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RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:32:13 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

simply wrong is more like
SO is he still atheist? or domestic violence, or both.

I don't think there is any question that he is an Atheist.

Domestic violence is not a religion. So I don't know what you are comparing.



being a christian is not a cure for domestic violence
I agree with you, but you stated he was a MILITANT Atheist.
Im saying he is a violent ass no matter his religion.
or lack of one.

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RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:32:47 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

If you read what's out there, it seems like he was angry at the people around him and there was absolutely no religious component to it whatsoever.

But the fact that he coincidentally lost faith all at the same time. I feel there is. I personally find it very significant that someone can go from bible study teacher to Atheist. It's like a very deep altering thing within.

I am not blaming Atheism for this specifically, as there is no guide book on what an Atheist is suppose to do except, not believe in God.

But I am just saying that, his change to Atheism was a symptom of what was to come.

Very angry person.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:41:33 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
being a christian is not a cure for domestic violence

I never said that Christianity is a cure for his domestic violence at all.
I don't even know how is that anything I said, the fact that I said that he commited domestic violence and then became a bible study teacher, tells me he did that all WHILE being christian.

I am just saying that his attack the church level of violence takes becoming an Atheist from specifically being a Christian in the past to get there. Because he needs to feel that he is no longer beholden to his God.

I think sometimes a religious person who has used God as a clutch for the longest time, is somewhat dangerous when they start being Godless. Because they were religious in the first place because they believe they need religion to know about morals and good.

So shedding the religion is like also throwing all the morals and good out of the window. I don't know, I feel like Christians have this impression of Atheist that Atheist has no God so no moral compass.

And this is the danger when a Christian stops being Christian. Nothing else holding him back from having zero moral compass. It's their perception of Atheism that is the problem and what they interprete Atheism to be.

As for domestic violence in Christianity, I had enough Muslim apologists explain to me how Christianity is pro domestic violence too, not just Islam. If this dude believed in any of those outrageous interpretation (which very likely comes from extremist christians), of course he'd end up committing domestic violence too.

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:45:36 AM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

If you read what's out there, it seems like he was angry at the people around him and there was absolutely no religious component to it whatsoever.

But the fact that he coincidentally lost faith all at the same time. I feel there is. I personally find it very significant that someone can go from bible study teacher to Atheist. It's like a very deep altering thing within.

I am not blaming Atheism for this specifically, as there is no guide book on what an Atheist is suppose to do except, not believe in God.

But I am just saying that, his change to Atheism was a symptom of what was to come.

Very angry person.


I think beating his wife and kid was a bigger warning sign.

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:48:38 AM   
Greta75


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ORIGINAL: JVoV
I think beating his wife and kid was a bigger warning sign.

Alot of men beat their wives.

But 99.9% doesn't lead up to mass killing of loads of people.

So I don't think the wife and kid beating was any sign.

On top of that, it wasn't too long ago where beating of wife was legal in America. Only made illegal in 1920's.

And wikipedia claims that 60% of Native American women suffers domestic violence due to their culture.

Infact even in my old culture, as early as my grandparents time. Both my grandfathers were wife beaters. And both my grandma used to tell me about it, and they talk about it, like their husband has the right to beat them when angry.

And as we are just a 50 yr old country, my grandparents were during British rule time, when they didn't even ban wife beating apparently in my country.

As for how the conversion to atheism could be a warning of unstability. This has to depend on his reasons for conversion. Usually just a normal church going dude, converts, I wouldn't be too worried.

For me, he is at the level where he is qualified as a bible teacher.

Like if a pastor turn atheist too, I'd be really worried and just wanna know his logic and reasoning to that conversion. To make sure it was a calm one and not out of anger. I'd watch this guy if it was an anger type of conversion.

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RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:56:15 AM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		And how many people have a crisis of faith on any given day?

27 people murdered in a church. How many good Christians have asked 'what kid of God lets that happen'?

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 10:59:38 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

And how many people have a crisis of faith on any given day?

27 people murdered in a church. How many good Christians have asked 'what kid of God lets that happen'?


Actually good Christians should process death as a celebration in my opinion because they get to reunite with God faster than the ones left on earth.

And since the dying is not their own fault, they got a good chance of going heaven provided they been good in life.

I thought the end game is to die and go to heaven anyway, if it happens sooner, great!

But my point is, it's not just any Christian, but how "fundie" this Christian is, or how "pious".

As I said, Casual Christians converting, I wouldn't worry.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:01:10 AM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		It's not like this happened at Westboro.

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RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:06:17 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

It's not like this happened at Westboro.

I have huge concerns about how is it possible for this dude to become a bible teacher at this Church after being convicted for assaulting his wife who was an employee at this church.

This spells fundie to me. As I mention earlier, I have heard crazy catholic pastors explain to their church members that, if your husband beats you, forgive him and help him change. Divorcing him would be a great sin.

It sounds like the wife forgave him and was trying to help him and clearly, he was qualified enough at least with knowledge to teach bible studies.

To tell me he was more deep into Christianity than a normal Christian.

And I'd love to hear how is First Baptist Church gonna defend this! They would have to claim that he has great credentials to be a bible study teacher.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:11:57 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
He worked in logistics and supply in the Air Force until he was kicked out for assaulting his wife and their child. Kelley was court-martialled for two counts of assaulting his spouse and kid, and received 12 months 'confinement' and a dishonorable discharge in 2014, CBS reported. Kelley then volunteered as a teacher for Bible studies at Kingsville First Baptist Church, according to his LinkedIn which shows him posing which a young child.



I read it carefully, he was employed as a bible study teacher AFTER he assaulted his wife.


But not after he started claiming on FB that he was an atheist. They are separate things.

(By the way, being a volunteer and being employed in a position are also two different things.)



doubt he gtold them he had spent gime in a military prison.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:19:33 AM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

It's not like this happened at Westboro.

I have huge concerns about how is it possible for this dude to become a bible teacher at this Church after being convicted for assaulting his wife who was an employee at this church.

This spells fundie to me. As I mention earlier, I have heard crazy catholic pastors explain to their church members that, if your husband beats you, forgive him and help him change. Divorcing him would be a great sin.

It sounds like the wife forgave him and was trying to help him and clearly, he was qualified enough at least with knowledge to teach bible studies.

To tell me he was more deep into Christianity than a normal Christian.

And I'd love to hear how is First Baptist Church gonna defend this! They would have to claim that he has great credentials to be a bible study teacher.



Yeah, she forgave his ass, she left him.

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RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:26:05 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Same tired arguments and the killing goes on. You are as much to blame as the insane killers themselves.




Another militant atheist, just like these guys:



Get back to us when you really care about mass shootings and not just taking away the people's means of defending themselves


Bosco There are only two reasons for the type of weapon that has killed hundreds in the last few years... the first is killing people... the second is fun. Defense is not a reason as there are many other less lethal weapons that will do that just fine. I think it is selfish and arrogant of anyone that would not give up or alter their toys to save lives. And by advocating the free distribution of these weapons they are as guilty as the person pulling the trigger to kill innocents.

Those that refuse tighter gun controls such as periodical mental evaluations for gun ownership are also guilty of murder in my book. This has nothing to do with the second amendment but only common sense changes to gun laws that would only help protect us all from the criminal and irresponsible use of guns.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:30:49 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
I think beating his wife and kid was a bigger warning sign.

Alot of men beat their wives.

But 99.9% doesn't lead up to mass killing of loads of people.



https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides-women/534306/

The CDC analyzed the murders of women in 18 states from 2003 to 2014, finding a total of 10,018 deaths. Of those, 55 percent were intimate partner violence-related, meaning they occurred at the hands of a former or current partner or the partner’s family or friends.


http://www.npr.org/2017/06/05/530519844/most-mass-shootings-are-smaller-domestic-tragedies


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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:37:07 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Same tired arguments and the killing goes on. You are as much to blame as the insane killers themselves.




Another militant atheist, just like these guys:



Get back to us when you really care about mass shootings and not just taking away the people's means of defending themselves


Bosco There are only two reasons for the type of weapon that has killed hundreds in the last few years... the first is killing people... the second is fun. Defense is not a reason as there are many other less lethal weapons that will do that just fine. I think it is selfish and arrogant of anyone that would not give up or alter their toys to save lives. And by advocating the free distribution of these weapons they are as guilty as the person pulling the trigger to kill innocents.

Those that refuse tighter gun controls such as periodical mental evaluations for gun ownership are also guilty of murder in my book. This has nothing to do with the second amendment but only common sense changes to gun laws that would only help protect us all from the criminal and irresponsible use of guns.

Butch



_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:37:36 AM   
Danemora


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

It's not like this happened at Westboro.

I have huge concerns about how is it possible for this dude to become a bible teacher at this Church after being convicted for assaulting his wife who was an employee at this church.

This spells fundie to me. As I mention earlier, I have heard crazy catholic pastors explain to their church members that, if your husband beats you, forgive him and help him change. Divorcing him would be a great sin.

It sounds like the wife forgave him and was trying to help him and clearly, he was qualified enough at least with knowledge to teach bible studies.

To tell me he was more deep into Christianity than a normal Christian.

And I'd love to hear how is First Baptist Church gonna defend this! They would have to claim that he has great credentials to be a bible study teacher.


Greta, it works a bit differently. Bible study classes, vacation bible school, etc at churches tend to be parishioners volunteering to do this. They are not paid employees of the church itself. There are no official credentials you need to have as someone would becoming a licensed teacher in the school systems.


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RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:44:52 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk

Yes, it could only be clear to you, thats why he drove 40 miles to the church his ex-inlaws
attended rather than a megachurch in San Antonio, near him, where he could have killed many more xtians.

You got a handle on this, like nobody else does.


is that you mnottertroll?

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:55:15 AM   
Greta75


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Status: offline 		FR - Whatever I said earlier was gleamed from OP's article by the Daily Mail.

My local papers has explain this whole story alot clearer now! But I find it interesting that my local papers fail to mention he was a bible study teacher. Probably due to local censorship as it's like associating a bible study teacher with a wife beater and killer type of thing. Which means sowing distrust in religious community. (Our local laws)

http://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/texas-church-gunman-had-history-of-disturbing-behaviour

I thought the wife he beat up and the wife he is currently married to is the same woman. Apparently the wife whom he beat divorced him and then after he came out of prison, he married the current wife. THIS MAKES SENSE NOW! Because his current wife was an employee of First Baptist Church who helped him get this bible study gig. And that he sent threatening text messages to his mom in law. Still unclear what is the dispute. Still I stand by church should not employ people convicted of any violent act to become bible studies teacher.

But I am glad his first wife left him.

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 11:57:28 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora
Greta, it works a bit differently. Bible study classes, vacation bible school, etc at churches tend to be parishioners volunteering to do this. They are not paid employees of the church itself. There are no official credentials you need to have as someone would becoming a licensed teacher in the school systems.

Still a church cannot just allow just any volunteer to do this job right? I mean isn't this segment about educating kids about Christianity? It's a pretty serious job from a Church stand point, if they wanted future loyal followers to be fed the correct information.

(in reply to Danemora)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 12:10:11 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
I think beating his wife and kid was a bigger warning sign.

Alot of men beat their wives.

But 99.9% doesn't lead up to mass killing of loads of people.



https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides-women/534306/

The CDC analyzed the murders of women in 18 states from 2003 to 2014, finding a total of 10,018 deaths. Of those, 55 percent were intimate partner violence-related, meaning they occurred at the hands of a former or current partner or the partner’s family or friends.


http://www.npr.org/2017/06/05/530519844/most-mass-shootings-are-smaller-domestic-tragedies


A majority of mass shootings — especially those with fewer than 10 victims — involve domestic violence.

If you read further, majority of mass shooting occur in the home of the killer. That's why it's fewer than 10 victims. Because he probably just kills his wife, his kid and whatever friends or family came to interfere. That's not really a mass shooting at all.

As mass shooting is like walking into a concert, a church, a school to spray bullets at people. Domestic violence cause the death of 4 victims the most which they consider this mass shootings! How is this comparable? 4 victims???? Makes sense for home murdering. Maybe mom and 3 kids. I wouldn't call it mass shooting.


Will a man who beat his wife be fully capable of killing his wife?
100% YES

But that is not mass shooting. The link you provided shows that there is zero domestic violence cases in killings of 10 to 12 people. And only 2 mass shooting in history of 12 mass shooting, which is like only 16.7%. That is soooo not majority of mass shooting cases.

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: At "least" 27 People killed in Texas church - 11/6/2017 12:24:11 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Please STOP this world, I want to get off now!

At least 27 people have been killed in a Texas church.

Gunman in full combat dress, opens fire in a Sutherland Springs, Texas church this morning.

Daily Mail- Texas gunman shoots at least 27 people in a church

No words


I'm with you Marini, WTF is wrong with people? so sad

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Profile   Post #: 120
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