quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You want to blame guns?

WHO are you talking to?
What is the difference between say Canada, UK, France, Germany and the US regarding murder rates?
Now the difference between them and gun deaths

You can try to squirrel out of it, but the fact is that guns in the hands of killers are EXACTLY the problem.
so no its not blaming guns, its blaming the nutballs that have guns handily available.

Does that mean that americans simply have more people that want to kill people ?
or that the rest of the civilised world is sane?


You want to bring up mcveigh as proof its guns arent as deadly as explosives? wow what a concept. who knew.
Now the fact that the airforce forgot to input his conviction, isnt an excuse, it shows how badly current laws need to be beefed up. that in itself is a excellent reason to tighten rules...until people are properly checked, and info complete.

OOpsie, 26 people died, he got a gun. in fact it seems he has been buying them in the past 4 years (before his conviction anyway)

400-450 rounds, it tells me he wouldnt have had that chance, had it not been a AR type rifle. lets give everyone a level playing field and make sure everyone has one. OR enforce the fucking laws that arent working.

Trump removed the rules on mental health, that will really help.

Its simply a mental health problem?, no it isnt... Millions and millions of people around the world have mental health issues, mental healthcare being readily available to everyone would be good, but it isnt, really, in ANY country (maybe one of the scandinavian countries, but certainly not in the UK, US, Canada, South America, etc)
Across the world crime is a problem, murder is a problem, but gun deaths? not in the same numbers as the US.
what is the major cause of gun deaths?
killers with guns.
Mostly men too.

Now that brave chap who had a gun in his vehicle is a hero, yes, I cant fault him or his bravery and courage, Im glad he managed to hit the guy, and the two guys who chased him off. I take my hat off to them.

As Im so often told I dont have the right to vote to change anything. Right now, I wish I could send the victims and their families more than my condolences. Prayers and thoughts dont stop the slaughter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

... I was just thinking: Can you get a one-click 'thoughts and prayers' app for Android? That could make things a lot more quick and efficient in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Well... I know 526 people in the last few months...some of which can only talk from the grave that would not agree with you.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I just read that the Air Force apparently failed to enter the shooter's court martial, conviction, and dishonorable discharge into the background check database.

What the fuck good do laws do if government entities don't take the time to follow them?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Lucy the time will come when the Democrats are back in control of Congress and the presidency. I keep telling our Republican friends that they are making a mistake in blocking reasonable gun laws now. When that time comes there will be a strong crackdown on gun owners that would not happen if they were reasonable today. In the past Democratic controlled congresses have not pursued strict gun control despite the NRA scare tactics. That will not be the case when they regain power as the country is sick of children dying at the hands of gun weilding mental cases.

It is a tragedy that until the change in leadership comes many more will needlessly die.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I just read that the Air Force apparently failed to enter the shooter's court martial, conviction, and dishonorable discharge into the background check database.

What the fuck good do laws do if government entities don't take the time to follow them?

I think that his service record is sealed.
The military needs to be required to enter these things into the database.

quote:

On Monday, the Air Force said it failed to follow policies for alerting federal law enforcement about this conviction, which meant he was prohibited “from buying or possessing firearms,” according to Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek.

While serving at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Kelley was convicted of abusing his wife and her child. He spent a year at a Navy brig in San Diego and was then kicked out of the military in 2014 with a bad conduct discharge.

Court-martial documents made public Monday evening state that Kelley kicked, choked and struck his wife in 2011 and 2012. He also struck her young child “on the head and body with a force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm,” according to the documents.

This information was not in the National Criminal Information Center database, which meant that despite a law meant to keep Kelley from obtaining firearms, his gun purchases were apparently able to proceed.
Source

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That was before you and your lot enabled mass killings...Like I told DaddyS...times are changing.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR
I don't wanna blame guns in this incident because in this case, IF somebody had a damn gun in the church and was a good shooter, maybe less people might be killed if someone just head shot the damn shooter before the police arrive.

And if there were no guns, he would have probably chose to bomb this church by some home made shit. Or poison their holy water! I mean gazillion things he could have done, as this was a vindictive revenge towards members of this church.

He was determined to get them, he will.

But Las Vegas situation is seriously a gun control problem! Because everything was legal!

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I just read that the Air Force apparently failed to enter the shooter's court martial, conviction, and dishonorable discharge into the background check database.

What the fuck good do laws do if government entities don't take the time to follow them?

I think that his service record is sealed.
The military needs to be required to enter these things into the database.

By the very words of the US Air Force, his records were not sealed, his conviction, articles that led to conviction (criminal acts in civilian world,) sentence and subsequent dishonorable discharge should have been reported to the National Crime database.

quote:

On Monday, the Air Force said it failed to follow policies for alerting federal law enforcement about this conviction, which meant he was prohibited “from buying or possessing firearms,” according to Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek.

While serving at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Kelley was convicted of abusing his wife and her child. He spent a year at a Navy brig in San Diego and was then kicked out of the military in 2014 with a bad conduct discharge.

Court-martial documents made public Monday evening state that Kelley kicked, choked and struck his wife in 2011 and 2012. He also struck her young child “on the head and body with a force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm,” according to the documents.

This information was not in the National Criminal Information Center database, which meant that despite a law meant to keep Kelley from obtaining firearms, his gun purchases were apparently able to proceed.
Source

Then there is the fact the shooter escaped from a mental facility where he was sent after being caught trying to sneak guns onto the Air Force base where he was convicted, with the intent of carrying out death threats he had made against his former superiors.

This is a violation of article 134 of the UCMJ, and would have been applicable in 2012 when he escaped because he was convicted in November of 2012, after this particular incident.

This little tidbit, violation of art. 134 should have landed his happy ass in military prison for no less than 3 years.

So, with the fact the US Air Force failed to follow procedure to report this guy to the National Crime database, the last of what seems to be a clear failure to follow regulations as well as failure to prosecute this guy under the UCMJ, I have to ask the following question:

What the fuck were the officers in the JAG office at Holloman Air Force base doing? Not to mention the personnel at the Military detention center responsible for submitting this information to the National Crime Database.

Somebody needs to make the following public statement:

We regret to inform the American Citizens that 27 people died due to the complete incompetence of the Judge Advocate General's office at Holloman Air Force base for failing to prosecute an individual to the full extent for crimes committed and for the complete stupidity of that office and the personnel who were responsible for reporting this individuals offenses to the proper authorities that would have prevented him from purchasing the weapons that killed these men, women and children in your community.

I am not sure if this is a sign of the deterioration of the US Military since my time in uniform or what, but back in the day, officers and NCO's alike would nail a guy (or gal) with an article 15 for even a minor lapse of conduct. You did something really stupid, you could count on having the book thrown at you and some time in a retraining center or military prison and dishonorable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I just read that the Air Force apparently failed to enter the shooter's court martial, conviction, and dishonorable discharge into the background check database.

What the fuck good do laws do if government entities don't take the time to follow them?

I think that his service record is sealed.
The military needs to be required to enter these things into the database.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk

why isnt he saying this guy should be executed, what makes him different from the last guy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk

why isnt he saying this guy should be executed, what makes him different from the last guy?

This guy is white.

And already dead. That kinda takes the fun out of executing him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk

why isnt he saying this guy should be executed, what makes him different from the last guy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk

why isnt he saying this guy should be executed, what makes him different from the last guy?

This guy is white.

And already dead. That kinda takes the fun out of executing him.

Also, not from the middle east.
Though I'm sure it would be outrageous PC nonsense to suggest that this is a factor...

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk

why isnt he saying this guy should be executed, what makes him different from the last guy?

Could be that this guy is ALREADY DEAD.