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RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:39:47 AM   
heavyblinker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Secondly, you are right, for the most part, point of owning a gun is to kill, however the point for 99.9999999% of gun owners is not to kill a human being.


Is that an official statistic?

Even on this board you have people who are constantly talking about defending themselves from some unknown enemy, the government, etc.
I would argue that once you've decided to become a gun owner, some part of you becomes really attached to the idea of using it for a variety of purposes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
And as for the question, why does someone go out and kill someone, well its been going on since the first cave man figured out that fixing a rock to a chunk of wood is better than trying to kill something with its bare hands.

Gunpowder was invented by the chinese and was originally used to in festivals and whatever to scare off evil spirits and demons. Then one bright, industrious individual figured out that if you attached those rockets to arrows, they go further and really do a number on enemy troops.

From rocket propelled arrows it went to cannons, to hand held firearms.

Of course, crossbows were developed to punch through plate armor worn by knights and men at arms.

Bottom line, humans are predators, they will kill for sport, food, or because they wake up one day and decide they are going to kill a bunch of people. And they use whatever they have to do it.

Guns were available to Jack the Ripper, he chose a knife, Albert DeSalvo used nylons to strangle his victims, Timothy McVeigh built a bomb.

And this guy used a rifle that is not sold in any standard gun retailer since it was specifically designed and marketed to law enforcement.


You are talking about a lot of different scenarios here that have no bearing on mass shootings.

Obviously during war, weapons are going to be used.
This wasn't an act of war, it wasn't a battle... it was a senseless slaughter.
Serial killers usually don't slaughter tens or dozens of people in a few minutes... they do it in secret.
This definitely wasn't a secret.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
But of course, the anti gun folks are screaming 'gun,' when the real question is, how did a man denied on a back ground check come into possession of a gun that is a) not marketed to the general public and b) he got it after a background check showed he was prohibited from purchasing a gun in the first place.

Hell to modify a standard rugar AR type rifle to fit that police model would run a few grand, just for the add ons.


I think they are screaming 'gun' because 27+ people were killed by a gun.
There is no 'real' question.

There is a series of questions, all of them totally relevant.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:42:06 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Man and he became a damn bible study teacher at a different branch of this specific church he shot at AFTER he assaulted his wife and kids.

It wasn't AFTER. That was BEFORE.

In this instance, it might be helpful for you to read the articles more carefully.




He worked in logistics and supply in the Air Force until he was kicked out for assaulting his wife and their child. Kelley was court-martialled for two counts of assaulting his spouse and kid, and received 12 months 'confinement' and a dishonorable discharge in 2014, CBS reported. Kelley then volunteered as a teacher for Bible studies at Kingsville First Baptist Church, according to his LinkedIn which shows him posing which a young child.



I read it carefully, he was employed as a bible study teacher AFTER he assaulted his wife.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:44:23 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

ok shit is all you have to offer, congratulations,
just like the vegas killer.

And just like the vegas killer, the police will have ZERO answers because killer is dead.

I simply piece things together with whatever information at hand. The police cannot confirm it as they don't have the killer alive to confirm it.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:47:38 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
He worked in logistics and supply in the Air Force until he was kicked out for assaulting his wife and their child. Kelley was court-martialled for two counts of assaulting his spouse and kid, and received 12 months 'confinement' and a dishonorable discharge in 2014, CBS reported. Kelley then volunteered as a teacher for Bible studies at Kingsville First Baptist Church, according to his LinkedIn which shows him posing which a young child.



I read it carefully, he was employed as a bible study teacher AFTER he assaulted his wife.


But not after he started claiming on FB that he was an atheist. They are separate things.

(By the way, being a volunteer and being employed in a position are also two different things.)



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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:48:33 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		simply wrong is more like
SO is he still atheist? or domestic violence, or both.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:49:07 AM   
Greta75


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I don't wanna blame guns in this incident because in this case, IF somebody had a damn gun in the church and was a good shooter, maybe less people might be killed if someone just head shot the damn shooter before the police arrive.

And if there were no guns, he would have probably chose to bomb this church by some home made shit. Or poison their holy water! I mean gazillion things he could have done, as this was a vindictive revenge towards members of this church.

He was determined to get them, he will.

But Las Vegas situation is seriously a gun control problem! Because everything was legal!

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:49:48 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
He worked in logistics and supply in the Air Force until he was kicked out for assaulting his wife and their child. Kelley was court-martialled for two counts of assaulting his spouse and kid, and received 12 months 'confinement' and a dishonorable discharge in 2014, CBS reported. Kelley then volunteered as a teacher for Bible studies at Kingsville First Baptist Church, according to his LinkedIn which shows him posing which a young child.



I read it carefully, he was employed as a bible study teacher AFTER he assaulted his wife.


But not after he started claiming on FB that he was an atheist. They are separate things.

(By the way, being a volunteer and being employed in a position are also two different things.)



excellent points....


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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:50:54 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

simply wrong is more like
SO is he still atheist? or domestic violence, or both.

I don't think there is any question that he is an Atheist.

Domestic violence is not a religion. So I don't know what you are comparing.


(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:51:14 AM   
JVoV


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Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		Not totally true. This wasn't just seemingly random violence against people he had never met, as in Vegas.

The Texas shooter's in-laws had gone to this church. He had social media accounts. There will be something to find.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 9:59:11 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		First of all, Let's not cut off what you said. You were arguing that he was a bible study teacher BEFORE he assaulted his wife. So now you are changing your story and adding the "atheist" thing. To me there is no difference between "volunteering" and being "employed" to be bible studies teacher first of all, BECAUSE, would you allow a pedophile to volunteer in a pre-school? I mean what's the difference if he was Paid or Not Paid for it?

Secondly let's get this timeline that you and lucy are so confuse about.

1) Still Christian in Military
2) Still Christian Beat Wife
3) Still Christian Bible Studies Teacher
4) Turn Atheist then attack the Church (At this point he was no longer a bible study teacher but working as a security guard)


Is this clear enough?


quote:


ORIGINAL: LadyPact
quote:


ORIGINAL: Greta75
Man and he became a damn bible study teacher at a different branch of this specific church he shot at AFTER he assaulted his wife and kids.



It wasn't AFTER. That was BEFORE.

In this instance, it might be helpful for you to read the articles more carefully.




quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
He worked in logistics and supply in the Air Force until he was kicked out for assaulting his wife and their child. Kelley was court-martialled for two counts of assaulting his spouse and kid, and received 12 months 'confinement' and a dishonorable discharge in 2014, CBS reported. Kelley then volunteered as a teacher for Bible studies at Kingsville First Baptist Church, according to his LinkedIn which shows him posing which a young child.



I read it carefully, he was employed as a bible study teacher AFTER he assaulted his wife.


But not after he started claiming on FB that he was an atheist. They are separate things.

(By the way, being a volunteer and being employed in a position are also two different things.)




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Profile   Post #: 90
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wickedsdesires


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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:08:51 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Not totally true. This wasn't just seemingly random violence against people he had never met, as in Vegas.

The Texas shooter's in-laws had gone to this church. He had social media accounts. There will be something to find.

Well I hope the police will find the motive then.

But it seems all connected. I mean for gawd's sake. His wife is ALSO a teacher in this First Baptist Church. He was also a Teacher in this First Baptist Church. Clearly he knows alot of people in this First Baptist Church which has different branches and the first place they need to look for answers is question the First Baptist why the hell they employ a wife beater to teach bible studies. And was he terminated or ask to leave? Did he take it well?

I am totally mad at this church for employing this douche ESPECIALLY when his wife was their employee and they actually condone employing a man AFTER he beat up their employee.

What bullshit is this!

And this is so fucking possible, because I have attended some catholic church lunatic here teachings that tells a wife to forgive her husband for beating her, that divorce is the greater sin.

Probably why they are still married too!

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:11:22 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline 		Greta, do you honestly think he had finally discovered the joys of atheism or he just declared himself an atheist because everyone in the church rejected him?
I didn't know him personally but from what I've read, he really didn't seem like the type to develop a sophisticated appreciation of the arguments in favor of there being no omnipotent deity or deities controlling the universe.

Time will tell what really happened, but I think that this is a simple case of an angry, lonely, ostracized kid who loved guns and decided to get revenge on the world for rejecting him.
You can pretend that this is a mental illness, pretend that it's ideological, pretend that it's about not having enough Jesus in his life-- but none of that really fits.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:13:37 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

Greta, do you honestly think he had finally discovered the joys of atheism or he just declared himself an atheist because everyone in the church rejected him?


I think he is a typical ex Christian Atheist who is angry with his god and the followers. That's it. Every Ex Christian Atheist I speak to and ask about their conversion is always because of anger of something personal happening in their lives not going well and praying didn't save them. Definitely some Christians can aggravate his anger by being unfriendly to him after he stops being Christian. I don't think it has anything to do with his wife beating BECAUSE the dumb church employed him to teach bible studies after he beat his wife. And because the wife was an ex employee of that church so I am super sure SHE WAS responsible for his employment after he got laid off at that church.

But I think maybe he fuck up in bible studies and was asked to leave. And then the eventual leaving Christianity too. Probably cause alot of aggravation to a violent personality like him.

I mean his wife was also an ex-employee in that church. She probably has alot of friends she confines to from that church, where her parents attend. I mean hell, it's all connected. It's very personal revenge on the whole damn church.



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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:17:05 AM   
MasterDrakk


Posts: 321
Status: offline 		people who are mad at gods deface and destroy the buildings.
people who are mad at people shoot people.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:18:28 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk
people who are mad at gods deface and destroy the buildings.
people who are mad at people shoot people.


It depends. If you are mad at god, you might wanna hurt him by killing his people and daring God to rescue them.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:22:34 AM   
MasterDrakk


Posts: 321
Status: offline 		Yeah, no. The logic of that would escape people who kill people.

Show me serial killers who were mad at god (any god) and killed 'his' people on a dare to god.


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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:22:34 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline 		If you read what's out there, it seems like he was angry at the people around him and there was absolutely no religious component to it whatsoever.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:24:17 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker
Time will tell what really happened, but I think that this is a simple case of an angry, lonely, ostracized kid who loved guns and decided to get revenge on the world for rejecting him.
You can pretend that this is a mental illness, pretend that it's ideological, pretend that it's about not having enough Jesus in his life-- but none of that really fits.

Ostracized by his church that is. Not the world. Something bad happened in relation to that church that made him break faith and go off the deep end. Plus you know how Christians like to call Atheist sons of Satans and all that crap. So he might decided to just do Satan's work is to kill Christians.

And I know because when a Christian, the super fundie ones always equate Atheism to Satanism, like it's exactly the same thing. It's either God's side or Satan's side. So a Christian leaving Christianity in anger may decide to do something that he was taught what Satan was all about. And associate Satanism as Atheism.

(PS: I am aware the Church of Satan has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity but I am saying that Ex-Christians while being Christians learn that Atheism is Satanism, the Christianity version of it. So even when they think themselves as Atheist, they may think of themselves as doing the devil's work, which is to destroy Christian people. And which ones to start first? How about the ones that piss you off the most?)

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:28:19 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		he was a nasty violent white man with a gun. Violent with both his wife and child, and now, the MIL and her church.

hes been planning this for a while, when did he convert to "atheism"?



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Profile   Post #: 100
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