WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)?

WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (Full Version)

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vincentML -> WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 2:20:17 PM)
when they accuse entertainers of sexual misconduct (Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, Louis C.K.) BUT we strain and rail against the VICTIMS when politicians are accused (Roy Moore, Donald Trump)? She's a lyin' bitch. Why'd she wait so long? etc. Why do we so knowingly accept accusations against entertainers (uh huh, what I thought) but we flat out don’t believe the accusations against our politicians? Why do we accept one of the accused groups automatically as scum but the other as innocent victims of lying, weaseling women? Is there a moral difference between political paedophilia and show biz paedophilia? What do you think?

DaddySatyr -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 2:25:07 PM)
I think it goes back to the Commander-In-Heat's "Bimbo eruptions".

vincentML -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 2:59:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I think it goes back to the Commander-In-Heat's "Bimbo eruptions". Very good point but . . . . Fatty Arbuckle and Roman Polanski predated Bill.

bounty44 -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 3:07:44 PM)
its a fair question but I don't think the distinction between the two groups is really that stark. that is, there are instant believers, skeptics and deniers/apologists on both sides. i hope as a meaningful aside---I have problems with the overly broad use of the word "pedophilia" when its used, wrongly, in reference to relationships with females who are post pubescent or that don't take into account issues of exclusivity. quote: Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.[1][2]... In popular usage, the word pedophilia is often applied to any sexual interest in children or the act of child sexual abuse.[5][6] This use conflates the sexual attraction to prepubescent children with the act of child sexual abuse, and fails to distinguish between attraction to prepubescent and pubescent or post-pubescent minors.[7][8] Researchers recommend that these imprecise uses be avoided because although people who commit child sexual abuse are sometimes pedophiles,[6][9] child sexual abuse offenders are not pedophiles unless they have a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children,[7][10][11] and some pedophiles do not molest children.[12]... Hebephilia is defined as individuals with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in 11- to 14-year-old pubescents.[23] The DSM-5 does not list hebephilia among the diagnoses; while evidence suggests that hebephilia is separate from pedophilia, the ICD-10 includes early pubertal age (an aspect of hebephilia) in its pedophilia definition, covering the physical development overlap between the two philias.[24] In addition to hebephilia, some clinicians have proposed other categories that are somewhat or completely distinguished from pedophilia; these include pedohebephilia (a combination of pedophilia and hebephilia) and ephebophilia (though ephebophilia is not considered pathological).[25][26] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

MrRodgers -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 3:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML when they accuse entertainers of sexual misconduct (Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, Louis C.K.) BUT we strain and rail against the VICTIMS when politicians are accused (Roy Moore, Donald Trump)? She's a lyin' bitch. Why'd she wait so long? etc. Why do we so knowingly accept accusations against entertainers (uh huh, what I thought) but we flat out don’t believe the accusations against our politicians? Why do we accept one of the accused groups automatically as scum but the other as innocent victims of lying, weaseling women? Is there a moral difference between political paedophilia and show biz paedophilia? What do you think? Well not to belittle the question which is valid but many people go after politicians who are accused, for their own partisan purposes. I mean democrats/liberals and Hollywood moguls are always the scum of the earth because yes...it's politically correct. Repub/right politicians become the victims themselves, of hate and fake news. When everybody should know that the most successful sexual predators are found in the Catholic church. Few if any were ever jailed, the church not the perps. paid fines and most all but the few who didn't retire/resign...were just transfered. That way [he] could victimize another set of the ridiculously young and credulous. Just most people and especially Americans are the most credulous when it comes to govt. telling them and the media...what just happened.

kdsub -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 4:59:56 PM)
Vince...why then did these women go to the press and not the police? Butch

Lucylastic -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 5:32:42 PM)
Butch....Because of fear, of not being believed years ago and going thru what they are going thru now. This thread and the other would make them realise they were right to shut up? child molestation victims are often the last to come out. ANd the least believed. Funny how pizzagate and hillary is a pedophile caught on as being true. And "but Bill" comes out as a yard stick. Also liberals are all like harvey weinstein, but a child molestation accusation against R men will be disbelieved, because its not from last week and theres no hard evidence. Trumps accusers were "whores and money grabbers", and now these women are merely "shrugged off" as being political destruction units. Yeah that has to be it...[8\|]

kdsub -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 5:36:12 PM)
I do understand that but were not two of these girls in their late teens or early twenties? But anyway...did they go to the police?... I mean now... have they been to the police to press charges? It would give credence to their stories. Butch

LadyPact -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 7:04:13 PM)
Who is this WE? quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince...why then did these women go to the press and not the police? Butch Because we know that we won't be believed. We don't have enough physical (DNA) evidence to appease the masses.

JVoV -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 7:26:31 PM)
I think with any allegation, you have to trust but verify. So far, the girl's story adds up. As in it has been verified that they were both at the courthouse on the day she says they met. Other people have spoken about her having told them over the years.

kdsub -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 7:28:35 PM)
That would be up to the police to decide if there was evidence enough for charges... When others came forward there may very well be enough to take these accusations seriously. I'm sorry I just do not think it justice when the accused is tried in the media. If someone is going to make serious accusations then make a complaint. Butch

JVoV -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 7:41:26 PM)
[image]https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Out_Of_1000_Rapes%20122016.png[/image]

kdsub -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 7:46:56 PM)
one better than none... but by making a complaint it lends credence to their story. Butch

JVoV -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 8:00:12 PM)
But even if the girl was a willing participant at the age of 14, even if she was begging for it, it would have been illegal, by state law. If she wasn't old enough to consent, she certainly wasn't old enough to be expected to know the law, or that one day she would need to have her story documented.

LadyPact -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 8:08:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub That would be up to the police to decide if there was evidence enough for charges... When others came forward there may very well be enough to take these accusations seriously. I'm sorry I just do not think it justice when the accused is tried in the media. If someone is going to make serious accusations then make a complaint. Butch Let's play a game.. Where is your wallet right now? how hard do you think it would be for me to take it from you? However i manage to do it... Maybe you were asleep. Whatever. I don't care. If I managed to take your wallet, would it only be REAL to you IF you reported it. Only if you went to the cops was it really gone. Whether you go to the cops or not, your wallet is still gone. That police report doesn't change anything. Reporting it or not reporting it doesn't change the fact that your wallet is GONE. Ten years from now, you'll still talk about it. How to replace your driver's license or your Social Security card. ATM, credit cards, etc. Did I only steal your wallet IF you went to the cops? The wallet is still gone, whether you walk into the police station or not.

Edwird -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 8:09:10 PM)
monumental quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML when they accuse entertainers of sexual misconduct (Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, Louis C.K.) BUT we strain and rail against the VICTIMS when politicians are accused (Roy Moore, Donald Trump)? She's a lyin' bitch. Why'd she wait so long? etc. Why do we so knowingly accept accusations against entertainers (uh huh, what I thought) but we flat out don’t believe the accusations against our politicians? Why do we accept one of the accused groups automatically as scum but the other as innocent victims of lying, weaseling women? Is there a moral difference between political paedophilia and show biz paedophilia? What do you think? Dear Vincent; If your intent was to question the veracity of some of these accusations by alleged victims, then why did your thread title make it about women? Or if the point was about entertainers vs. politicians; again, why the title? In any case, both sectors (politicians and entertainers) rely on popularity to make a living, and as far as I've seen through the years I haven't seen one favored to the other by the media, except that both sides of politicians are more hypocritical in every regard. But even that pandering (by hypocritical politicians) is on warped sense of societal mores, which the media exploit and pervert to own purpose, in either realm. In my estimation, the media are even more responsible than politicians for the downturn experienced today. The media patronize and pander at least as much as any politician. Today's sitcoms, today's "news," today's presentation of the latest bizarre event, hour after hour, week after week, splashing it up for all it's worth in every case . . . but then all the 'thoughtful' or not so thoughtful "concern" about the nation and the world, etc. on the 'political' shows (oh, barf ...). BTW, one out of 50 million of the politico reporters gets a Pulitzer for making us feel bad that we actually took the rest of the media at their word for ten years, but TMZ pops up yesterday and makes tons more money than the Washington Post last year, so that's where that is. So, yeah, that's how to keep people level-headed and even-keeled before they make world-changing decisions as voters, right?

Edwird -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/10/2017 9:24:03 PM)
I think that watching the second presidential debate I witnessed (I don't even remember who v. whom) made me think that the world was completely wacko, because after the great and relentless efforts to dumb us down for the advertisers (just the TV networks doing their job), we were now expected to take them seriously. You know, just this once.

DaddySatyr -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/11/2017 1:55:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I think it goes back to the Commander-In-Heat's "Bimbo eruptions". Very good point but . . . . Fatty Arbuckle and Roman Polanski predated Bill. To the best of my knowledge, neither of them was a politician? I thought I made my point, but I'll try again: Many, many years ago, I learned that "celebrities" (be they Hollyweird or Washington) enjoyed an "emotional pass" on a lot of things, as long as their "hearts were in the right place", as far as their political stance. Obviously, politicians, being more closely associated with politics, enjoyed this "pass" more than others. Slick Willy was a womanizing, harassing - possibly, rapist - scumbag, but he was "good for the country" so leave him alone. I'm sure it goes back, before that, but there was a time that the press was loathe to throw around allegations without sufficient corroboration (Three sources and all of that "olde fashion" stuff). Those days no longer exist.

bounty44 -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/11/2017 4:14:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub That would be up to the police to decide if there was evidence enough for charges... When others came forward there may very well be enough to take these accusations seriously. I'm sorry I just do not think it justice when the accused is tried in the media. If someone is going to make serious accusations then make a complaint. Butch Let's play a game.. Where is your wallet right now? how hard do you think it would be for me to take it from you? However i manage to do it... Maybe you were asleep. Whatever. I don't care. If I managed to take your wallet, would it only be REAL to you IF you reported it. Only if you went to the cops was it really gone. Whether you go to the cops or not, your wallet is still gone. That police report doesn't change anything. Reporting it or not reporting it doesn't change the fact that your wallet is GONE. Ten years from now, you'll still talk about it. How to replace your driver's license or your Social Security card. ATM, credit cards, etc. Did I only steal your wallet IF you went to the cops? The wallet is still gone, whether you walk into the police station or not. while what you said is true, it doesn't really address butch's point, which im taking to mean what I bolded above. its not a matter of whether or not the wallet was stolen in some metaphysical sense, its a matter of how justice is obtained after it has been.

Lucylastic -> RE: WHY DO WE READILY BELIEVE THE WOMEN (VICTIMS)? (11/11/2017 4:58:32 AM)
He wont be tried in a court of law. Politics is all about public opinion. Public Opinion has tried weinstein, spacey etc etc et al, there are no charges yet, or court cases yet, but when its Moore, its political and not to be believed because the accusers are liars. One of the accusations against spacey, is by a 14 yr old boy, the outrage was understandable. Moore is accused of molesting a 14 yr old girl but she is not to be believed. [:@]

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