Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse!


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! Page: <<   < prev  3 4 5 [6] 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/2/2017 8:08:38 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yep. A police officer "who simply didn't know the law" should turn in his badge and gun.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Ask any arresting officer or judge.

yeh except if you are a judge, its part of their job to be ignorant of the law.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/2/2017 8:53:57 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
see the difference between "the cop didn't know the law" and "its POSSIBLE that the cop didn't know the law"

The difference is one that had no impact on his behaviour, and will only become an issue in the event of his department and/or the nurse he attempted to arrest in defiance of the law taking legal action against him.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/2/2017 2:06:39 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I knew he'd split that hair.

And that he'd miss the point that it really makes no difference.

Next time you're pulled over, try ignorance of the law and see how that works out for you. Oh, tell the judge too.

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/4/2017 2:13:44 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		more, and/or missing information:

https://townhall.com/columnists/shawnmitchell/2017/09/04/after-nurse-assault-salt-lake-city-makes-the-bleeding-worse-n2376927

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/4/2017 3:01:02 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		This is from the Rigby Police force regarding the victim of the crash that the nurse was protecting.
Press Release 2017-05
September 1, 2017
To all outlets
On July 26th of this year, one of our reserve officers, William Gray was the victim in a horrific accident in northern Utah while working his full-time job as a truck driver. The suspect in this incident was fleeing from Utah State Highway Patrol, when he crossed into oncoming traffic and collided head on with Gray’s truck, severely injuring Gray, and killing himself. Officer Gray was flown to the University of Utah’s burn unit where he remains under their watchful, professional, and competent care.
Within the first hours of Officer Gray being admitted into the burn unit, an incident occurred between hospital staff and an officer from an agency in Utah who was assisting with the investigation. The Rigby Police Department was not aware of this incident until August 31st, 2017. The Rigby Police Department would like to thank the nurse involved and hospital staff for standing firm, and protecting Officer Gray’s rights as a patient and victim. Protecting the rights of others is truly a heroic act.
The Rigby Police Department would also like to acknowledge the hard work of the involved agencies, and trusts that this unfortunate incident will be investigated thoroughly, and appropriate action will be taken.
It is important to remember that Officer Gray is the victim in this horrible event, and that at no time was he under any suspicion of wrongdoing. As he continues to heal, we would ask that his family be given privacy, respect, and prayers for continued recovery and peace.
https://www.facebook.com/RigbyPoliceID/posts/1283530118423671


THe victims a cop, IN A BURN unit, and he demands(and the station cop) blood? Not a job for anyone but a complete professional, and patient in a coma...nah, stinks, and always will.
good god.
Now I can completely understand his agitation if he knew that the victim was a fellow cop.
His violence no.
Someone needs to tell the cops when the SCOTUS makes a decision like this too.
I also wonder how many others "rights" from blood draws while unconscious have occurred.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/4/2017 4:16:15 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

more, and/or missing information:

https://townhall.com/columnists/shawnmitchell/2017/09/04/after-nurse-assault-salt-lake-city-makes-the-bleeding-worse-n2376927

There wasn't any new or missing info, but I did appreciate how the article highlighted questions that need to be answered.

But it still did not address the issue as a constitutional right that the detective was ignoring. Policy is different then a right, and as the Court has stated that the blood draw would have been unconstitutional, departmental policies and conflicting state laws are irrelevant.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/4/2017 6:50:03 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		One thing to note is that the police officer did have a compelling reason to acquire a blood sample, 49CFR382.303.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/382.303
DOT requires post accident testing on any Commercial Driver's Licensed driver for alcohol and drugs. There are time after the accident requirements for the testing. The testing is done via the law enforcement agency (whether federal, state, or local) that is investigating the accident.

The officer did not explain why he needed the blood sample worth a crap but climbed on a high horse that he had been tasked with getting the sample. If the reason why, a federal legal requirement, had been explained; the HIPAA requirements of the hospital might well have been met. I think the officer needs some serious instruction on how to communicate.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/4/2017 6:54:02 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Oh, yeah, you agree to pre-employment testing, random drug screening, testing upon license renewal, and post incident testing when you get your CDL So the unconscious patient had already given permission for testing when he got his CDL.

Again, really effed up lack of communication on the part of the police department to the hospital.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/4/2017 8:17:24 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

One thing to note is that the police officer did have a compelling reason to acquire a blood sample, 49CFR382.303.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/382.303
DOT requires post accident testing on any Commercial Driver's Licensed driver for alcohol and drugs. There are time after the accident requirements for the testing. The testing is done via the law enforcement agency (whether federal, state, or local) that is investigating the accident.

The officer did not explain why he needed the blood sample worth a crap but climbed on a high horse that he had been tasked with getting the sample. If the reason why, a federal legal requirement, had been explained; the HIPAA requirements of the hospital might well have been met. I think the officer needs some serious instruction on how to communicate.

It would be interesting to see what the outcome would be if that were tested in court, considering the SCOTUS ruling. The ruling addressed the implied consent laws many states have, but I don't think it addressed employment consent laws. That's a different issue.

But yes, the officer screwed up in every possible way imaginable. And it was just announced that because it this the hospital has changed their policy regarding nurses dealing with cops-they no longer will. Nurses will no longer be a point of contact for law enforcement.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/4/2017 9:04:47 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Implied consent is different from prior permission.
A common item in employment agreements I sign. Words to the effect of:
"By accepting employment at XXXX nuclear facility; I consent to have my person and vehicle searched should security warrant. I agree to provide samples for drug and alcohol screening within one hour of being informed one is requested."

Most states have a codicil in the paperwork you sign when getting a Commercial Driver's License stating you agree to provide drug and alcohol samples when asked. That can be interpreted as "prior permission".

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 12:45:36 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline 		Two new interesting points
From article #1, the police department that requested the blood draw has gone on record stating that prior to arresting the nurse, they told the detective not to worry about it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-officer-arrested-nurse-being-told-let-183431072.html

Excerpts
A Utah police officer whose rough arrest of a hospital nurse has drawn condemnation put the woman in handcuffs even after investigators told him not to worry about getting a blood sample he was seeking from a patient, the chief whose department asked for it said Friday.

Officers initially wanted the sample as a routine part of a car crash investigation, said Logan Police Chief Gary Jensen. But after Salt Lake City Police detective Jeff Payne was told he'd need a warrant or formal consent to get it, colleagues told him that they would pursue another strategy.

"He simply said, 'Don't worry about it. We'll go another way,'" Jensen said.

Payne nevertheless insisted. When nurse Alex Wubbels held her ground based on the University of Utah hospital's policy, Payne dragged her screaming from the hospital in handcuffs.

AND


Though Gray wasn't suspected of wrongdoing, officers routinely test everyone involved in serious accidents to make sure they've investigated every aspect of the crash, Jensen said.

Logan police asked for help from Salt Lake City police because the hospital was so far away, and Payne was sent there because he belonged to a unit trained to perform blood draws.

Police body camera video shows Payne telling his supervisor he's discussed the situation with Logan police and that they're not angry about not getting the blood immediately.


And interesting point #2-after the video was released, he was fired from his second job as an ambulance driver, due to comments he made on camera.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/utah-cop-arrested-nurse-over-blood-draw-fired-002526060.html

Jeff Payne was terminated from his job at Gold Cross Ambulance service over comments he made while taking nurse Alex Wubbels into custody on July 26 which were captured on his body camera, Gold Cross president Mike Moffitt told Reuters.

The comments suggested that Payne would bring transients to University of Utah Hospital, where Wubbels worked, while transporting "good" patients to another facility, Moffitt said.

"Those remarks are just not reflective of our company's philosophy and the service we provide and because of that behavior we felt we had to separate ways," Moffitt said. "His comments reflected poorly on the company and violated several company policies."

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 12:51:58 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Implied consent is different from prior permission.
A common item in employment agreements I sign. Words to the effect of:
"By accepting employment at XXXX nuclear facility; I consent to have my person and vehicle searched should security warrant. I agree to provide samples for drug and alcohol screening within one hour of being informed one is requested."

Most states have a codicil in the paperwork you sign when getting a Commercial Driver's License stating you agree to provide drug and alcohol samples when asked. That can be interpreted as "prior permission".

I understand that. But how many people are aware of that? Do hospital personnel routinely know about this, and are they legally required to comply? Because I have to say, if I were a nurse, and I am aware of the SCOTUS decision that says you need an arrest, a warrant, or patient consent, and someone comes to me and says that a CDL gives consent, I would still hesitate to comply. Does that CDL stipulation carry a legal obligation by others who are not the CDL holder? Even if this was the reason the police wanted the blood draw, and it was explained to the nurse, can she be lawfully arrested for not complying?


(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 1:30:03 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Implied consent is different from prior permission.
A common item in employment agreements I sign. Words to the effect of:
"By accepting employment at XXXX nuclear facility; I consent to have my person and vehicle searched should security warrant. I agree to provide samples for drug and alcohol screening within one hour of being informed one is requested."

Most states have a codicil in the paperwork you sign when getting a Commercial Driver's License stating you agree to provide drug and alcohol samples when asked. That can be interpreted as "prior permission".

I understand that. But how many people are aware of that? Do hospital personnel routinely know about this, and are they legally required to comply? Because I have to say, if I were a nurse, and I am aware of the SCOTUS decision that says you need an arrest, a warrant, or patient consent, and someone comes to me and says that a CDL gives consent, I would still hesitate to comply. Does that CDL stipulation carry a legal obligation by others who are not the CDL holder? Even if this was the reason the police wanted the blood draw, and it was explained to the nurse, can she be lawfully arrested for not complying?



You don't see anything being explained to the nurse in that clip, though: just demands followed by a tantrum.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 1:32:19 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline 		I know that. But the subject of prior permission with a CDL was brought up, so I posted a hypothetical situation.

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 1:33:51 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline 		My bad, I thought you were making an analogy with this specific incident rather than hypothesising in more general terms.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 2:45:32 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

I know that. But the subject of prior permission with a CDL was brought up, so I posted a hypothetical situation.

All the cop apologists keep bringing up
"Implied Consent"

They seem to forget that "Implied Consent" means you can STILL refuse the fucking test.
You just lose your license for a specified time (or forever in the case of a CDL).

Any fucking 16-year-old who has gotten a DL has this explained to them but our posters can't understand the fucking concept.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 2:53:52 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3662
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: online 		The nurse has the hospital's resources at her disposal to help with any legal questions. There's a nurse administrator or supervisor on the clock at all times in most hospitals. And HEPPA is more important to medical professionals than implied consent laws of any sort.

If Utah law wanted cops to obtain blood samples badly enough, then it would authorize them to do it themselves, and provide the training to do so. The nurse as a third party has no legal obligation to help the officer in this case, because there was no warrant requiring it.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 3:51:56 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

My bad, I thought you were making an analogy with this specific incident rather than hypothesising in more general terms.

No problems

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 3:55:55 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

I know that. But the subject of prior permission with a CDL was brought up, so I posted a hypothetical situation.

All the cop apologists keep bringing up
"Implied Consent"

They seem to forget that "Implied Consent" means you can STILL refuse the fucking test.
You just lose your license for a specified time (or forever in the case of a CDL).

Any fucking 16-year-old who has gotten a DL has this explained to them but our posters can't understand the fucking concept.

Implied consent is irrelevant anyway. Court ruled it unconstitutional. However, actually granting prior permission may or may not be treated differently, as it is a special kind of license.


(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! - 9/9/2017 4:01:02 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The nurse has the hospital's resources at her disposal to help with any legal questions. There's a nurse administrator or supervisor on the clock at all times in most hospitals. And HEPPA is more important to medical professionals than implied consent laws of any sort.

If Utah law wanted cops to obtain blood samples badly enough, then it would authorize them to do it themselves, and provide the training to do so. The nurse as a third party has no legal obligation to help the officer in this case, because there was no warrant requiring it.

Actually, Utah does train certain officers on drawing blood, and the detective that was on this case was chosen specifically for that reason. He was a member of the blood draw unit.

That does not mean that the hospital has to cooperate with him and let him draw it. In fact, doing so would probably be illegal unless he has some sort of privilege there, which he didn't. The blood draw unit probably serves for drawing blood at scenes, rather than in the hospital.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 5 [6] 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Bat shit crazy cop arrests nurse! Page: <<   < prev  3 4 5 [6] 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109