quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
If you wanted a compromise, you should have voted for Clinton: she's spent her whole political career refusing to take a stand on anything. I doubt she'd storm away from from the negotiations in a feigned snit then tweet that the other lot were dissing her powers when they didn't beg her to come back and accept her terms afterwards...

Hillary was not the candidate that best reflected my beliefs or values. Thus, I could not, in good conscience, vote for her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
The facts are that with the tax cuts, federal revenue fell precipitously and drove the treasury right into deficit. Cutting taxes twice, once on 1040 rates and again on corp. taxes and cap gains and financing it with more repub borrowing.
The first tax cut the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, was signed into law June 7, 2001. It began to affect revenues almost immediately as "advance rebate" checks were mailed to millions of taxpayers starting that July. After the fiscal year ended Sept. 30, 2001, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office calculated that those rebates had already amounted to $35 billion. As a result, CBO said, federal income tax receipts fell that year, rather than posting an increase.
Total federal revenues declined not only in 2001, but also in the following two years, according to CBO historical budget figures. In fiscal 2002, total revenues declined by $138 billion, and in fiscal 2003, they went down for a third year in a row — by nearly $71 billion. Revenues turned up in fiscal 2004, but didn't reach pre-tax-cut levels until fiscal year 2005.
HERE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
If you wanted a compromise, you should have voted for Clinton: she's spent her whole political career refusing to take a stand on anything. I doubt she'd storm away from from the negotiations in a feigned snit then tweet that the other lot were dissing her powers when they didn't beg her to come back and accept her terms afterwards...

Hillary was not the candidate that best reflected my beliefs or values. Thus, I could not, in good conscience, vote for her.

The only beliefs and values Hillary reflected were "Vote for me!" and "Vagina!".
Surprisingly, this was insufficient for the majority of America.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Hillary does have beliefs and values.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Hillary does have beliefs and values.

Really? Name them.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
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• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
The facts are that with the tax cuts, federal revenue fell precipitously and drove the treasury right into deficit. Cutting taxes twice, once on 1040 rates and again on corp. taxes and cap gains and financing it with more repub borrowing.
The first tax cut the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001, was signed into law June 7, 2001. It began to affect revenues almost immediately as "advance rebate" checks were mailed to millions of taxpayers starting that July. After the fiscal year ended Sept. 30, 2001, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office calculated that those rebates had already amounted to $35 billion. As a result, CBO said, federal income tax receipts fell that year, rather than posting an increase.
Total federal revenues declined not only in 2001, but also in the following two years, according to CBO historical budget figures. In fiscal 2002, total revenues declined by $138 billion, and in fiscal 2003, they went down for a third year in a row — by nearly $71 billion. Revenues turned up in fiscal 2004, but didn't reach pre-tax-cut levels until fiscal year 2005.
HERE

Look at the OMB.Gov History charts. I even posted the revenues from 2001-2009 in a post.

As a %GDP, they did fall. In terms of dollars, they rose.

Immediate effects of a tax break will be to have lower tax revenues. It still takes time for shit to happen.

Tax revenues dropped, not simply because of tax cuts, but because we were in a recession from the dotcom bubble bursting and from the effects of 9/11. How disingenuous of you to not mention that part.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
All dis-ingenuousness aside, It is precisely because we still had a projected surplus and were headed into recession, that we are told, to vote for R's and conservatives to do what ? Be conservative...do nothing. Do not in any case cut taxes and borrow to cover their ass. There was simply no feasible rationale for W's 01 ond 03 tax cuts and by then financing two wars and in addition to entering a new war on terror.

(1993-2000) = $12.37T
(1994-2001) = $13.21T

(2001-2008) = $17.16T
(2002-2009) = $17.27T

quote:

Funny how Clinton who also inherited a recession, raised taxes, created an operating surplus (enough to retire billion$ in US debt) created 20 million jobs and we are still to believe this repub mathematically grotesque rhetoric again on the pros and cons of tax cuts ?

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• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
All dis-ingenuousness aside, It is precisely because we still had a projected surplus and were headed into recession, that we are told, to vote for R's and conservatives to do what ? Be conservative...do nothing. Do not in any case cut taxes and borrow to cover their ass. There was simply no feasible rationale for W's 01 ond 03 tax cuts and by then financing two wars and in addition to entering a new war on terror.

When did the tax cuts start? 2001, right?

When did the "two wars" start? Oh, yeah, after that. The first of 2 tax cuts was in response to the economic doldrums following the dotcom bubble burst. The economy got a second gutpunch on 9/11 which was also after the initial phases of the 2001 tax cuts. The cuts in 2003 were set in place because the economy still wasn't picking up well.

Yes, the Bush Administration saw an incredible increase in spending (175% or so compared to Clinton's final annual outlay), and he should be roundly criticized for that. The numbers aren't tough to find. Revenues under Bush eventually hit yearly records.

Cliinton's Receipts:

(1993-2000) = $12.37T
(1994-2001) = $13.21T

Bush's Receipts:

(2001-2008) = $17.16T
(2002-2009) = $17.27T

You choose which 8-year period you'd like to compare. If the Bush tax cuts were so horrendous, why were they continued after Congress went to the Democrats, especially after Obama was sworn in?

quote:

Funny how Clinton who also inherited a recession, raised taxes, created an operating surplus (enough to retire billion$ in US debt) created 20 million jobs and we are still to believe this repub mathematically grotesque rhetoric again on the pros and cons of tax cuts ?

What happened to "all dis-ingenuousness aside?" You're comparing the S&L crisis to the dotcom bubble burst?!? LMMFAO!!! Can you possibly get more partisan? Oh, yes, you can. Obviously, raising taxes led to the huge expansion due to the internet being used by businesses. OMG, you're such a partisan hack, I can't even believe I'm wasting my time arguing with you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtUrCervix
And yet.....still......there hasn't been a single President since George Washington who didn't spend the first 2 years figuring out "how to be president".

Actually, the problem is that biovating scrotum in the white house decided how to be president before he was sworn in, and has spent the last year throwing tantrums because his take on that just doesn't work, but he's not going to change it because the world is wrong and he's right.
Just the sort of person you want running the country...

Name me ONE President who knew how to run the show.....before they got in.

Name me ONE President who figured it out...in the first two years.

Pick ONE man (they've all been men) who knew the game....before they grabbed the keys.

(And by the way...name one of YOU who could do better).

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
This is a change in your replies DS. I have history and the facts behind me, therefore I am not being partisan at all and simply wonder where all of this fiscal conservatism is. Debt in 2001 $5.6 trillion. Debt on 2008 $13 trillion.
No tax cuts ever increases revenue unless you lower cap gains which Bush did and as I've stated before, results in a short term windfall on those gains, now realized because of the discount. Those mere billion$ in that 'windfall' put no dent into the trillion$ of borrowing.
Even in a lecture delivered by a writer for National Review, asked how is it that people should vote for repubs because they were small govt., fiscally sound ? When in the last 40 or more years have these people when in power, ever shown us that they are small govt., fiscal conservatives ?
They haven't and still aren't.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
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• Limited Government
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Hillary does have beliefs and values.

Really? Name them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2016#Platform

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Hillary does have beliefs and values.

Really? Name them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2016#Platform

A platform is not a set of beliefs and values. Try again.
Five bucks says you can't. Because as a candidate, Clinton has never expressed a set of beliefs, philosophies or underlying morality. Go on, give it a go.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Hillary does have beliefs and values.

Really? Name them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_presidential_campaign,_2016#Platform

A platform is not a set of beliefs and values. Try again.
Five bucks says you can't. Because as a candidate, Clinton has never expressed a set of beliefs, philosophies or underlying morality. Go on, give it a go.

Her platform is her set of political beliefs and values.

Like I said, your response is part of the problem with political discussions in the US.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Honestly, watching an idiot trying to lecture me on political discussion is like watching a finger painting child trying to comment on quantum physics.
Beliefs and values are not a political platform. They are the underlying rationale and motivators for actions. Clinton's actions betray a pattern of contempt for the American people, a willingness to sacrifice integrity for opportunism and a level of corruption that is simply appalling in a potential presidential candidate.
Her personal brand is so toxic, she made Donald Trump look like a reasonable alternative to large numbers of people.
Honestly, watching your inadequate mind trying to process these things is boring beyond belief. Fuck, now I remember why I don't bother here very much. The level of discourse is so fucking infantile.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Honestly, watching an idiot trying to lecture me on political discussion is like watching a finger painting child trying to comment on quantum physics.
Beliefs and values are not a political platform. They are the underlying rationale and motivators for actions. Clinton's actions betray a pattern of contempt for the American people, a willingness to sacrifice integrity for opportunism and a level of corruption that is simply appalling in a potential presidential candidate.
Her personal brand is so toxic, she made Donald Trump look like a reasonable alternative to large numbers of people.
Honestly, watching your inadequate mind trying to process these things is boring beyond belief. Fuck, now I remember why I don't bother here very much. The level of discourse is so fucking infantile.

Nothing but egotistical personal attacks. What great strategy for actual discussion! Thanks for identifying your M.O.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Oh dear Lord, you mean "exhibit" my modus operandi, not identify.
This is what I mean. Words actually mean things, people! Sentences need to be put together properly! You can't just string words together and insist people should "know what I mean".
Honestly, I try and educate you and in the face of a superior argument, you run away.
Bloody ungrateful fucking prole.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
...some people/posts just aren't worth responding to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Oh dear Lord, you mean "exhibit" my modus operandi, not identify.
This is what I mean. Words actually mean things, people! Sentences need to be put together properly! You can't just string words together and insist people should "know what I mean".
Honestly, I try and educate you and in the face of a superior argument, you run away.
Bloody ungrateful fucking prole.

Aw, shucks. I used the wrong word. Please forgive me, oh, lexicon-master.

I'm not running away. I'm accepting the fact that some people/posts just aren't worth responding to.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
...some people/posts just aren't worth responding to.

ive had the same experience with him.

its unfortunate, because he's clearly smart, but his manic, mean-spiritedness makes him insufferable.