quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The guy in Vegas bought 33 guns in the last year, that should have raised flags on a system somewhere, and would have IF the system was set up right.

Yeah, apparently he did it slowly and in several states. But yes, there's a flaw in the system that can and should be addressed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Strange that 90 % of those "preventable" deaths are not from another person directly causing their deaths,
Smoking, check
Obesity, check
Alcohol Check
Infectious diseases.while infectious people can be the cause of a death, it isnt a direct result of malice/anger/hate (unless you are talking about someone who knowingly passes around death.)
Toxins, poisons...can be either. check
Motor vehicles too many variables to class as "preventable or unregulated"
Firearms deaths, 11,000 per year murdered by someone wielding a gun. 20,000 deaths by suicide, vast difference.
Sexually transmitted infections are almost the same as infectious diseases. Very few people weaponize their infections. so check sorta
Drug abuse check.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Strange that 90 % of those "preventable" deaths are not from another person directly causing their deaths,
Smoking, check
Obesity, check
Alcohol Check
Infectious diseases.while infectious people can be the cause of a death, it isnt a direct result of malice/anger/hate (unless you are talking about someone who knowingly passes around death.)
Toxins, poisons...can be either. check
Motor vehicles too many variables to class as "preventable or unregulated"
Firearms deaths, 11,000 per year murdered by someone wielding a gun. 20,000 deaths by suicide, vast difference.
Sexually transmitted infections are almost the same as infectious diseases. Very few people weaponize their infections. so check sorta
Drug abuse check.

Please remember this post when you quote stats that include suicide deaths by gun, k?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
I dont use stats that include suicide deaths by gun, Unless we are discussing gun suicide, veterans suicides, or bullying.
Separation of murder and suicide is important.
Preventable deaths, are ignored until they can be used against gun murders.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
She seems to have made an effort to distinguish between the two?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lucy, you admit that 11000 gun deaths are a direct result of a criminal act, which then means you have to acknowledge that those guns were not all purchased legally or owned legally, correct?
Sorry, you are putting positions in my mouth again, stop doing it.
Yet, you still seem to advocate the passage of laws and regulations that directly impact those gun owners who legally purchase, use and otherwise own guns.
Sorry, you are putting positions in my mouth again, stop doing it.

This is the point that bothers me, since there are over 187 million legal gun owners in the US, which is 57% of the US population, that the rights of these people (including myself) do not matter in the slightest, even when there is a damn good possibility that if the one serious flaw and a few minor ones are addressed, that number of 11000 dead at the hands of a person with a gun could be reduced.

Would it not make sense, in a free society, that the flaws be addressed first before stepping on the rights of the people who are not breaking the law or circumventing it?Sorry, you are putting positions in my mouth again, stop doing it.

Especially when the one group that is considered the most vile and evil gun advocacy groups (they arent, as I have tried repeatedly to explain) actually endorses strict regulation or outright ban of devices such as bump stocks?Sorry, you are putting positions in my mouth again, stop doing it.

Dies this fact even matter: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware.

The US must be doing something right, and could do more, but I and others advocate starting with dealing with the known problems with the present laws before diminishing the rights of law abiding citizens or removing them altogether.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I think it's fair to say this particular guy was not interested in following the law.

Since he was able to circumvent it -- there's a flaw in the system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Music,

55% of Americans support stricter back ground checks, I am one of those people.

However, and I wish to point this out, a stricter back ground check wont work unless the system is changed, meaning every court and mental health provider be required by federal law to report any condition of a person that would put them in the prohibit to purchase category.

The fact that it isnt seems lost on just about every gun control advocate here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Music,

55% of Americans support stricter back ground checks, I am one of those people.

However, and I wish to point this out, a stricter back ground check wont work unless the system is changed, meaning every court and mental health provider be required by federal law to report any condition of a person that would put them in the prohibit to purchase category.

The fact that it isnt seems lost on just about every gun control advocate here.

How about this, yes it is illegal to buy a gun in a state where you are not a resident, so you have to either buy it online (which means a background check is run) and have it shipped to a licensed dealer.

But, when that back ground check is run, and if the purchaser does not show up and gets a 'proceed with sale' result, did you know, by internet or in person, at no point does the system ask if sale were made?

Once the back ground check comes back, that is where it stops as far as the ATF is concerned, or I should say, the system that runs the back ground check actually. The ATF actually has a few conditions that raise flags on multiple sales over a certain number.

Then there the gun registration problem.

There are those who say gun registration is the first step to confiscation, which in my opinion is a stretch, since unless the 2nd amendment is repealed or some president decides to completely ignore the constitution and do something bizarre, it cant happen.

Unless, the gun owner's status changes from legally allowed to own guns to prohibited. In which case, the Federal gun laws already have that covered, the owner has time to legally dispose (sell) or turn them in, before he can be charged with an illegal possession of firearm crime.

Hell the necessary paper work is already filled out at time of purchase, so why not just input it into a computer at the federal level, accessible by local law enforcement when they have a legitimate reason to access a citizens' records.

As it stands now, gun retailers have to keep those records on file, both paper and computerized for years.

However, my problem with gun registration is a little different, since for some fucked up reason, most states that have registration laws seem to want to allow every newspaper or individual access to the list, and in New York a few years ago, one such newspaper went so far as to publish the list.

I feel the information should be available to law enforcement only, right to privacy etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Lucy, you admit that 11000 gun deaths are a direct result of a criminal act, which then means you have to acknowledge that those guns were not all purchased legally or owned legally, correct?
Sorry, you are putting positions in my mouth again, stop doing it.
Yet, you still seem to advocate the passage of laws and regulations that directly impact those gun owners who legally purchase, use and otherwise own guns.
Sorry, you are putting positions in my mouth again, stop doing it.

This is the point that bothers me, since there are over 187 million legal gun owners in the US, which is 57% of the US population, that the rights of these people (including myself) do not matter in the slightest, even when there is a damn good possibility that if the one serious flaw and a few minor ones are addressed, that number of 11000 dead at the hands of a person with a gun could be reduced.

Would it not make sense, in a free society, that the flaws be addressed first before stepping on the rights of the people who are not breaking the law or circumventing it?Sorry, you are putting positions in my mouth again, stop doing it.

Especially when the one group that is considered the most vile and evil gun advocacy groups (they arent, as I have tried repeatedly to explain) actually endorses strict regulation or outright ban of devices such as bump stocks?Sorry, you are putting positions in my mouth again, stop doing it.

Dies this fact even matter: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware.

The US must be doing something right, and could do more, but I and others advocate starting with dealing with the known problems with the present laws before diminishing the rights of law abiding citizens or removing them altogether.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I think it's fair to say this particular guy was not interested in following the law.

Since he was able to circumvent it -- there's a flaw in the system.

I'm saying he probably didn't circumvent the law. The first thing you have to do when you buy a gun is whip out your government issued ID. No FFL dealer anywhere will jeopardize his business to sell a gun. I don't know how he did it, details haven't been published. But, I'm betting he bought the guns legally or if he broke the law it was by having a drivers license in more than one state. I'll watch for the details to be published rather than speculate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Anyone can attempt to put words in my mouth.
Doesnt mean I have to allow it to go unchallenged.
Has to?
who put you in charge of lying like a douche bag?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Anyone can attempt to put words in my mouth.
Doesnt mean I have to allow it to go unchallenged.
Has to?
who put you in charge of lying like a douche bag?