RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (Full Version)

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Awareness -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/16/2017 5:32:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
Discord wasn't released until after Gamergate moved to history despite NBC inferring they were related.

But, Gamergate keeps getting resurrected as a zombie boogum when someone tries to use it as an example of sexism based on people that wrote ABOUT it instead of fact checking.


Oh.

Okay, got it.

We don't give a shit ABOUT 100,000 dead Iranians based on false accusation, but when it comes to gamers . . .

Yeah, got it.

False equivalence as a distraction? Christ, you're fucking pathetic.




Awareness -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/16/2017 5:34:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


There is very little "fake news" because journalist don't intentionally make up stories (b/c they'd be fired for doing so.)
That's incorrect. Anyone who's actually dealt with the media will tell you how they distort facts and present a story for entertainment value rather than newsworthiness. And the hyper-partisan shilling of NBC/CNN/Washington Post is now fully equivalent to Fox News. In every conceivable way.




vincentML -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/16/2017 7:02:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


There is very little "fake news" because journalist don't intentionally make up stories (b/c they'd be fired for doing so.)
That's incorrect. Anyone who's actually dealt with the media will tell you how they distort facts and present a story for entertainment value rather than newsworthiness. And the hyper-partisan shilling of NBC/CNN/Washington Post is now fully equivalent to Fox News. In every conceivable way.


I am surprised that you remain quizzical over the history of partisan broadsheets in our Republic. They have always been an important part of the intellectual landscape. Only a fool would be unaware of the role they played in our history.

The revelation that the Department of Justice acquired and read the phone records of Associated Press editors and reporters does not change the obvious fact that the mainstream media have been reliable supporters of the Democratic Party, even if they are unappreciated by the administration.

For many conservatives, the mainstream media’s reluctant coverage of the death of four Americans, including an ambassador, in Benghazi, Libya last September 11 is merely the latest expression of the media’s political bias. The testimony in the House Oversight Committee’s May 8 hearings on the attack has made it obvious that both before and after the presidential election, the media showed no interest in challenging the administration’s swiftly exploded claim that an obscure internet video caused the attack rather than a terrorist affiliate of the same al Qaeda the president on the campaign trail was bragging had been “decimated” and “rocked back on its heels.”

This unsavory relationship between the media and the Democrats has long existed, but the political career of Barack Obama marks a quantum leap beyond the media’s traditional liberal preferences and biases––which in the past had at least a patina of objectivity and neutrality––to blatant advocacy, double standards, and explicit partisan hatred.

The roots of media bias go back to the nineteenth century, and complaints about bias in part reflect a questionable idea about the media’s role and purpose: that newspapers and other dispensers of public information exist to transmit objective, factual information gleaned and communicated by credentialed professionals.

In fact, the notion that reporters should possess Olympian objectivity is relatively recent. In the nineteenth century, most newspapers were explicitly linked to a particular political party and the economic interests of the publisher. In California during the Gold Rush, for example, the San Francisco Alta California was the enemy of Democratic governor John Bigler, whose press champion was the Stockton Republican. Most of the coverage of crime during this period––particularly the spree of the Mexican bandit Joaquín Murieta and the state-funded posse that tracked him down and killed him––reflected those political interests and loyalties rather than mere facts. Moreover, the stories were written in a florid, dramatic style more suitable for a dime novel than a presumably more sober newspaper. Of course protestations of objectivity and accuracy were made, but these were understood to be mere rhetorical camouflage for the editorial opinions sown throughout most news stories.

The tradition of lurid sensationalism, scandal-mongering, and exaggeration put in service to profits and a political agenda continued in the “yellow journalism” famously on display in the circulation war between the Hearst and Pulitzer newspapers in the late nineteenth century. More significantly, that was also when the progressive movement promoted the notion that the proper function of the media was to instruct and shape the opinions of voters too uninformed and irrational to be trusted with making the right choice based on facts alone.

As historian Chilton Williamson writes of this period, “The presentation of facts simply as facts, editors and writers reasoned, cannot accomplish the exalted goal of saving civilization. To do that, facts needed to be presented according to those rhetorical patterns of thought we call opinions, patterns pointed in some particular direction of convincing an imagined jury.” This “jury” included the opinion-makers, politicians, and citizens who needed guiding by their betters in order to understand and choose the policies necessary for improving society. First, journalism became a “profession” certified by a university degree. Before then, as films like The Front Page and It Happened One Night show, journalism was a working-class trade. As late as the 1970s, when my wife began her career as a reporter, most of the veterans in the newsroom lacked college degrees. They had worked their way up from being a copy-kid or a writer of obituaries, earning by experience the job of reporter. Any biases tended to reflect those of class as much as of political ideology.

Once reporters started coming out of colleges and universities, however, they were shaped by the leftist perspective of those institutions. These perspectives, once marginal in American public discourse, became increasingly prominent in the press and television news shows. Now the old progressive view that the press should not just report facts, but mold public opinion to achieve certain political ends, served an ideology fundamentally adverse to the free-market, liberal-democratic foundations of the American Republic.

As Orville Schell, one-time Dean of the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, has put it, “In a democracy, indeed in any intelligent society, the media and politicians have to lead. The media should be introducing us to new things, interesting things, things we don’t already know about; helping us change our minds or make up our minds, not just pandering to lowest-denominator wisdom.” Of course, these goals ignore the fact that politicians are accountable to voters, whereas unelected journalists are accountable to no one other than their bosses and the bottom line. And who decides what the minds of voters should be changed to? Isn’t that the function of the editorial pages?

The catalyst for this process of the media’s mainstreaming of leftist ideology was the war in Vietnam. The left viewed this conflict not as a Cold War duel necessary for containing communist aggression, as many Americans believed, but as a neo-imperialist attempt to prop up an oppressive regime of capitalist lackeys trying to crush a nationalist liberation movement. As such, it was the duty of the media to instruct their fellow citizens on their errors of thinking and liberate them from their delusions.

The distorted reporting on the 1968 Tet offensive––an utter failure for the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese, who lost 40,000 men in their doomed attempt to bring down the government in the South––was depicted in the American media as a successful exposure of the corrupt South’s weakness and the futility of American intervention. Even the Wall Street Journal editorialized that “the whole Vietnam effort may be doomed.”

Similarly, the media attention given to the New York Times’ publication of the Pentagon Papers in 1971 reinforced the narrative of American crimes and bungling in Vietnam, even though the Department of Defense study ended in 1967, and so had nothing to say about the success of General Creighton Abrams in turning the war around after Tet and compelling the North to negotiate for peace in 1973. More recently, we have seen these same accusations of duplicity and incompetence in much of the coverage of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq during the Bush presidency. Failures, mistakes, collateral damage, and casualties were highlighted, successes and heroism downplayed or ignored. Underlying the coverage, especially of the war in Iraq, was the narrative of a Vietnam-like “unjust” war sold to Congress and the American people with manufactured intelligence, and pursued to enrich corporate cronies of the administration.

Yet despite the political bias of much of its reporting of the Vietnam conflict, the media congratulated themselves for ending the war, and confirmed their status as the righteous “watchdogs” monitoring the government, “speaking truth to power,” and protecting our liberties. The Watergate affair, a political scandal of the sort that can be found throughout American history, not only confirmed the media’s self-congratulatory pose as the only thing standing between the American people and fascism, but bestowed as well the rewards of celebrity status and lucre on the reporters who in effect had simply channeled information given to them by a disgruntled FBI employee. The end result is the mainstream media today: for-profit businesses that think of themselves as morally and intellectually superior not just to other businesses, but to the organs of government and the mass of gullible voters who put politicians in office.

It is a rich history which should attract immigrants with an intellectual pretense.





Marini -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/16/2017 7:18:47 PM)

I would love for someone to name a couple of news sources, that are not biased, in one way or another.
[;)]

Name some totally NEUTRAL sources of news.




ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/17/2017 1:14:08 AM)

Jesus wept.


smh




Awareness -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/20/2017 8:30:31 PM)

Vinnie quoting a complete article without attribution is a desperate move. Why on earth are you trying to pass off Bruce Thornton's work as your own?

Pathetic.




Edwird -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/21/2017 6:10:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
Discord wasn't released until after Gamergate moved to history despite NBC inferring they were related.

But, Gamergate keeps getting resurrected as a zombie boogum when someone tries to use it as an example of sexism based on people that wrote ABOUT it instead of fact checking.


Oh.

Okay, got it.

We don't give a shit ABOUT 100,000 dead Iranians based on false accusation, but when it comes to gamers . . .

Yeah, got it.
False equivalence as a distraction? Christ, you're fucking pathetic.


It wasn't 'equivalence' at all, fuckhead, it was a comparison of fabricated societal priorities and parameters.

You are dense.







Edwird -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/21/2017 6:31:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


So, yeah, somebody whining about a video game gone wrong, meanwhile with families decimated in the thousands by drones, while trying to change the kid's diaper . . .

Just. Shut. Up.




Edwird -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/21/2017 6:39:33 AM)

Yeah, I know the standard argument, 'But those kids didn't choose the right parents!, so fuck'em!," etc.






bounty44 -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/21/2017 6:50:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I would love for someone to name a couple of news sources, that are not biased, in one way or another.
[;)]

Name some totally NEUTRAL sources of news.



marini, in relation to your question, in research methodology there are two distinct schools of thought. one is that research can indeed be "unbiased" or free of the researcher's presence. typically speaking that school finds its home with the folks who do quantitative, experimental design type research.

the other school of thought is that researchers are inextricably caught up in the research in one way or another, and as they cannot extricate themselves from it, they should declare themselves in some capacity so as to make the readers aware. the latter school finds its home more outside the harder sciences and in qualitative methodology.

I strongly believe that same question (the schools of thought) can be posed as concerns journalism.

whats more important to me is not seeking "neutral" news sources, as I believe there is no such thing (so im mostly in the latter school of thought above) but rather learning to recognize the positions/perspectives held by whoever you are listening to, or reading, and then filter or critique them accordingly.

additionally---presuming your desire for "neutral" is meant to be a "seeking of the truth" sentiment---one can read/listen to people coming from multiple perspectives.

but I wholeheartedly believe we'll invariably find that one "side" resonates more with us than the other. its the way we're built.

one thing I constantly struggle with on here, and on more than one occasion have wanted to address, is the notion of that "bias" necessarily means a bad thing---as if all of intellectual thought should strive for "balance" as opposed to starting from one particular perspective, arguing for its worth while negatively criticizing the other.

calling something/someone "biased" can indeed be a criticism, but only when the information being presented manifests itself in a negative way. otherwise, I think we are not using the term in the best way possible.





Edwird -> RE: Why Mainstream News is Considered Fake News (11/21/2017 9:14:28 AM)

Much truth in what you say, there.

Even still, some love listening to the beauty of a Martin D-28 (when well played) with its phenomenal balance and tone, while others seek every opportunity to say "Oh no! comrades."

Guess what people actually pay attention to? There's a clue.






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