Oh! That Wacky DNC (Full Version)

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DaddySatyr -> Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 5:13:20 AM)


Tom Perez, Chairman of the DNC (and former holder of various other government posts), lecturing in Indiana declared:

"The Electoral College is not a creation of the Constitution. It doesn't have to be there."

Oh, poor Mr. Perez obviously never read as far as Art. II



Michael




servantforuse -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 5:39:50 AM)

Tom Perez will be a gift to the republicans that keeps on giving.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 5:41:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Tom Perez will be a gift to the republicans that keeps on giving.



I was for Rep. Ellison (Ellerson?) for exactly that reason, but I think Perez may fit the bill.



Michael




servantforuse -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 5:44:52 AM)

Can't wait till November of 2018.




BoscoX -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 5:54:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Tom Perez will be a gift to the republicans that keeps on giving.


He is the perfect mouthpiece for the howler party




DaddySatyr -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 6:57:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Tom Perez will be a gift to the republicans that keeps on giving.



He is the perfect mouthpiece for the howler party



Part of my daily prayers is for the Dumbocrats to nominate Bernie Sanders (or that Ellison dude) in 2020



Michael




jlf1961 -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 9:12:25 AM)

Rates right up there with former NJ governor candidate Christine O'Donnell, who famously made the claim that there was no separation of church and state in the Constitution.

She is a republican by the way.

Noted republicans that have also made the claim:
Michele Bachmann
Rep. Jody Hice

But hey, its only the first amendment, right?




DaddySatyr -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 11:07:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Rates right up there with former NJ governor candidate Christine O'Donnell, who famously made the claim that there was no separation of church and state in the Constitution.



Can YOU show me the phrase "separation of church and state" in the Constitution, please?



Michael




heavyblinker -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 11:19:46 AM)

You guys do realize that Trump says far dumber shit than this on a practically hourly basis, right?
No, of course you don't.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 11:24:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

You guys do realize that Trump says far dumber shit than this on a practically hourly basis, right?
No, of course you don't.

No, they don't because the stuff he says is downright Einsteinian compared to their mad howlings.




jlf1961 -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 11:46:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Rates right up there with former NJ governor candidate Christine O'Donnell, who famously made the claim that there was no separation of church and state in the Constitution.



Can YOU show me the phrase "separation of church and state" in the Constitution, please?



Michael




Well, lets start here:

quote:

US Constitution, Article six:
All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States


Then there is the first amendment:

quote:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



Finally, the Supreme Court has ruled that, while the phrase does not appear in the constitution, there was the intent to keep church and state separate.

McCollum v. Board of Education Dist. 71, 333 U.S. 203 (1948)

Court finds religious instruction in public schools a violation of the establishment clause and therefore unconstitutional.

Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961)

Court holds that the state of Maryland cannot require applicants for public office to swear that they believed in the existence of God. The court unanimously rules that a religious test violates the Establishment Clause.

Engel v. Vitale, 82 S. Ct. 1261 (1962)

Any kind of prayer, composed by public school districts, even nondenominational prayer, is unconstitutional government sponsorship of religion.

Abington School District v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963)

Court finds Bible reading over school intercom unconstitutional and Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203 (1963) - Court finds forcing a child to participate in Bible reading and prayer unconstitutional.

Epperson v. Arkansas, 89 S. Ct. 266 (1968)

State statue banning teaching of evolution is unconstitutional. A state cannot alter any element in a course of study in order to promote a religious point of view. A state's attempt to hide behind a nonreligious motivation will not be given credence unless that state can show a secular reason as the foundation for its actions.

Lemon v. Kurtzman, 91 S. Ct. 2105 (1971)

Established the three part test for determining if an action of government violates First Amendment's separation of church and state:
1) the government action must have a secular purpose;
2) its primary purpose must not be to inhibit or to advance religion;
3) there must be no excessive entanglement between government and religion.

Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980)

Court finds posting of the Ten Commandments in schools unconstitutional.

Wallace v. Jaffree, 105 S. Ct. 2479 (1985)

State's moment of silence at public school statute is unconstitutional where legislative record reveals that motivation for statute was the encouragement of prayer. Court majority silent on whether "pure" moment of silence scheme, with no bias in favor of prayer or any other mental process, would be constitutional.

Edwards v. Aquillard, 107 S. Ct. 2573 (1987)

Unconstitutional for state to require teaching of "creation science" in all instances in which evolution is taught. Statute had a clear religious motivation.

Allegheny County v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573 (1989)

Court finds that a nativity scene displayed inside a government building violates the Establishment Clause.

Lee v. Weisman, 112 S. Ct. 2649 (1992)

Unconstitutional for a school district to provide any clergy to perform nondenominational prayer at elementary or secondary school graduation. It involves government sponsorship of worship. Court majority was particularly concerned about psychological coercion to which children, as opposed to adults, would be subjected, by having prayers that may violate their beliefs recited at their graduation ceremonies.

Now are you really going to insist that there is no separation of church and state in the US constitution?




servantforuse -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 11:50:09 AM)

The phrase ' separation of church and state' is not in the constitution.




jlf1961 -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 11:56:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The phrase ' separation of church and state' is not in the constitution.


no, but the implication is, as per every part of my post.

But, by the same token, the phrase 'right to privacy' does not appear in the constitution either, but that too has been upheld.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 11:56:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The phrase ' separation of church and state' is not in the constitution.

Neither is the phrase "The government can't confiscate my firearms collection without due process".

Your point is?




DaddySatyr -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 12:01:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Finally, the Supreme Court has ruled that, while the phrase does not appear in the constitution, there was the intent to keep church and state separate.



Thank you. The first two phrases were the only ones that answered my question. The last bit of the sentence was a justification of people that can read the minds of the founding fathers. They're amazing, they are!

So, your assertion that someone said "Separation of church and state does not appear in the constitution" and was mistaken was, in fact, a mistake on your part?

Thank you for clearing that up.

You see, my intent was not to argue the constitution with you - even though I find your interpretation faulty. My intent was to show that your attempt at false equivalency failed.



Michael




Hillwilliam -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 12:05:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Finally, the Supreme Court has ruled that, while the phrase does not appear in the constitution, there was the intent to keep church and state separate.



Thank you. The first two phrases were the only ones that answered my question. The last bit of the sentence was a justification of people that can read the minds of the founding fathers. They're amazing, they are!

So, your assertion that someone said "Separation of church and state does not appear in the constitution" and was mistaken was, in fact, a mistake on your part?

Thank you for clearing that up.



Michael


Actually, we don't have to read the minds of the founding fathers.
The Federalist Papers (written by a few of the founding Fathers) make those thoughts quite clear as do the voluminous writings of Thomas Jefferson.

An interesting thing about the early debates on Church and State is that one of the primary advocates of separation wasn't so much Jefferson as one of the delegates from Delaware who was a Presbyterian minister.
He didn't want his beloved church sullied by involvement with government processes.




Termyn8or -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 12:18:39 PM)

quote:

Can YOU show me the phrase "separation of church and state" in the Constitution, please?


Don't play dumb, you know right where it is.

Granted though that many people read much more into the first amendment than it really has. When a private business can't put up a nativity scene on a public road divider, it has gone too far. Next they'll be saying that shouting "FIRE" in a crowded theater is perfectly Constitution.

I wish people would read that thing, especially those in government, or in this case the DNC.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 12:21:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The phrase ' separation of church and state' is not in the constitution.


Neither are quite a few things people think are there. Like life, liberty ad the pursuit of happiness. Not even close, that IIRC is in the declaration.

T^T




Termyn8or -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 12:22:27 PM)

quote:

But, by the same token, the phrase 'right to privacy' does not appear in the constitution either, but that too has been upheld.


To be secure i their personal papers and effects, something like that.

T^T




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Oh! That Wacky DNC (10/27/2017 12:41:53 PM)

FR
I wonder what the fuck he was trying to say.




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