The right are all about protecting free speech...

The right are all about protecting free speech... (Full Version)

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WhoreMods -> The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 6:17:43 AM)
...so long as they don't disagree with what's being said. quote: “A Texas sheriff says he could throw the book at a driver over his limited vocabulary and dislike for President Trump. “F--- Trump and f--- you for voting for him,” reads the sticker on the back of a GMC Sierra broadcast via Facebook by Fort Bend County Sheriff Troy Nehls. What the message lacks in wit it apparently made up for in offense, with Nehls saying he had received “numerous calls regarding the offensive display” from citizens hoping that the driver’s foul mouth and truck can be washed clean by the law. The sheriff southwest of Houston put out a call for information, saying that a prosecutor had already told him that she could bring disorderly conduct charges.”

DaddySatyr -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 6:21:05 AM)
Free speech/expression has had certain restrictions for some time. Obscenity has long been one of those restrictions. Unfortunately, it's never been very well defined, relying upon "community standards". In effect, this puts the definition of obscenity where (I believe) it belongs; in the hands of the public to decide. Quite frankly, I find people putting bumper stickers like this on their vehicles to be presumptuous as well as vulgar since they have NO "RIGHT" to decide to what my children and grandchildren will be exposed.

WhoreMods -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 6:37:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Free speech/expression has had certain restrictions for some time. Obscenity has long been one of those restrictions. Unfortunately, it's never been very well defined, relying upon "community standards". In effect, this puts the definition of obscenity where (I believe) it belongs; in the hands of the public to decide. Quite frankly, I find people putting bumper stickers like this on their vehicles to be presumptuous as well as vulgar since they have NO "RIGHT" to decide to what my children and grandchildren will be exposed. Time for the traditional "...but Obama!", "...but Hilary!" riff: If this sheriff has ensured that there are also no bumper stickers with obscenities directed at the former president or the democrat nominee who stood last year to be found anywhere on his patch, then this probably is a genuine concern about obscenities on cars where the thin skinned and oversensitive might see them. If not, then it's selective enforcement for partisan reasons, which is rather less acceptable.

DaddySatyr -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 6:44:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods Time for the traditional "...but Obama!", "...but Hilary!" riff: If this sheriff has ensured that there are also no bumper stickers with obscenities directed at the former president or the democrat nominee who stood last year to be found anywhere on his patch, then this probably is a genuine concern about obscenities on cars where the thin skinned and oversensitive might see them. If not, then it's selective enforcement for partisan reasons, which is rather less acceptable. I would call out anyone that had "Fuck" and either of the names you mentioned. My issue isn't with a political statement. I would be on board with something like: "Trump is an idiot and so is anyone that voted for him". That's fine. My objection is exposing people (especially young ones) to certain words to which they (or their parents) don't want to be exposed. And the word IS the issue. In some states, if I chop off a finger on the job and yell: "Oh, Fuck!" I am technically guilty of sexual "harassment" in the work place. In the states to which I'm referring, harassment is defined as " ... any word of a sexual nature that makes someone uncomfortable" Also: Objecting to public vulgarity doesn't make anyone "thin-skinned", it makes them unwilling to allow others to impose their moral standards on themselves or their loved ones. Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose.

DesideriScuri -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 6:57:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Free speech/expression has had certain restrictions for some time. Obscenity has long been one of those restrictions. Unfortunately, it's never been very well defined, relying upon "community standards". In effect, this puts the definition of obscenity where (I believe) it belongs; in the hands of the public to decide. Quite frankly, I find people putting bumper stickers like this on their vehicles to be presumptuous as well as vulgar since they have NO "RIGHT" to decide to what my children and grandchildren will be exposed. Time for the traditional "...but Obama!", "...but Hilary!" riff: If this sheriff has ensured that there are also no bumper stickers with obscenities directed at the former president or the democrat nominee who stood last year to be found anywhere on his patch, then this probably is a genuine concern about obscenities on cars where the thin skinned and oversensitive might see them. If not, then it's selective enforcement for partisan reasons, which is rather less acceptable. That's not exactly true, though. If there were complaints about 'Fuck Hillary' or 'Fuck Obama' bumper stickers and the Sheriff knowingly ignored complaints, he would be discriminating if he acted on complaints over a 'Fuck Trump' bumper sticker.

bounty44 -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 7:12:38 AM)
curious too---I didn't see anything in the essence of the issue that said the sheriff, or the people calling to voice complaints were "the right." it simply does not follow that because trump was the target on the bumper sticker, its a matter of partisan enforcing. and hypothetical posturing of requiring the sheriff to say he's an equal opportunity vulgarity monitor when it comes to presidents is absurd. the sample size of "one" is a goodie too!

bounty44 -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 7:34:36 AM)
"Texas Disorderly Conduct Laws" quote: Overview of Texas Disorderly Laws Statutes Texas Penal Code, Title 9, Chapter 42 Various types of unruly or obnoxious conduct may violate Texas state law. Police may use a disorderly conduct charge when a person is disturbing the peace or behaving in a disruptive manner, but is not presenting any serious danger to the public. Disorderly conduct may be viewed as a "catch-all" crime. See FindLaw's Public Safety Violations to learn about related offenses. Examples: Using abusive, profane or vulgar language in a public place Making an offensive gesture in a public place that could incite unruly conduct Chemically creating an unreasonable odor in a public place Abusing or threatening a person in a public place Making unreasonable amounts of noise in a public place or near a private residence that is not your own Fighting in public Displaying or discharging a firearm in public Exposing one's self in public Looking or "peeping" into a private area that is not your own such as hotel rooms, homes, restrooms, or shower stalls... http://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-disorderly-conduct-laws.html

WhoreMods -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 9:17:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods Time for the traditional "...but Obama!", "...but Hilary!" riff: If this sheriff has ensured that there are also no bumper stickers with obscenities directed at the former president or the democrat nominee who stood last year to be found anywhere on his patch, then this probably is a genuine concern about obscenities on cars where the thin skinned and oversensitive might see them. If not, then it's selective enforcement for partisan reasons, which is rather less acceptable. I would call out anyone that had "Fuck" and either of the names you mentioned. My issue isn't with a political statement. I would be on board with something like: "Trump is an idiot and so is anyone that voted for him". That's fine. My objection is exposing people (especially young ones) to certain words to which they (or their parents) don't want to be exposed. And the word IS the issue. In some states, if I chop off a finger on the job and yell: "Oh, Fuck!" I am technically guilty of sexual "harassment" in the work place. In the states to which I'm referring, harassment is defined as " ... any word of a sexual nature that makes someone uncomfortable" Also: Objecting to public vulgarity doesn't make anyone "thin-skinned", it makes them unwilling to allow others to impose their moral standards on themselves or their loved ones. Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose. Fair enough. You'r trying to be consistent, which should always be encouraged.

DaddySatyr -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 9:21:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods Fair enough. You'r trying to be consistent, which should always be encouraged. Thank you for your approval. I was sweating this one. [:D]

WhoreMods -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 9:29:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods Fair enough. You'r trying to be consistent, which should always be encouraged. Thank you for your approval. I was sweating this one. [:D] You're so rarely consistent about anything that you should be congratulated when you manage it.

DaddySatyr -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 9:34:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods You're so rarely consistent about anything that you should be congratulated when you manage it. Yes. I tend to see shades of grey instead of black and white. I recognize that ALL accused "crimes" have particulars to which I wasn't a witness. I also recognize that people, closer to the incidents know more than I and I am not willing to assume that the sheriff in this case is in any way inconsistent, merely because I disagreed with this small snippet into his career. I know that's a radical bent, but I tend to be out on the fringes, frequently. But now, you have me curious: Would you display the bumper sticker described?

WhoreMods -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 9:56:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods You're so rarely consistent about anything that you should be congratulated when you manage it. Yes. I tend to see shades of grey instead of black and white. I recognize that ALL accused "crimes" have particulars to which I wasn't a witness. I also recognize that people, closer to the incidents know more than I and I am not willing to assume that the sheriff in this case is in any way inconsistent, merely because I disagreed with this small snippet into his career. I know that's a radical bent, but I tend to be out on the fringes, frequently. But now, you have me curious: Would you display the bumper sticker described? Of course not: I live in Scotland so I have a bumper sticker showing Nicola Sturgeon going down on Theresa May. (Good play on insisting that that changing your story for partisan reasons reflects an acceptance of ambiguities in morality, though.)

DaddySatyr -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 10:44:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Yes. I tend to see shades of grey instead of black and white. I recognize that ALL accused "crimes" have particulars to which I wasn't a witness. I also recognize that people, closer to the incidents know more than I and I am not willing to assume that the sheriff in this case is in any way inconsistent, merely because I disagreed with this small snippet into his career. I know that's a radical bent, but I tend to be out on the fringes, frequently. But now, you have me curious: Would you display the bumper sticker described? Of course not: I live in Scotland so I have a bumper sticker showing Nicola Sturgeon going down on Theresa May. I know who May is, but the only Nicola I'm aware of was a proponent of DC electricity. That said, based upon how you're describing your bumper sticker, depending upon the detail, I might object to it, also. quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods (Good play on insisting that that changing your story for partisan reasons reflects an acceptance of ambiguities in morality, though.) Actually, no. That's not what I was saying, but you keep erecting those straw men. I hear straw is down to £2.00 per pound, these days. Where did I mention moral ambiguities or partisan affiliations? Just in your mind. I *was* saying that there are people on both sides of the Left/Right divide who will staunchly defend obvious wrongs (Bill Clinton, Weinstain, etc.) just because the accused has the correct political stance to the defenders taste, but that you were wrong for trying to paint me in that light. Nice try, though.

MrRodgers -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 11:07:00 AM)
Well in the actual code, obvious by its omission, is the printed word. I think for some people, all of that is protected and rightly so because it is after all, are just words printed on a paper or whatever.

DaddySatyr -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 11:32:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Well in the actual code, obvious by its omission, is the printed word. I think for some people, all of that is protected and rightly so because it is after all, are just words printed on a paper or whatever. You're right, of course. Much like the little card that the (Texas?) law tried to insist be handed out at abortion clinics, telling women about adoption and other pro-life alternatives? Just words on a paper (well, large index card but ...), not harming anyone, but the pro-infanticidists jumped all over it. I'm not breaking new ground, here. Printed words are just another form of speech/expression and should adhere to the same strictures as oral forms. I already made the case about words, especially those with sexual connotations, falling under certain "community standards" decency laws, but put that to the side and my main issue is/was/will always be: It is NOT your "right" to expose my children/grandchildren to words I would rather they weren't exposed to. Unless you want me to come preach the gospel to your little ones? And here, we have the rest of the story. This wasn't some little bumper sticker Photo of Truck

jlf1961 -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 11:59:35 AM)
Well, the sheriff in question backed off the threat of charges against the owner of the truck. And technically, reading some of the local reports on the story is not so much a matter of what the sticker says, but the fact that idiot drivers who read the sticker get distracted and could possibly cause an accident. And we are not talking about a bumper sticker, we are talking about a sticker that basically covers the entire back window of the pickup in question, thus obscuring the use of the windshield mounted rear view mirror. And considering what some liberal comedians have said concerning the president, his family, policies etc, this is actually quite tasteful in my opinion. I mean its not like some bumper stickers of former presidents that appeared that had bullseyes over their faces.

DaddySatyr -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 12:11:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 And technically, reading some of the local reports on the story is not so much a matter of what the sticker says, but the fact that idiot drivers who read the sticker get distracted and could possibly cause an accident. And we are not talking about a bumper sticker, we are talking about a sticker that basically covers the entire back window of the pickup in question, thus obscuring the use of the windshield mounted rear view mirror. And considering what some liberal comedians have said concerning the president, his family, policies etc, this is actually quite tasteful in my opinion. My objection had nothing to do with possible traffic safety laws (and I posted a photo of the offensive message above). Once again, it has to do with where your "right" to expression butts up against my right to raise my children in the way I feel appropriate. We "hide" pornography on the magazine stands. late night comedians are LATE NIGHT comedians for a reason. Going to their shows? I don't think children under 13/14 belong at most of those shows and I certainly wouldn't allow mine to go. What it all comes down to is reasonable censorship laws. Can you say "Fuck Trump" on network TV before 22:00? There's a reason for that and you shouldn't be able to "Broadcast it" any hour of the day or night on your vehicle for my little children to see.

MrRodgers -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 3:52:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Well in the actual code, obvious by its omission, is the printed word. I think for some people, all of that is protected and rightly so because it is after all, are just words printed on a paper or whatever. You're right, of course. Much like the little card that the (Texas?) law tried to insist be handed out at abortion clinics, telling women about adoption and other pro-life alternatives? Just words on a paper (well, large index card but ...), not harming anyone, but the pro-infanticidists jumped all over it. I'm not breaking new ground, here. Printed words are just another form of speech/expression and should adhere to the same strictures as oral forms. I already made the case about words, especially those with sexual connotations, falling under certain "community standards" decency laws, but put that to the side and my main issue is/was/will always be: It is NOT your "right" to expose my children/grandchildren to words I would rather they weren't exposed to. Unless you want me to come preach the gospel to your little ones? And here, we have the rest of the story. This wasn't some little bumper sticker Photo of Truck Yes, there are some very fine lines to be drawn here and that truck crosses one. I would think there are local ordinances against that ? Also ones that have been and...can be enforced. In both political party's very successful endeavor to become even less and less like you and me, the left as well, can be a little thin-skinned over this. Reasonable people know where to draw the line and expect just as in 1000's of past truck (vehicle) stickers, some will likely continue to cross them.

MercTech -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/16/2017 6:35:28 PM)
Bumper stickers such as the one cited shove the owner's vulgarity into the face of every driver following. Not suitable. Saying "f*ck Trump" in private or at a political rally is protected free speech. i.e. "Cunt Clinton Sucks" would be unsuitable for a bumper sticker. "Horrid Hillary for Dog Catcher" might just fly.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: The right are all about protecting free speech... (11/17/2017 1:16:01 AM)
America....Land of the sheep; home of the slaves.

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