RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence

RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 7:41:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka That's why Constantine established Christianity as the legal religion. It provided an authoritarian hierarchial structure of behavior and obedience at both the micro and macro levels of society. Easier to rule. Try again. Emperor Constantine decriminalized Christianity, but did not make it the dominant religion of the Roman empire. As far as the United States education system, there is not one, but fifty. Each states make their own rules and set standards per guidelines from the national level. When I went to school, a paddle was normal for really bad offenses, today, the worst one can do is suspension or expelling the student, which is what they probably want in the first place. In Texas, where high school football is almost a religion, first there was the no pass no play law, which set the minimum gpa for players, then a few years later the state passed a nice little law that dealt with discipline problems, too many detentions, benched or off the team. In many rural districts, football is just about the only chance many of these kids have to make it to college. Of course, there was a time, when a court could order a unruly student to a military school, at parent's expense. If they were old enough, a judge could give them the choice of juvenile detention or the military. But hey, in a country where spankings are illegal, and 'time outs' are just about the only accepted punishment, what the hell do you expect? You are correct however, the emperor became a great patron of the Church and set a precedent for the position of the Christian emperor within the Church and the notion of orthodoxy, Christendom, ecumenical councils, and...the state church of the Roman Empire declared by edict in 380. So you know, a little like Papa John's pizza being the official pizza of the NFL, Christianity as of 380, became the 'official' religion of the Roman empire. When one creates a brand new tribe or cult, one must go all of the way.

MrRodgers -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 8:02:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit Aside from a few rare circumstances, such as this one, violence in schools has DROPPED, along with all other forms of violence over the past 40 years. (Some partial charts for past 20 years: https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=49) Basically, we do a better job today in 2017 than we did when I was growing up. The main difference is you didn't use to hear about the violence, now you do. Yes there are exceptions. The thing is you didn't grow up in the bad schools (or you most likely would not be online). But I do agree we can do better. One of the main things I think we need to do is to offer optional Public Boarding Schools for children in cases where the problem is clearly the parents. When one or more parent is a convicted felon, drug user, or homeless, we should offer the children housing along with schooling, away from their parents 9 months a year. Let the parents maintain custody, and even visit the children on the weekend and live with them during the summer. But during the school week those kids need to be educated without the risks of gangs, drugs, etc. I went to one of the "worst" schools in the NYC school system. We were the first in our borough to have metal detectors (There was an issue with .22 "Saturday Night Specials" that sold for $5, when I was 12 years old in 1976). I find your suggestion to be just another step on the road to the government, raising our children. Michael Well an ever increasing number of children are becoming homeless. What's the difference in being wards of the court and 'wards' of the school ? Is there a difference ?

DaddySatyr -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 8:15:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Well an ever increasing number of children are becoming homeless. What's the difference in being wards of the court and 'wards' of the school ? Is there a difference ? Well, "wards of the court" are, generally put into the Foster Care/Adoption system where there's a chance (albeit slim) of them "winding up with" a family (be it a foster or adoptive one). Any hint of children being RAISED by the state is a matter of great concern for me. If you don't like my opinion, I point you to Sparta, Greece, Rome ...

heavyblinker -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 8:25:58 AM)
Too bad Christianity has become a shitty political cult, otherwise maybe some indoctrination could solve a lot of problems. But it's totally unethical to teach kids that the Earth was formed in 6 days, evolution is a lie and God will save us from global warming. The issue isn't always neglectful parents... at least those kids have an excuse and deserve sympathy. The worst is the parents who think their kid is an angel and blame the teacher for any and all problems, thereby enabling their bad behavior.

WhoreMods -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 8:33:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker The worst is the parents who think their kid is an angel and blame the teacher for any and all problems, thereby enabling their bad behavior. They have to do that, because admitting that the problem might be caused by their kid means that they have to accept some responsibility for its behaviour. That isn't going to happen, is it?

LadyPact -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 11:45:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul There is not less violence. Reporting of incidences is different, and schools are discouraged from having too many negative reports, so incidents are downplayed or not reported accurately. I was thinking this EXACT same thing, I seriously doubt most of the situations in this article, involving the 6 year olds, were "counted" as violence. games, semantics, policies, the way incidents are "reported", politics, etc. For what it's worth, I agree with both of you. I've mentioned on other threads that a couple of my co-workers are prior teachers. (I'm saying prior because neither chose to return to the school system this past fall.) This is exactly why they didn't want to return. Some of the stories even about elementary school children sound like situations that I don't blame them for not wanting to put up with. Of course, we never hear this side of it when people start complaining about the lack of teachers, over-crowded classrooms, etc.

DesideriScuri -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 12:11:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker The worst is the parents who think their kid is an angel and blame the teacher for any and all problems, thereby enabling their bad behavior. They have to do that, because admitting that the problem might be caused by their kid means that they have to accept some responsibility for its behaviour. That isn't going to happen, is it? Pretty much sums it up, WM. [image]http://rightcogency.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/unknauthor_problem-cartoon.jpg[/image]

bounty44 -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 12:45:51 PM)
on a whole 'nother level, one wonders to what extent classroom behavior would be changed if elementary/middle school teachers were less populated by women and more populated by men.

MasterDrakk -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 1:58:20 PM)
There are hundreds of male FBI agents that have quit and are looking for jobs, so maybe we have a win-win here.

bounty44 -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 3:38:57 PM)
"Gender Differences in Disciplinary Approaches". quote: This study explored differences in disciplinary approaches of male and female teachers toward male and female children, examining the connection between educator's gender and method of disciplining urban, elementary school aged children...Data analysis indicated that although there were many similarities between male and female teachers' discipline responses, male teachers were more likely to select a more aggressive disciplinary approach toward boys. https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED468259 and that's leaving out the other side of the equation, how boys respond to female teachers compared to how they respond to male teachers. found some thoughts: "Why Do We Need Male Teachers?" quote: ...Some young people do not have any positive male figures in their lives. That is not to suggest that male teachers have to become a “father figure”, but they certainly can show young people what a responsible, caring and fun man looks like... A big issue in education at the moment is male underachievement. It has been recognized that male teachers could have a potential role in helping to change this... A study conducted by the TDA found that 50% of male pupils were more likely to approach a male teacher about bullying or problems with school work. 51% admitted that they behave better with a male teacher... http://malesinteaching.com/Portals/1a9a2a5a-82b3-4f58-8c71-e3d5a1a1cc01/why%20do%20we%20need%20male%20teachers.pdf and theres this: "Pupils make more effort with male teachers as they are seen as 'more fair'" quote: Pupils try harder for male teachers, according to an official study. They make more effort to please them, display greater self-esteem and are more likely to believe they are being treated fairly. The findings are particularly significant as more than a quarter of primary schools do not have a single male teacher... They said the study ‘reveals that pupils taught by male teachers tend to have better perceptions of the importance of hard work, better perceptions of equalities of opportunities and higher self-esteem. ‘This experiment shows that male teachers may be beneficial for both male and female pupils, increasing motivation and effort.’ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1324905/Pupils-make-effort-male-teachers-seen-fair.html

Marini -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 7:00:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: heavyblinker The worst is the parents who think their kid is an angel and blame the teacher for any and all problems, thereby enabling their bad behavior. They have to do that, because admitting that the problem might be caused by their kid means that they have to accept some responsibility for its behaviour. That isn't going to happen, is it? Pretty much sums it up, WM. [image]http://rightcogency.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/unknauthor_problem-cartoon.jpg[/image] [sm=agree.gif] There are so many issues here, its hard to know where to start. Many of the parents today, are just not like many of our parents. I did not say ALL, but some. Many parents come to school and are confrontational with all the staff, often for no reason. When I was in school, I KNEW I did NOT want the teacher to have to call my mother regarding "my behavior". [sm=onphone.gif] Oh no!!! You were not going to call my mother about my behavior! My mother was a beautiful woman, but she was "old school". LOL I was more scared of my mother, than the teachers! I did many things back in the day, but no teacher ever called about my behavior. If they had called {it would have been about me skipping school, every other Friday}. [:D] Back then, they didn't monitor attendance like they do these days.

Marini -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 7:04:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 on a whole 'nother level, one wonders to what extent classroom behavior would be changed if elementary/middle school teachers were less populated by women and more populated by men. They can hire all the men in the world, but I tell you this. At my school, if a fight breaks out, the administrators will often not "physically", get involved. They will call for help and if they intervene they best be real careful. If they are accused of "roughing" up a student, it will be game over for them. Men in public schools, realize they best not even think about touching a student. There was a situation a few years ago, that the a male teacher broke up a fight, and of course the students taped it on their phones. The way it was edited made the teacher look aggressive. I was able to see another version of the video, that showed he was not being aggressive. Kids videotape everything these days, I heard that they video tape teachers when they are angry, or even when they raise their voices. I could go down the list, but in many "urban" schools, men can be bigger targets than women. I do agree, we need more male teachers. Most men in the field of education, are quickly promoted to Principal or Administration. There are not many male teachers in elementary or middle schools, you will find more male teachers in high school.

Greta75 -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 7:14:40 PM)
If they had the headmistress and principal at my all female school, both educators and students. Trust me, all those teenage boys will quake in fear and fall in line. Females can be bad ass too. It doesn't have to be male teachers. And in the context of my country. I always found male teachers to be the more gentle ones and easy to walk over. Maybe because I am female and they are soft to young girls. All we need to do is well up and cry. And they are lost. Whereas when a woman is hardcore, she is no nonsense with both male and female students. Lol, like if I cried at my female principal. She will just tell you that the strokes of the caning does not stop until you stop crying. Infact if you do cry, your punishment is worst. A male issuing the corporal punishment would be like...., "Hang in there..., it's over soon." And then he'd be like, I know you are remorseful and sorry for what you have done, please don't do it again. I remembered an incident where my female school principal destroyed a school bully. This tough kid was going around accusing other male students of staring at his girlfriend and beating them up. And the female school principal publicly humiliate him by having stand beside her on stage, and told the whole school that he cried like a baby and beg her not to cane him public and also beg her not to tell his parents. So because of that, she will not cane him or tell his parents but she wanted the whole school to know why he is not getting the usual public caning. And that he promised he will not do it again. That was so effective. He was so humiliated after being such a tough guy and kept a low profile.

Marini -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 7:19:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Marini At least 45 Teachers have resigned during the last 3 months, between July-October, due to the out of control behavior from the students, and virtually little to NO support from administration. This is happening everywhere in the world. It's not a good world to be a teacher these days. Especially to teach young teenage kids as their most petulant stage. In my country, in the past, teachers are given the right issue corporal punishment. And can be really fierce. Students feared them and just behaved. These days, they gotta be like customer service and try to please the kids and the parents. Any raising of voice is child abuse. Corporal punishment is taken away from the teachers. And they are basically not empowered to issue any punishment. So the kids walk all over them, knowing they have all the power. And don't talk about physical violence. With social media, the real bullying of teachers by students happens in social media when students gang up in social media against them and they could just cut a female teacher head off and paste it on a nude body and let it go viral if they wanted to bully their female teacher. Or draw dick pictures on her face. The bullying in social media is like unlimited possibilities. Also then it's hard to track who was the originator, so the students can pretty much cause alot of damage to teachers by doing that. On top of that, false accusation of molestation or sexual inappropriate behaviour because they are not happy with that teacher and wanna get the teacher in trouble. I know a falsely accused principal in my country, he is male, and a 14 yr old boy accused him of inappropriate behaviour and he had to resign. But in the end, it was found that the 14 yr old made up the whole story. But he never went back as it was so embarrassing for the principal. I know too many teachers who left the teaching career for the same reason, they had no power to control the kid's bullying on them. And I think I totally get it, because I was the kid who pick on teachers. But in my case, they were given the rights to beat me during my time, publicly beat me and cane me for it on stage infront of the whole school. So we were on equal grounds. I brave the beatings to be naughty. And we had no social media. Internet was just only beginning with geocities websites. Basically, I was a naughty kid and I know like if we know we can get away with it, we can become monsters and uncontrollable. I think alot of us had the mentality that, if we wanted to be naughty and do anything inappropriate, now is the time, where we are young and childish and adults will just excuse it as immaturity. Once reach adulthood, gotta start behaving. That's pretty much the logic. We were all since like 10 yrs old very clear about this in our minds. And we discussed it. We even share information what we couldn't be jailed for until what age. So if i was 10 and I took my parents car out for a drive. I know they can't jail me when caught. Or if I shop lift at 10. They can call the police. They will call the parents. Get scolded. Get beaten by parents. That's it. We think about how we won't have a police record so it's okay. Kids are smart. PS: Teachers being jump and beat up by students in the UK lower class schools is like a normal happening since like the 60's. Thank you for this post Greta. This year my school system has rolled out a lot of crap about "customer service". I am blessed to have made it close to 18 years, and it has gotten MUCH more challenging the last 5 years. If I was just starting out, I would probably never stay in this field. IF I were to stay in the field, I would only teach in high school. I came in at a time when they were desperate for special education teachers, and would take almost anyone with a college degree, and they paid for me to get certified, while I was teaching, so I did not pay for my classes. They still have a lot of programs "Teach for America", etc. It was very, very, very, very different when I first started. The amount of work, has increased exponentially, and I sure would be exploring ALL options/including going into another field, if I were a new teacher. It has only been luck, hard work, watching my back, standing my ground, prayer and GOD's blessing, that I have been able to hang in here. Its just criminal, that people spend years of their lives preparing to teach, untold $$$$$, and then are treated like crap, by the students and the administration that is supposed to assist and protect them. I am outraged by the story I posted in my OP. Teacher's need to take it to the streets, but many of them are not fighters. It is unconscionable and it tells me about the society I live in. I have so many jokes and stories, I plan to do some writing down the road. I also look forward to being able to work for "teachers rights".

Marini -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 7:59:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 If they had the headmistress and principal at my all female school, both educators and students. Trust me, all those teenage boys will quake in fear and fall in line. Females can be bad ass too. It doesn't have to be male teachers. And in the context of my country. I always found male teachers to be the more gentle ones and easy to walk over. Maybe because I am female and they are soft to young girls. All we need to do is well up and cry. And they are lost. Whereas when a woman is hardcore, she is no nonsense with both male and female students. Lol, like if I cried at my female principal. She will just tell you that the strokes of the caning does not stop until you stop crying. Infact if you do cry, your punishment is worst. A male issuing the corporal punishment would be like...., "Hang in there..., it's over soon." And then he'd be like, I know you are remorseful and sorry for what you have done, please don't do it again. I remembered an incident where my female school principal destroyed a school bully. This tough kid was going around accusing other male students of staring at his girlfriend and beating them up. And the female school principal publicly humiliate him by having stand beside her on stage, and told the whole school that he cried like a baby and beg her not to cane him public and also beg her not to tell his parents. So because of that, she will not cane him or tell his parents but she wanted the whole school to know why he is not getting the usual public caning. And that he promised he will not do it again. That was so effective. He was so humiliated after being such a tough guy and kept a low profile. Can they still cane in Singapore???? I went to a Catholic school for 3 years, and I still remember the yardstick! Those nuns did not play!

tamaka -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 8:14:27 PM)
FR: Honestly, I think that nowdays, any job involving other people of any age is pretty risky.

Marini -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 8:22:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka FR: Honestly, I think that nowdays, any job involving other people of any age is pretty risky. I agree to a point, BUT, working DIRECTLY with people's children is a tad bit different, then just "working with other people/especially adults". Especially, if you work with children with special needs, its JUST not like, say working in a store. All jobs involving other people of any age, do not have the same levels of risk or fiduciary responsibilities. I have worked in nursing homes, hospitals and schools. We are not even going to START talking about the conditions in hospitals or nursing homes. Many people have not worked in either. Peace

Greta75 -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 8:55:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Can they still cane in Singapore???? I went to a Catholic school for 3 years, and I still remember the yardstick! Those nuns did not play! Caning is legal in schools by specifically headmaster/mistresses/principals. (Nothing to do with religious schools as most government schools are neutral and non-religious) But you know the new wave style is now that, many educators do not choose to implement caning anymore. But in the case of my old female principal. If the parents came in and complain about their child being caned. She was no nonsense. She would just expel the child and tell the parents to find another school to handle her, and she is no nonsense and will not have a student who refuses to obey the school rules and with parents who empower her bad behaviour.

Marini -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 9:00:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Can they still cane in Singapore???? I went to a Catholic school for 3 years, and I still remember the yardstick! Those nuns did not play! Caning is legal in schools by specifically headmaster/mistresses/principals. But you know the new wave style is now that, many educators do not choose to implement caning anymore. But in the case of my old female principal. If the parents came in and complain about their child being caned. She was non nonsense. She would just expell the child and tell the parents to find another school to handle her, and she is no nonsense and will not have a student who refuses to obey the school rules and have the parents empower her to disobey. lol, you could NEVER do that sort of thing in the states. It is fascinating that Asian schools, don't seem to most of the issues, that we have in the states. I have always found their school systems fascinating. With all the problem that most urban/and some suburban school systems are encountering, when is enough going to be enough? Why can't we learn from what the Asian school systems seem to be doing right? CNN- What Asian schools can teach the rest of us. Teach Abroad Network- Differences between Asian schools and American schools

Greta75 -> RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student violence (11/22/2017 9:00:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tamaka FR: Honestly, I think that nowdays, any job involving other people of any age is pretty risky. Not true. In government sector and in hospitals and stuffs. There is signs everywhere, where staff abuse from customers will not be tolerated and they will be escorted out by security if they do not respect and treat the staff with respect and politeness. Only educators can get disrespected by students and not be protected for it. Because they are kids.

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