What is included in the definition of Objectification? (Full Version)

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SusanofO -> What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:02:56 AM)

I should probably know this by now, as I seem to read a lot about bdsm topics, but am getting confused about the meaning(s) of this word as it pertains to bdsm activity. Does Objectification include things like pony play and being willing to be treated like, say, a piece of furniture? So - is it being treated as any object at all? A table, footstool or a window curtain or animal? Anything your partner could think of that is not human? (because ponies are animate beings, just are not rocks or furniture (or many other things I guess), just not human, and - I have often heard both of these ideas and activities described as Objectification).

But - I've also heard the term Objectfication used to describe when someone wants their submissive to be for them a "Marilyn Monroe", or stereotypically feminine, "dream girl" kind of figure: Large bust, small waist, dressed in a corset and heels, red lipstick, and stockings, etc., for example.

I know this question might sound ignorant, but - which definition is it? Or is it all of them?

**I really would like to know what the general definition of Objectification really is, and what it includes, or can include (examples are always nice). If there is a general definition. I do appreciate it a lot, and thank you in advance for any replies.

**Also, what does Objectification mean to you (if anything) in particular?

The reason I am asking at all is because I see it listed a lot in people's profiles, and it dawned on me the other day that I don't have a clear general idea of what people may mean, when they refer to appreciating Objectification. I am sure it can vary by person, but there was still enough general lack of clarity about its overall meaning, (for me) to post this thread. 

- Susan



AnAtlantaDom -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:13:01 AM)

In My opinion, due to the nature of each individual D/s M/s couple, it includes what ever the couple wishes it to be.
 
It is a part of the couple's negotiations.  As long as both are interested in whatever it is they should move forward to include it in their "list" of who/what they are or wish to be.
 
Keep in mind that there is a difference between ignorance & stupidity.  Ignorance is repairable, stupidity is not.  [:)]



nephandi -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:13:15 AM)

i think it waris from person to person, but to me it is being treated like a thing, like property, i am somthing owned, like a chair or a dog. Not being a person in my own right but being just property.



SusanofO -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:13:46 AM)

Thank you for your reply.

- Susan



mstrjx -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:14:41 AM)

Susan, those to follow (and there will be dozens on this, I think)

I'm thinking out loud, which will probably make for a crappy post, but here goes.  The first thing I thought about objectification was the inanimate object, ie the footstool or table, or a way to be made useful in that fashion.

Your example of the pony, or by extension puppy or some animal-type being seemed less to me of objectification until I started thinking about it a little more, so I believe I would have to weigh in with a 'yes' there as well.

But it all started to come together with the Marilyn Monroe example.  And I don't believe it has to be a particular 'person', just a particular 'look' or 'type'.  I see some of what I do in that on a different level.

So, if all of these examples, admittedly varied, are objectification, then what is a more succinct definition (rather than going to a dictionary)?

I'm seeing that objectification is treating an individual as anything that is 'different' from that individual.  If I'm taking 'you' and trying to achieve a look or a dynamic that is 'not you', then that would have to be called objectification.  It is apparently a broader category than what I first considered.

When I discuss 'what I like' with someone for the first time, I wouldn't necessarily want to say 'Yeah, I'm deep into objectification', because I think to the less open-minded the word has somewhat negative connotations (and I really don't like scaring people off).  However, there is, as I said before, a 'look' that I like to achieve that would certainly qualify.

Wonderful question.  Hope this helped.

Jeff



SusanofO -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:16:02 AM)

Something owned like property. Thanks, nephandi, I appreciate the reply.

Thanks to anyone who replies, btw. [:)]

- Susan  



SusanofO -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:19:26 AM)

Thank you mstrjx; your reply did sort of tie it all together for me. Appreciate it.

- Susan



littlechameleon -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:25:49 AM)

This is just an opinion, of course, but I think objectification entails more than being owned property.  It's always been my understanding that objectification meant being used as a stool, table, ashtray holder, etc.  And then there is sexual objectification - whereas you are just used as a 'hole'.  (for lack of a better expression.)  I know personally, there are times where i'm not to move or make a sound.  I considered that sexual objectification.

The Marilyn Monroe example you gave and the pony example - wouldn't fall into MY understanding of objectification.



SusanofO -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:27:33 AM)

That is a helpful delineation: Sexual and not sexual. Thank you.

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 6:52:32 AM)

I'm not trying to "cause trouble" here, I really wanna know more...[:)]
I certainly hope more people reply to this thread (and of course appreciate those who have replied so far).

- Susan



CreativeDominant -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 7:18:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I should probably know this by now, as I seem to read a lot about bdsm topics, but am getting confused about the meaning(s) of this word as it pertains to bdsm activity. Does Objectification include things like pony play and being willing to be treated like, say, a piece of furniture? So - is it being treated as any object at all? A table, footstool or a window curtain or animal? Anything your partner could think of that is not human? (because ponies are animate beings, just are not rocks or furniture (or many other things I guess), just not human, and - I have often heard both of these ideas and activities described as Objectification).

But - I've also heard the term Objectfication used to describe when someone wants their submissive to be for them a "Marilyn Monroe", or stereotypically feminine, "dream girl" kind of figure: Large bust, small waist, dressed in a corset and heels, red lipstick, and stockings, etc., for example.

I know this question might sound ignorant, but - which definition is it? Or is it all of them?

**I really would like to know what the general definition of Objectification really is, and what it includes, or can include (examples are always nice). If there is a general definition. I do appreciate it a lot, and thank you in advance for any replies.

**Also, what does Objectification mean to you (if anything) in particular?

The reason I am asking at all is because I see it listed a lot in people's profiles, and it dawned on me the other day that I don't have a clear general idea of what people may mean, when they refer to appreciating Objectification. I am sure it can vary by person, but there was still enough general lack of clarity about its overall meaning, (for me) to post this thread. 
- Susan


Another good question, Susan...[:)]

For me, objectification is when I have the submissive become the "submissive as useful object of my desires", whatever my desires are at the time.  This can range from furniture (I need a good footstool that moves to the position I need it to be) to entertaining me through, let's say, amusement by humiliation ("Crawl like a dog...beg like a puppy...show me how puppylike-eager you are to please me), to artistic/aesthetic appeal (someone mentioned M. Monroe...though I might pick someone else to have a submissive dress up as, posing and acting as that person would be done in an attempt to achieve my appreciation, not theirs), to a sexual-gratification tool. 

I'm sure many can find somewhere else along this line that they could add in so as to broaden the number of examples of "human as useful object"



SusanofO -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 7:20:37 AM)

Thanhks for the  reply, Creative.

- Susan



nephandi -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 8:13:45 AM)

i know the being just a hole objectification is somthing that make me feel wery submissive, when noting aboute you matters, you are just a hole to be hused for his plessure. Yes to me that to is objectification.



ownedgirlie -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 8:20:46 AM)

Susan,  In my dynamic it is pretty literal.  I am his object, to use as he wishes.  Be it footstool or table, a whipping post, or be it nothing more than a masturbation toy for him - a cum repository, so to speak.  A hole to use.  The "person" is removed from the equation and I become a universal tool which can transform to other items when/where/how he wishes.  He might dress me up as he wishes - into a different type of person or even a different species.  He might use me for toilet service. He might use me as a pillow. He might use me as a demo for someone else. What it boils down to for me is that I am whatever object or thing he wants me to be at any given time.  I am a piece of owned property which has universal uses.  Hence, an object.  For some, objectification brings about feelings of humiliation.  For others, it makes them feel peaceful and useful.  For me, it can have either, or both effects, depending on what object I am being used as.



SusanofO -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 9:54:56 AM)

That is a very explanatory and comprehensive definition, owned girlie.
Thank you very much for the reply.

nephandi: You said much the same thing, for being a sexual "hole" object. Appreciate the reply.

- Susan [:)] 



popeye1250 -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 10:06:28 AM)

Susan, funny about that Marylyn Monroe thing that you mentioned. I once saw a personals ad where a woman wanted a wealthy guy who'd pay for all her plastic surgery operations to make her look like Marylyn Monroe.
That seems to be a fairly common fantasy and yes, I do think it's Objectification if you're becomming another person or thing like a Pony Girl.
If you're becomming another person you'd be giving up your own identification so yes.



mstrjx -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 10:16:49 AM)

I know this is straying slightly from the nature of the original question, but I had another thought.

A 'method' of objectification, something to make you 'not you' would be a hood.  Of course there have been threads on that before.  A garment to make you anonymous.

Jeff



SusanofO -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 10:32:08 AM)

mstrjx: Yes, I think hoods would qualify.

popeye: I haven't read anything that goes to that extreme as far as wanting (or requesting another person have) plastic surgery for Objectification purposes. However, I seem to occasionally read in profiles that Dominants are wanting to have plastic breast augmentation surgery done on their submissives and slaves to make them D's or DD's (cup size) if they are not that size already.

- Susan



popeye1250 -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 10:53:27 AM)

Susan, why does that not surprise me? lol
I'm not interested in that, I'm a "natural" kind of person.
If I liked someone I wouldn't want them to change anything about themselves.
JX, yes, Hoods could also be used somewhat to objectify someone. I guess it's kind of like when you put on a mask at Halloween, you're "becomming" someone or something else.



justheather -> RE: What is included in the definition of Objectification? (7/29/2006 10:54:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

i know the being just a hole objectification is somthing that make me feel wery submissive, when noting aboute you matters, you are just a hole to be hused for his plessure. Yes to me that to is objectification.


In my mind, this sort of thing has always fallen under the heading of humiliation...the idea that you have no intrinsic value to the use-er except as something that facilitates his or her gratification. I'm useful only in that way (ie "three holes and a punching bag") but Im still not an inanimate object.

I always think of objectification as being used as a literal thing as opposed to a living being. The "things" are usually non-sexual. For example, people use others as hatracks, footstools, tables, ashtrays, urinals (to name a few).

Please forgive if this repeats what others have said. I did not read every reply in its entirety.



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