger that she would destroy the world around her is a little far-fetched.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Post #: 171

RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 9/5/2017 8:43:27 PM

Real0ne

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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fr

It was at 7:22pm Friday evening, August 25, 2017 that our little angel, Kristen Marie Ambury was finally at peace. Kristen a beautiful and bright young woman was seen by all around her as a lady with endless possibilities, although at times Kristen didn’t see it herself. After many years of dealing and coping with what she considered a lack of acceptance and not being able to feel comfortable in her own skin, she was ready to transition into the next life where she knew she would not only fit in but where she would feel loved and accepted by all. Unfortunately, Kristen wasn’t able to make things work out the way she had hoped for and her life was ended far to soon due to a very unfortunate act. Kristen was born on February 25, 1989 in Charleston, South Carolina a daughter to her very proud and accepting parents, John Patrick Ambury, Jr and Judith Lynn Weir Ambury. Growing up Kristen clearly felt a need to help others and had such compassion in doing so that she decided to not only go into the service and served in the US Army for a short stint but later went on to Broward College where she obtained her degree and became a licensed paramedic. Up until the last breath of air Kristen drew she dedicated her life to always helping others around her first and foremost and often at times forgetting to help herself. She will be remembered and cherished always by her parents, John Patrick Ambury, Jr. and Judith Lynn Weir Ambury; her brother and sister-in-law, Jonathon(Melanie) Ambury; maternal grandmother, Nancy Weir; paternal grandfather, John Patrick Ambury, Sr.; aunt, Debbie and Tom Mcginnis-Cousins, Katie, Allison and Zack; Aunts and uncle: Tom and Melissa Weir- cousins Jonathan(Dominique) Weir and Justin Weir; Aunt and uncles: Debbie and Tom McGinnis, -cousins, Katie, Allison and Zack; aunt and uncles Mike, Sr. and Susan, - cousins, Mike, Jr and (Shannon)- Alexandra and Kyle Ambury; Aunt and uncles Tom and Becky Ambury – cousins, Ryan and Lauren.; and a far greater host of friends than Kristen ever could have imagined. Kristen now waits in her eternal life next to her maternal grandfather and best friend, Lawrence K. Weir and her paternal grandmother, Frances Ambury, where they will remain waiting with open arms for those who have yet to come, but all will soon be reunited again. Honoring Kristen’s life wishes, she will be cremated and will be set free. The family will plan and hold services for Kristen at a date that will be convenient for them.

Online condolences may be sent to the family at KalisMcInte.com

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RE: Police shoot and kill woman threatening suicide. - 9/5/2017 8:50:24 PM

Real0ne

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why am I not fuckiing surprzed that we have not hear a peep from those assholes about any investigation as we are on what 2 weeks, must be having a god damned hard time making up the facts since these shootings only a couple days to investigate, unless of course they are covering shit up, then it takes weeks months or even years.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Post #: 173