RE: New GOP Tax Plan

RE: New GOP Tax Plan (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Musicmystery -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/4/2017 11:14:42 AM)
quote: In the real world that rarely intrudes upon conservative economists and voters, both parties (and all Presidents) are Keynesians. Actually not even. A true Keynesian would not only stimulate the economy during slower periods, but also slow the economy during stronger economies to balance the cycle (and pay for the growth stimulus). Neither party (and no presidents) have done this, ever. No long term thinking -- always about short term growth.

AtUrCervix -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/4/2017 1:56:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: In the real world that rarely intrudes upon conservative economists and voters, both parties (and all Presidents) are Keynesians. Actually not even. A true Keynesian would not only stimulate the economy during slower periods, but also slow the economy during stronger economies to balance the cycle (and pay for the growth stimulus). Neither party (and no presidents) have done this, ever. No long term thinking -- always about short term growth. Doesn't that beg the obvious question....why do we have to feed the economy when it stalls...and why do we pull back when it's racing? Why don't we just let it run? Let the economy...let taxes....let everything run....find it's own way? Because, as much as we'd like to see otherwise...the government DOES have a purpose (Democrats and Republicans)....no LESS so than a Domme....to hold you back when things get too furious.... Currently...the real issue (as to growth) is...we don't have enough (growth). Why don't we? Because there is no inflation. (Ergo....demand). Without inflation....there is no desire to buy "NOW"...because...today...if we buy (except for a few select real estate areas)...prices are not expected to rise...ergo...no rush.....to buy. (Today). And yet...the Government doesn't want to see inflation rise above 2% (generally considered to be the rate at which equilibrium rests)...ironically...if inflation hit 3.5+%...people would tend to buy.......fearing..."tomorrow...that thing (assets) would be more expensive...ergo...cheaper to buy today"....causing a surge in buying... Interesting that...inflation above 3.50% would cause growth exceeding expectations (interestingly...that which would cause debt to be chastened by virtue of valuations)....yet the government (world governments)...would like it seen as held. Why? Because their dollars...are held constant. To see them eviscerated by inflation would cause them to be lessened in value.....and yet...that would cause people to spend. (Causing even more inflation...inflated values). Curious...(at best).

itsSIRtou -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/4/2017 2:10:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 at the same time, and I don't know the details of the overall picture/plan---does the thought of ever cutting back expenses enter into the comrades' minds? god forbid the people should be allowed to hang on to more of their OWN money as opposed to having the leviathan take more and more of it. really? Oh wait .....maybe ur gonna drive around with a full car of asphalt to fix potholes on the national interstate Highways when needed right? How about doing what Wisconsin does and leave dead deer and other road kill laying in the road for weeks and months because the gop led government's budget cant cover their removal before the scavengers are done picking at it. hey lets call Pres. rump and tell him u would rather foot the bill for the: 2 Aircraft carriers.................$12. billion each 11 Attack submarines ...........$2.7 billion each 10 Destroyers.......................$2.8 billion each 12 Littoral combat ships..........$900. million each (est.) that alone is $10,881,700,000,000.00 (give or take a decimal point.) and that's JUST a chunk of the Navy future spending ideas.....and the rest of the military has similar spending budgets. if u keep ur money, who's gonna do all that among other things u take for granted when u turn the key and glide down the road, and when u expect the military to continue to protect ur happy ass. and ur going to tell Me that u don't care if the upper 1% of American's have >>> u <<<< foot THIS bill and any other government expense, while the wealthy go buy another luxury item with the money they told u they were going to create jobs for Americans with??? what are u? a throwback to feudalism?? Like somewhere in the 1300's?? Is there something in ur DNA that u just HAVE to make someone ELSE more wealthy at ur OWN expense? What I fail to grasp is how u don't know that is the eventual outcome of all this???? I don't know what rock hit u in ur head that u don't think that if the wealthy don't pay BILLIONS in taxes that >>>> u <<<<< don't make up for that loss in tax revenue somewhere??? That just because they let u keep what comparative pittance ur going to keep as opposed to what the wealthy will get from this tax bullshit that those bills are magically going to go away? OH YEAH!! THE deficit!! That's just going to blow up into the (not) cheap seats like ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ECONOMIST SINCE rump WAS A CANDIDATE HAS WARNED US ALL AGAINST. boy the opiates u take to believe that isn't going to come out of ur pockets in the long term, must be pretty damn good. https://pilotonline.com/news/military/how-the-new-military-budget-affects-navy-warships/article_1901eb5d-e100-5c4c-8aed-2585ce7f2da9.html (www.finance.hq.navy.mil/fmb/15pres/Highlights_book.pdf)

WhoreMods -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/5/2017 4:46:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: In the real world that rarely intrudes upon conservative economists and voters, both parties (and all Presidents) are Keynesians. Actually not even. A true Keynesian would not only stimulate the economy during slower periods, but also slow the economy during stronger economies to balance the cycle (and pay for the growth stimulus). Neither party (and no presidents) have done this, ever. No long term thinking -- always about short term growth. Wasn't part of the villification of Carter over him proposing to do that?

Musicmystery -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/5/2017 4:59:48 AM)
Responsibility was not a message Americans wanted to hear. They preferred "It's just that simple." Even though it wasn't. And isn't.

WhoreMods -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/5/2017 5:25:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Responsibility was not a message Americans wanted to hear. They preferred "It's just that simple." Even though it wasn't. And isn't. Very true. Small wonder no president since has even mentioned that one in passing...

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/5/2017 9:33:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: In the real world that rarely intrudes upon conservative economists and voters, both parties (and all Presidents) are Keynesians. Actually not even. A true Keynesian would not only stimulate the economy during slower periods, but also slow the economy during stronger economies to balance the cycle (and pay for the growth stimulus). Neither party (and no presidents) have done this, ever. No long term thinking -- always about short term growth. There's no way anyone (sadly, imo) is going to slow the economy down on purpose. So, the booms and busts are going to continue. I suppose it's the "American way" now.

Musicmystery -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/5/2017 9:49:15 AM)
It’s the unfortunate consequence of language controlling the discussion. In my personal and business finances, I call it planning ahead for the future and for slower times, not slowing me down. But yeah, prudence and thinking ahead, although values of our grandparents, are no longer an American approach, and that will continue to cost us.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/5/2017 9:51:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery But yeah, prudence and thinking ahead, although values of our grandparents, are no longer an American approach, and that will continue to cost us. No argument there.

AtUrCervix -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/8/2017 1:52:00 PM)
FR... We can all argue against our principles....defend our politics...but it comes down to this: My BIGGEST fault is....I always tell the truth.....as I know it...occasionally I'm wrrr....wrrr...wrr....uhhhh....misinformed....).... MM has accosted me MULTIPLE times...(occasionally I've actually agreed with him). "Well...YOU'RE an idiot".....NO!!! YOU'RE an idiot!!! I was watching C-span last night (I actually fall asleep to it)...and I was listening to the covey of political hacks defending their premise.... Here's how it went: Republicans: "This is the best gawdamned thing since sliced bread and you ALL NEED TO GET ON BOARD!!!". Democrats: "You DO realize that in years 2, 3 and 4, EVERY single TAX PAYER gets a tax INCREASE!!!???" Thankfully, they run this tape 6 times before I wake up and...HERE........are the FACTS: LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ALL of them). STOP defending YOUR party.....because.... They're LYING!!! THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Yes. The Democrats are correct...in years 2, 3 and 4....EVERYONE gets a tax increase. YEP!!! (It's true). Ya know why? Because you're making MORE MONEY!!! (ERGO...yer' GONNA PAY MORE TAXES!!!....it's a wonderful thing!!!). 1.5 trillion in debt INCREASE. (IT's a MOTHERFUCKING FACT!!!) So....what's YOUR part in this? Get in the gawdamned game!!! Send your legislator a letter....(and send MINE a letter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Quit being a fucking PUSSY!!! Quit spending your time on HERE telling EVERYONE here...what a MORON they are and send a letter to the PEOPLE THAT FUCKING MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/b] There ya go....(that's how it works). (You can thank me later). (You can also thank me now).

Musicmystery -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 6:32:08 AM)
Wishful thinking. Not the same as a plan.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 7:52:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery bounty, does the thought of cuts to pay for this ever enter the GOP/conservative/alt-right minds???? Because there's nothing but "I have faith the economy will magically grow to generate more than the foregone revenue." A faith based on nothing but a belief in an already oft-discredited ideology. It is NO different than the "comrades" wanting services with no idea how to fund them. BOTH are mindless, simplistic, frankly child-like ideologies. And this "plan" is a prime example. The GOP always offers cuts to spending. It's cuts to spending growth (this is also how the Democrats do it, too). Stated: "We're axing spending by $500B on XYZ!" Reality: Spending was going to increased by $1T over 10 years, but now, it's "only" going to increase $500B! Plus, they have all these "cuts" backloaded over 10 years, so most of them won't even be there when it comes time to cut. Plus, by that time, there will be a hue and cry to not cut "my" spending and the cuts-that-aren't-really-cuts end up not happening then, either. Not cutting revenues (if you look at the revenues under Bush, his tax cuts didn't result in reduced revenues) is almost enabling Government to continue to waste money left and right (figurative figure of speech, and also indicative that both sides are guilty of it, btw).

WhoreMods -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 8:35:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery bounty, does the thought of cuts to pay for this ever enter the GOP/conservative/alt-right minds???? Because there's nothing but "I have faith the economy will magically grow to generate more than the foregone revenue." A faith based on nothing but a belief in an already oft-discredited ideology. It is NO different than the "comrades" wanting services with no idea how to fund them. BOTH are mindless, simplistic, frankly child-like ideologies. And this "plan" is a prime example. The GOP always offers cuts to spending. It's cuts to spending growth (this is also how the Democrats do it, too). Stated: "We're axing spending by $500B on XYZ!" Reality: Spending was going to increased by $1T over 10 years, but now, it's "only" going to increase $500B! Plus, they have all these "cuts" backloaded over 10 years, so most of them won't even be there when it comes time to cut. Plus, by that time, there will be a hue and cry to not cut "my" spending and the cuts-that-aren't-really-cuts end up not happening then, either. Not cutting revenues (if you look at the revenues under Bush, his tax cuts didn't result in reduced revenues) is almost enabling Government to continue to waste money left and right (figurative figure of speech, and also indicative that both sides are guilty of it, btw). True enough, but I still find the spectacle of republicans whining about "tax and spend" democrats hilarious: at least the t&sdems are making a token effort to raise some revenue to reduce the extent to which their spending will hike the deficit, unlike the republicans who normally want to spend more while cutting tax revenues.

Musicmystery -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 9:54:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery bounty, does the thought of cuts to pay for this ever enter the GOP/conservative/alt-right minds???? Because there's nothing but "I have faith the economy will magically grow to generate more than the foregone revenue." A faith based on nothing but a belief in an already oft-discredited ideology. It is NO different than the "comrades" wanting services with no idea how to fund them. BOTH are mindless, simplistic, frankly child-like ideologies. And this "plan" is a prime example. The GOP always offers cuts to spending. It's cuts to spending growth (this is also how the Democrats do it, too). Stated: "We're axing spending by $500B on XYZ!" Reality: Spending was going to increased by $1T over 10 years, but now, it's "only" going to increase $500B! Plus, they have all these "cuts" backloaded over 10 years, so most of them won't even be there when it comes time to cut. Plus, by that time, there will be a hue and cry to not cut "my" spending and the cuts-that-aren't-really-cuts end up not happening then, either. Not cutting revenues (if you look at the revenues under Bush, his tax cuts didn't result in reduced revenues) is almost enabling Government to continue to waste money left and right (figurative figure of speech, and also indicative that both sides are guilty of it, btw). In both the Bush plan and this one, the “plan” is that economic stimulus (wished and assumed, not strategically planned) will be so great that extra income will generate more than enough new tax revenue to replace or exceed the cuts. It’s a fantasy. Could it happen? It could. Will it? Roll the dice and see. But still wishful thinking. And why the deficit grew substantially under the Bush tax cuts (continued in the Obama years). If the goal is balancing the budget, tax cuts are demonstrably not going to get us there.

MasterDrakk -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 12:14:30 PM)
Not cutting revenues (if you look at the revenues under Bush, his tax cuts didn't result in reduced revenues) it certainly did, because first, his tax cuts had nothing to do with the bubble (there wasnt a good strong economy underneath the paper swaps) and it had only bad effects and seriously reduced revenues when the toilet flushed.

AtUrCervix -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 1:56:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Wishful thinking. Not the same as a plan. Maybe not and....it's abundantly clear that the Democrats want to put smokescreens up....as much as the Republicans do. Thankfully.....some....read....and some watch C-Span (not like it's some kind of panacea....the truth is...listening to that drivel is like listening to a cliff fall). What frustrates me (in these forums) is....so many want JUST to point out others flaws....instead of finding solutions. Ironically...we all (largely) agree on the solutions (mostly)....but we have to spend so much effort pointing out where everyone else is....an idiot.

servantforuse -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 2:38:05 PM)
Case in point. The comments here about our presidents. I didn't vote for Obama and didn't like him. I did want him to be a successful president, even though I think he failed. I also want Trump to be successful. Lets give him more than 9 months to see if he is..

Musicmystery -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 2:41:48 PM)
Curious at what point you’d consider Trump to have failed. His term is 20% over already. 30%? 50%? 88.2%? The very fact that you (and others) are urging we give him a chance reinforces that so far, it’s not a success.

servantforuse -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 2:52:13 PM)
I said I think (know) that Obama failed. He had 8 years. The liberals that hate Trump think he's done after 9 months. Trump is doing fine. 7 more years and America will be great again.

DesideriScuri -> RE: New GOP Tax Plan (11/9/2017 4:35:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk Not cutting revenues (if you look at the revenues under Bush, his tax cuts didn't result in reduced revenues) it certainly did, because first, his tax cuts had nothing to do with the bubble (there wasnt a good strong economy underneath the paper swaps) and it had only bad effects and seriously reduced revenues when the toilet flushed. Oh, really? I know you can't prove out your assertion there, but what makes you think revenues wouldn't have plummeted during the Great Recession anyway? https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals Table 1.1 (it's a spreadsheet) Receipts 2000 - $2.025T 2001 - $1.991T 2002 - $1.853T 2003 - $1.782T 2004 - $1.880T 2005 - $2.153T 2006 - $2.406T 2007 - $2.567T 2008 - $2.523T 2009 - $2.104T If you recall (I know you do, you just won't admit it), the dotcom bubble burst right at the end of the Clinton Presidency that Bush inherited (thus the declining revenues), and then there was 9/11 in his first year that sent the economy down again. By 2005, we hit a record revenue number. Improved it in 2006, and again in 2007. Your idea about the tax cuts not having to do with the bubble is somewhat valid, as the housing bubble started almost 30 years before the Bush tax cuts came into existence. In fact, that bubble started before the elder Bush was VP. The problem with the Bush Administration's economic policy was this: outlays went from $1.862T in 2001 to $3.517T in 2009; almost doubled. Without the Bush tax cuts (they hoped would be used to increase demand, which is why there was so much consternation when, as it turned out, most of it went towards paying down consumer debt - aka prior demand), the mini-recession from the dotcom burst and 9/11 may have been even longer.

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875