RE: Consent 2

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Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 4:23:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I think a smart/or honorable person, will not take advantage of someone or "hook up" with someone they barely know, who is clearly intoxicated. It is possible to be charged with rape, even if you are married, so I think it's best to error on the side of caution, if you are smart. I think one of the issues, here lies in this paragraph I pulled. I think back to when I was "living better through chemicals" (Dear God in heaven; can it be over thirty years?) and I KNOW, for a fact, there were plenty of times I was intoxicated where no one else had a clue. The DUI laws were changed in NJ, when I was just about to turn 18 (I would not be "grandfathered in" as legal). The penalties went from (this is from memory. Bear with me) a 60 day loss of license and $250 fine to 6 months and $2,000 per year "insurance surcharge". Also, this was when breathalyzers were instituted in NJ. I will repeat: There were plenty of times when I was legally intoxicated, but because of having built up a tolerance, no one else knew I was. Now, imagine being able to wake up with a case of "Fucker's Remorse" and honestly (as far as the law is concerned) being able to claim: "I was intoxicated and, therefore, it's not my fault I slept with that vile man"? Unfortunately, that is (in some cases) what is going on, today. Sure, the ladies are "intoxicated" (by their own claim and by virtue of the legal limit only being .08%), but if they want to be REALLY honest, they "knew" what they were doing, at the time. They just didn't care or think it through or whatever and their "rapist" had no idea that they were "impaired". Michael If someone is intoxicated, and the other party is unaware of that fact, that is another can of worms. Whether or not someone "knows" what they are doing when they are impaired, it seems like it is best not to become "involved", whether they give consent or not. Unless you are in a long-term or serious relationship, even then you better be careful! Maybe having to sign a consent form, is not a far fetched idea. These days you could actually video tape someone giving consent. I've noticed that lately a lot of the more "reputable" video porn sites start and end their videos with consent testimony. As for intoxicated, I'm not a big fan of drunkenness and having sex with someone who is drunk is totally out of the question but having sex with someone who is "legally" impaired but not noticeably is a problem I have thought about and it seem that most are suggesting that perhaps if they've had more than one beverage, consider it a "first" date and wait for a "second" one. But considering the outrage there has been about "forced" kissing, should you kiss goodnight someone who could be, not noticeably, "legally" impaired?

Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 4:31:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick Jesus fuck, are you honestly this stupid? It rather looks like he is, yes. Hi froggy, looks like your only purpose in posting is to agree with people who are only being insulting. It seems you can't even come up with your own insults. So, it seems that expecting you to come up with some sort of "intelligent" comment about the actual OP would be asking too much of you. Why don't you move along so the adults can talk. ;-)

WhoreMods -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 4:54:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick Jesus fuck, are you honestly this stupid? It rather looks like he is, yes. Hi froggy, looks like your only purpose in posting is to agree with people who are only being insulting. It seems you can't even come up with your own insults. So, it seems that expecting you to come up with some sort of "intelligent" comment about the actual OP would be asking too much of you. Why don't you move along so the adults can talk. ;-) If you want to discuss stuff in an intelligent fashion as though you were an adult, you could start by giving your reasons for abandoning your argument that evolution is a theory that favours rapist and so renders the notion of consent irrelevant.

Greta75 -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 6:25:57 AM)
quote: I have read profiles of people stating that want to be "raped"/forced and abused, etc. I am not even sure how that works, are they giving "consent" to be forced/abused? What happens when they give "consent" to be forced/raped or abused, and in the middle of the activity, they find it is no longer fun, and say no? If you STOP immediately, was it still consensual? I am completely surprise that anybody into BDSM is asking this question. But since I am one of those people who loves "raped" scenarios and have dabbled in it many times since a teen. Even before I knew BDSM even existed, I mean, was into BDSM, but I just never knew there was a name for it and a scene and proper way to go about it. By "proper", I mean some safety rules. I already knew to have a secret word that means, "STOP". So all the pleading, and begging and saying no and crying, the guy does not stop. Until the "secret word" is mentioned. It's that simple. And basically no gags. Even if there is gag, then there is a secret action where you can communicate with the guy to say, this is too much, STOP! That's how it works! It's consensual all the way. As safe words or safe signals are pre-negotiated. It only becomes consensual when pre-agreed secret word is mentioned and the guy refuses to stop. Of course, let's face it. If you are man who is beating a woman until she bleeds or sticking needles into her (because she wants it). She can easily go to the cops and cry that you abused her. And because there is no way to tell the difference between a genuine abused woman and consensual abused woman. Both have bruises. Both bleed. Both get wounds.

Greta75 -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 7:42:07 AM)
Which is why, if you wanna dabble in sex or BDSM or anything that could construe as rape or abuse. Please get to know the woman really well first before engaging. My x-dom and I engaged within 48 hours of knowing each other. Both of us, had good sixth sense about each other. As I get to know him. I realise he has really really good feel for people. And he will always be okay. And infact when I don't trust my judgement, I can always introduce this person to my x-dom and I can trust his judgement. How to make sure you are safe and won't be wrongly accuse or make a mistake? I don't know. The law needs to protect abuse women and men. How we don't get trap into a situation where we make a mistake is up to us on knowing what the law is, and navigating carefully around it.

Svale -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 2:00:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles Is anything short of that to be considered “rape” or is there a place somewhere in the spectrum of “consent” where, between two consenting adults, there can be “implied consent”? Or is the, “two people meet and there is love at first sight and they make mad passionate love and live happily ever after” a thing of the past or is it to be “not without consent forms”? 'Implied' consent does not sound good to me. What is wrong with straight talk so as to avoid any misunderstandings?

Svale -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 2:02:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear [sm=diethreaddie.gif] Can you both just LET IT DROP??? The first thread turned into kind of a trainwreck... Why O why start a second one that most definitely will? BEJEEBUS DAMNATION JUMPIN JEHOSAPHAT... we're not in grade school anymore kidlets, act like the adults you're supposed to be. POINT...FINAL...BATON... THE. END. Well, since you don't seem to be into reading, I'll try to simplify it for you. The concept of "Consent" seems to have gone way beyond a simple "agreement" between two adults to have sex and since I believe that is is all that should be necessary, I'm trying to understand why and what is now considered "necessary". I don't know why but it seems no one wants to talk about the subject and that too is curious to me and would like to know why? I believe 'consent' is a clear 'yes'.

Svale -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 2:06:34 PM)
[/quote] Not to blame the woman but it would seem that even a woman who is "weak", submissive and not too bright, would by the time she had reached adulthood would have learned how to spot "red flags" and how divert things like this early in life with a simple; "I have other plans". I would also say that the guy doesn't seem too bright either, whereas friendliness can be easily mistaken for more, he missed more than his share of "red flags" as he started to step over the line of friendship and consent. [/quote] But you also started by saying that all these rules are unnecessary, if I read your initial post right. So I am curious, what method would you yourself advocate to avoid unwanted entanglements or rape?

Svale -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 2:13:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloverodella The only time it is not simple, as far as I can understand, is when the person says no but you don't like their answer, Would that all people were straight forward and honest about what they want, but such is not the case, and confusion can and does happen. People see a green light when there isn't one, or they do not see it when it is there, some are socially inept, some are shy, and so on. I agree a clear question and answer should be the norm and should be simple, but apparently it isn't.

Svale -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 2:16:45 PM)
" if they want to be REALLY honest, they "knew" what they were doing, at the time. They just didn't care or think it through or whatever and their "rapist" had no idea that they were "impaired". " Oh dear!

Svale -> RE: Consent 2 (11/6/2017 2:17:55 PM)
"I wonder just how many rape cases that go to court are "fuckers remorse". ALong with false accusations, way too many. " I doubt it, considering what you have to go through to start a rape case.

Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 4:02:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I dont even think that he knows that consent means its "consensual" so yes Ah no, although they refer to the same subject, one is a noun the other is a adjective and can not be used interchangeably. One could say consensual consent for a bit hyperbole and most would consider it to be a bit redundant but it would still be proper English.

Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 4:10:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I dont even think that he knows that consent means its "consensual" so yes Looking at his sig picture, I'm wondering if he's desideruscuri (or whatever he calls himself) trying to conceal his Sontaran nature with a hat and stick on 'tache. Hi Froggy, I had you pegged as a teenager but with this grade school "insult" I'd put you closer to a precocious 12year old. As for my ugly mug shot, at least I'm not afraid to show it, what's your excuse for not having one? Afraid people will see that you are only 12?

Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 4:27:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I think your friends didn’t notice how intoxicated you were because they were equally wasted. Or you assumed they didn’t notice because you couldn’t judge their perception. I can assure you that when I’m sober, I have no problem identifying who isn’t. I may not say anything, because I know better than arguing with drunks, but that doesn’t mean if I talk them into giving me their credit cards that I shouldn’t be arrested for theft. Equally, you have sex with someone who cannot consent, you’re guilty of rape. And no, being intoxicated yourself is not an excuse anymore than killing someone because you were driving drunk. I think the key word in your comment is "wasted". I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not talking about "wasted". Personally, I find people who are "wasted" unpleasant to even be around, let alone even try to have sex with them. What I've been talking about is legally intoxicated, which is about .05% and is legally impaired and although it could be near impossible to tell, even to one has has not been drinking, in court even though she said yes could be considered "rape" because of the "impairment" that was not realized.

Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 4:33:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles When I was a youth, it seemed many people went to bars had a few drinks and “hooked up” but now in the 21st century that same thing seems to be headed toward consent forms, witnessed by two or more of their friends and breathalyzer tests, maybe even drug tests and maybe even a waiting period like they do before buying a gun, before you “hook up”. Going to give this a shot. Speaking also as a person who, in my younger days, absolutely has gone to the bar, had a few, (sometimes more than a few) and hooked up, yes, plenty of people did that. The key element about that today is that we have more information about how alcohol and other substances effect the brain, impair the ability to consent, along with poor reasoning and motor skills. It's something along with, remember how many people back in the 80's (before M.A.D.D. came to be) would say how they were better drivers when under the influence, and then we found out scientifically why that isn't true? It was researched and tested and proven that it wasn't true. With this new information, some of us, including myself, had to be more responsible people, because we had more awareness about intoxication and learned it probably wasn't the best time to be driving a car. Whether a person agrees with the premise of a certain alcohol level impairing consent or not, we know the position that the criminal justice system has on it. With this information, I'd probably have to say that if a person can't legally drive, it might be a good idea to consider that their ability to consent may also be impaired, and it also might be a good idea to put the plans on sex on hold until you KNOW they aren't impaired. If two people are really sexually interested in each other, choosing to meet up at another time isn't going to ruin anything. I'm going to add something. I'm actually not against people indulging with drinks prior to sex and even not one of the 'don't ever drink and kink' people. People are adults and perfectly capable of making their own choices. However, I'm big on the term risk aware consensual kink and that means a person should be able to evaluate risk vrs reward. If I feel I'm in the position that I need a signed consent form, witnessed by two other people, and blah, blah, blah... My personal risk is probably too high and I'll pass. quote: Is anything short of that to be considered “rape” or is there a place somewhere in the spectrum of “consent” where, between two consenting adults, there can be “implied consent”? My personal opinion is that I would greatly prefer what is known as "enthusiastic consent," which means yes, at some time or another, I'm going to make the other person tell me I have it. I even believe in blanket consent, where I'm given consent from that time on to do whatever I want, with the stipulation that such consent can be removed by either party at any time. It's not a subject that I yo-yo on. I either have blanket consent or I don't. It's not like I had it Tuesday, it got removed Thursday, and Friday we're back to blanket consent again. quote: Or is the, “two people meet and there is love at first sight and they make mad passionate love and live happily ever after” a thing of the past or is it to be “not without consent forms”? What's with all this bit about consent forms? Are you running a club or getting specific written consent to hold the copyrights on pictures of play? The latter is something I've actually done because I get specific written consent for pictures of wax work and stuff like that if I am going to post them. Same thing for me, though. At any time, any person can ask me to take a picture of them down, and I have no problem removing it from my use that had been agreed on prior. That's just respecting other people. As a casual player, I am rather fond of putting into my negotiations prior to play that I get a check in email from the bottom the following day. This is for a) is the other person experiencing any form of sub-drop and b) do they feel we remained within whatever limits for play we had negotiated. I'm a closed poly person so casual sex doesn't come into it. Thank you for your post. I have to go to work but would like to reread your post and comment on it later. ;-)

Lucylastic -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 4:44:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I dont even think that he knows that consent means its "consensual" so yes Ah no, although they refer to the same subject, one is a noun the other is a adjective and can not be used interchangeably. One could say consensual consent for a bit hyperbole and most would consider it to be a bit redundant but it would still be proper English. you still dont understand the consent part tho, nit picking lazy english while charming, has nothing to do with you not believing that times have actually changed, no matter the hard wired sexual impulses we all have. Ive enjoyed my sexuality since before I was a teen, I did have a lot of problems with men thinking they had the last word and not in the consensual way.(IE I didnt like the gropes, harassment, touching, and worse) why should I not get upset about it??? why should I not demand consent? just wondering.

Shandirra -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 6:53:59 AM)
Here's the short, fast, hard answer to cover all bases about consent... "NO!" means no. There's no "maybe", "if", "perhaps". Not even "consensual non-consent". "NO!" means no. If someone is impaired; drugs, alcohol, mentally or physically? Consent goes out the window and you keep your fingers, lips, ass, genitalia and any other bits to yourself. Got it?? The minute you step over any of these lines? It's sexual harassment, sexual assault or rape; depending on the seriousness of the allegation. End of discussion. Period. See you in jail! I advocate for pressing charges.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 6:54:19 AM)
quote: it seem that most are suggesting that perhaps if they've had more than one beverage, consider it a "first" date and wait for a "second" one. Yeah, that's hardly surprising, most people are more foam than beer.

Greta75 -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 7:41:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: it seem that most are suggesting that perhaps if they've had more than one beverage, consider it a "first" date and wait for a "second" one. Yeah, that's hardly surprising, most people are more foam than beer. Actually, OP here is worried about not being able to tell that the woman is over the alcohol limit(because maybe she drank before meeting him) and then later she cries rape and he gets in trouble. Can this happen? Of course! Alot of men are thick. So if he has alot of uncertainty about his own judgement, I would suggest, even if she had one drink. Skip the sex! Don't put yourself at risk. If ya wanna go ahead and have fun, then live with the consequences IF there are any at all. You know, end of the day, everything is a risk. And honestly when it comes to sex for both men and woman! Everyone needs to starts building their inner intuition. For example, I was reading about this woman sharing her experience on her second date with some guy she met online. And when she arrived, her date already have her drink there for her. Her sixth sense tells her something is wrong. So she told the date that she didn't like what he ordered, told him to drink her portion and she ordered a new drink. The date refused to drink her drink. The whole date went through, and her drink was left untouched. She suspected he added something into it. I would seriously never think of that especially when this is second date already. I mean so many things could happen. These are like almost things ya need to warn your daughters about.

Milesnmiles -> RE: Consent 2 (11/7/2017 5:43:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick Jesus fuck, are you honestly this stupid? It rather looks like he is, yes. Hi froggy, looks like your only purpose in posting is to agree with people who are only being insulting. It seems you can't even come up with your own insults. So, it seems that expecting you to come up with some sort of "intelligent" comment about the actual OP would be asking too much of you. Why don't you move along so the adults can talk. ;-) If you want to discuss stuff in an intelligent fashion as though you were an adult, you could start by giving your reasons for abandoning your argument that evolution is a theory that favours rapist and so renders the notion of consent irrelevant. First, are you sure you can discuss anything in an intelligent fashion like an adult, cause I haven't seen you do it yet. And second, it was never my "argument that evolution is a theory that favours rapist and so renders the notion of consent irrelevant", that is something you came up with and can't seem to let go. Last, I have been posting pretty much continually in this thread on the OP and it you that has failed to make any comment about the OP intelligent or otherwise. ;-)

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