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ORIGINAL: Svale

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear

[sm=diethreaddie.gif]

Can you both just LET IT DROP??? The first thread turned into kind of a trainwreck... Why O why start a second one that most definitely will? BEJEEBUS DAMNATION JUMPIN JEHOSAPHAT... we're not in grade school anymore kidlets, act like the adults you're supposed to be.

POINT...FINAL...BATON... THE. END.

Well, since you don't seem to be into reading, I'll try to simplify it for you.

The concept of "Consent" seems to have gone way beyond a simple "agreement" between two adults to have sex and since I believe that is is all that should be necessary, I'm trying to understand why and what is now considered "necessary".

I don't know why but it seems no one wants to talk about the subject and that too is curious to me and would like to know why?

I believe 'consent' is a clear 'yes'.

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

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I have read profiles of people stating that want to be "raped"/forced and abused, etc.
I am not even sure how that works, are they giving "consent" to be forced/abused?
What happens when they give "consent" to be forced/raped or abused, and in the middle of the activity, they find it is no longer fun, and say no?
If you STOP immediately, was it still consensual?

I am completely surprise that anybody into BDSM is asking this question.

But since I am one of those people who loves "raped" scenarios and have dabbled in it many times since a teen.

Even before I knew BDSM even existed, I mean, was into BDSM, but I just never knew there was a name for it and a scene and proper way to go about it. By "proper", I mean some safety rules.

I already knew to have a secret word that means, "STOP".

So all the pleading, and begging and saying no and crying, the guy does not stop.

Until the "secret word" is mentioned.

It's that simple.

And basically no gags. Even if there is gag, then there is a secret action where you can communicate with the guy to say, this is too much, STOP!

That's how it works!

It's consensual all the way. As safe words or safe signals are pre-negotiated.

It only becomes consensual when pre-agreed secret word is mentioned and the guy refuses to stop.

Of course, let's face it. If you are man who is beating a woman until she bleeds or sticking needles into her (because she wants it). She can easily go to the cops and cry that you abused her. And because there is no way to tell the difference between a genuine abused woman and consensual abused woman. Both have bruises. Both bleed. Both get wounds.

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ORIGINAL: Svale

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


Is anything short of that to be considered “rape” or is there a place somewhere in the spectrum of “consent” where, between two consenting adults, there can be “implied consent”?

Or is the, “two people meet and there is love at first sight and they make mad passionate love and live happily ever after” a thing of the past or is it to be “not without consent forms”?

'Implied' consent does not sound good to me. What is wrong with straight talk so as to avoid any misunderstandings?

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
I don't think anyone was saying there was something wrong with "straight talk" but if consenting adults are allowing things to flow naturally do you feel that is wrong and they should stop everything have some "straight talk" before continuing on?

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ORIGINAL: Svale
But you also started by saying that all these rules are unnecessary, if I read your initial post right. So I am curious, what method would you yourself advocate to avoid unwanted entanglements or rape?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont even think that he knows that consent means its "consensual" so yes

Ah no, although they refer to the same subject, one is a noun the other is a adjective and can not be used interchangeably.

One could say consensual consent for a bit hyperbole and most would consider it to be a bit redundant but it would still be proper English.

you still dont understand the consent part tho, nit picking lazy english while charming, has nothing to do with you not believing that times have actually changed, no matter the hard wired sexual impulses we all have.

Ive enjoyed my sexuality since before I was a teen, I did have a lot of problems with men thinking they had the last word and not in the consensual way.(IE I didnt like the gropes, harassment, touching, and worse)
why should I not get upset about it???
why should I not demand consent?
just wondering.

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ORIGINAL: Shandirra

Here's the short, fast, hard answer to cover all bases about consent...

"NO!" means no.
There's no "maybe", "if", "perhaps". Not even "consensual non-consent".
"NO!" means no.

If someone is impaired; drugs, alcohol, mentally or physically? Consent goes out the window and you keep your fingers, lips, ass, genitalia and any other bits to yourself. Got it??

The minute you step over any of these lines? It's sexual harassment, sexual assault or rape; depending on the seriousness of the allegation. End of discussion. Period. See you in jail! I advocate for pressing charges.

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont even think that he knows that consent means its "consensual" so yes

Ah no, although they refer to the same subject, one is a noun the other is a adjective and can not be used interchangeably.

One could say consensual consent for a bit hyperbole and most would consider it to be a bit redundant but it would still be proper English.

you still dont understand the consent part tho, nit picking lazy english while charming, has nothing to do with you not believing that times have actually changed, no matter the hard wired sexual impulses we all have.

Ive enjoyed my sexuality since before I was a teen, I did have a lot of problems with men thinking they had the last word and not in the consensual way.(IE I didnt like the gropes, harassment, touching, and worse)
why should I not get upset about it???
why should I not demand consent?
just wondering.

Hello hello anybody in there? Can't you actually read?

Hey I've got an idea for you, go back and read this entire thread and point out all those times I've advocated rape, molestation or nonconsensual sex and when you're done perhaps you can apologize to me for not finding any.

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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it seem that most are suggesting that perhaps if they've had more than one beverage, consider it a "first" date and wait for a "second" one.

Yeah, that's hardly surprising, most people are more foam than beer.

Actually, OP here is worried about not being able to tell that the woman is over the alcohol limit(because maybe she drank before meeting him) and then later she cries rape and he gets in trouble.

Can this happen? Of course! Alot of men are thick.

So if he has alot of uncertainty about his own judgement, I would suggest, even if she had one drink. Skip the sex! Don't put yourself at risk.

If ya wanna go ahead and have fun, then live with the consequences IF there are any at all.

You know, end of the day, everything is a risk.

And honestly when it comes to sex for both men and woman! Everyone needs to starts building their inner intuition.

For example, I was reading about this woman sharing her experience on her second date with some guy she met online. And when she arrived, her date already have her drink there for her. Her sixth sense tells her something is wrong. So she told the date that she didn't like what he ordered, told him to drink her portion and she ordered a new drink. The date refused to drink her drink. The whole date went through, and her drink was left untouched.

She suspected he added something into it.

I would seriously never think of that especially when this is second date already. I mean so many things could happen. These are like almost things ya need to warn your daughters about.

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ORIGINAL: Greta75
I have no idea why you keep saying "consenting" adults.

IF there is consent, there is zero problem. As long as it's consensual by both parties, then everything is fine.

The real problem is, is when there is no consent but the guy, mistakes it as consent. That's your own risk to take when it flows naturally, it's all about instinct and gut and not cold hard facts.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I dont even think that he knows that consent means its "consensual" so yes

Ah no, although they refer to the same subject, one is a noun the other is a adjective and can not be used interchangeably.

One could say consensual consent for a bit hyperbole and most would consider it to be a bit redundant but it would still be proper English.

you still dont understand the consent part tho, nit picking lazy english while charming, has nothing to do with you not believing that times have actually changed, no matter the hard wired sexual impulses we all have.

Ive enjoyed my sexuality since before I was a teen, I did have a lot of problems with men thinking they had the last word and not in the consensual way.(IE I didnt like the gropes, harassment, touching, and worse)
why should I not get upset about it???
why should I not demand consent?
just wondering.

Hello hello anybody in there? Can't you actually read?

Hey I've got an idea for you, go back and read this entire thread and point out all those times I've advocated rape, molestation or nonconsensual sex and when you're done perhaps you can apologize to me for not finding any.

I dont think you can comprehend, you didnt respond to anything in my post, Im not sure how you fabricated that post out of mine.
try again.
you have written nothing that deserves an apology.
Im not reading that stupidity again.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
I dont think you can comprehend, you didnt respond to anything in my post, Im not sure how you fabricated that post out of mine.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
you still dont understand the consent part tho, nit picking lazy english while charming, has nothing to do with you not believing that times have actually changed, no matter the hard wired sexual impulses we all have.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Ive enjoyed my sexuality since before I was a teen, I did have a lot of problems with men thinking they had the last word and not in the consensual way.(IE I didnt like the gropes, harassment, touching, and worse)

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
why should I not get upset about it???

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
why should I not demand consent?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

theres nothing in my post that is a lie, thats YOUR opinion, not fact.

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

theres nothing in my post that is a lie, thats YOUR opinion, not fact.

Straight up fact and not opinion.

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
I started this thread so people who say stupid things like; "consent is yes means yes and no means no" would see that it "ain't necessarily so". People like you who have said you like "rape" scenes should realize that sometimes no actually means yes and another predetermined word or action is actually no. Also the reason I brought up being over the alcohol limit is to show that yes sometimes does not mean yes but should be considered a no instead.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

theres nothing in my post that is a lie, thats YOUR opinion, not fact.

Straight up fact and not opinion.

Im really sorry for you.
I know someone is buying your bs, but it aint me.

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ORIGINAL: Greta75

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
I started this thread so people who say stupid things like; "consent is yes means yes and no means no" would see that it "ain't necessarily so". People like you who have said you like "rape" scenes should realize that sometimes no actually means yes and another predetermined word or action is actually no. Also the reason I brought up being over the alcohol limit is to show that yes sometimes does not mean yes but should be considered a no instead.

Wait so now you are claiming you are doing a public service to educate men properly that, "Yes" can be mean "No" in certain circumstances?

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
theres nothing in my post that is a lie, thats YOUR opinion, not fact.

Straight up fact and not opinion.

Im really sorry for you.
I know someone is buying your bs, but it aint me.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Going to give this a shot.

Speaking also as a person who, in my younger days, absolutely has gone to the bar, had a few, (sometimes more than a few) and hooked up, yes, plenty of people did that. The key element about that today is that we have more information about how alcohol and other substances effect the brain, impair the ability to consent, along with poor reasoning and motor skills. It's something along with, remember how many people back in the 80's (before M.A.D.D. came to be) would say how they were better drivers when under the influence, and then we found out scientifically why that isn't true? It was researched and tested and proven that it wasn't true. With this new information, some of us, including myself, had to be more responsible people, because we had more awareness about intoxication and learned it probably wasn't the best time to be driving a car.

Whether a person agrees with the premise of a certain alcohol level impairing consent or not, we know the position that the criminal justice system has on it. With this information, I'd probably have to say that if a person can't legally drive, it might be a good idea to consider that their ability to consent may also be impaired, and it also might be a good idea to put the plans on sex on hold until you KNOW they aren't impaired. If two people are really sexually interested in each other, choosing to meet up at another time isn't going to ruin anything.

I'm going to add something. I'm actually not against people indulging with drinks prior to sex and even not one of the 'don't ever drink and kink' people. People are adults and perfectly capable of making their own choices. However, I'm big on the term risk aware consensual kink and that means a person should be able to evaluate risk vrs reward. If I feel I'm in the position that I need a signed consent form, witnessed by two other people, and blah, blah, blah... My personal risk is probably too high and I'll pass.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
My personal opinion is that I would greatly prefer what is known as "enthusiastic consent," which means yes, at some time or another, I'm going to make the other person tell me I have it. I even believe in blanket consent, where I'm given consent from that time on to do whatever I want, with the stipulation that such consent can be removed by either party at any time. It's not a subject that I yo-yo on. I either have blanket consent or I don't. It's not like I had it Tuesday, it got removed Thursday, and Friday we're back to blanket consent again.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
What's with all this bit about consent forms? Are you running a club or getting specific written consent to hold the copyrights on pictures of play? The latter is something I've actually done because I get specific written consent for pictures of wax work and stuff like that if I am going to post them. Same thing for me, though. At any time, any person can ask me to take a picture of them down, and I have no problem removing it from my use that had been agreed on prior. That's just respecting other people.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
As a casual player, I am rather fond of putting into my negotiations prior to play that I get a check in email from the bottom the following day. This is for a) is the other person experiencing any form of sub-drop and b) do they feel we remained within whatever limits for play we had negotiated. I'm a closed poly person so casual sex doesn't come into it.