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RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 9:11:28 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

lol, you could NEVER do that sort of thing in the states.
It is fascinating that Asian schools, don't seem to have almost ANY of the issues, that we have in the states.
I have always found their school systems fascinating.


I think we never have cases of students beating up a teacher. This seem to be more prevalent in western schools especially in the schools in bad neighbourhood with alot of problematic students.

But we have a different system, where government schools, entrance is base on top grades only, so literally government schools get the best students, and all the wayward kids goes into private schools as they would get expelled from government schools anyway for either lousy grades or lousy behaviour.

Only good kids with good grades get to stay in government schools.

And alot of Asian parents, even from poverty backgrounds, expect their kids to do well in school, for grades. And Asian parents themselves generally use corporal punishment on their own kids at home for bad grades.

So in a way financial background are no obstacle to good students and good grades. As if the student is willing to put in effort, the school teachers also willing to help you with extra after school personal one on one extra help to help you keep up.

Usually when it comes to violence in school. It's always against another student. But never towards the educators. One of the big reason is they don't care if you are 14. If you beat up another student or a teacher. You get a criminal record, and they make it very clear to you, that it will be stigma to you for life. They will just bring the police in to handle it. There is also teenage prison which will make your life miserable. You can't live at home on weekdays, and will be confine to a prison-like lifestyle. Only allowed to go home once a week on Sunday.

My female principal also has her own "prison" system for struggling students. The prison is this student has to live with her from monday to saturday and only allowed to go home on sunday. And she runs a military style strict disciplinary lifestyle where all they are allowed to do is study. This is for students with really bad grades, and if the parents don't agree to this, they expel the kid. That's it.

Also correct me if I am wrong, but I have the impression that in the US. Black kids are more well behaved towards their parents than white kids towards their parents.

Somehow, Black moms are stricter and demand alot of respect from their children. And white moms usually let their kids run wild. I watch too much super nanny and white kids. Alot of their behaviour is unimaginable for an Asian kid.

If you see my friend's 3 yr old. She sits quietly and obeys everything. That's it. Doesn't throw a tantrum, kick a fuss.


(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 9:15:05 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

FR:

Honestly, I think that nowdays, any job involving other people of any age is pretty risky.


Not true. In government sector and in hospitals and stuffs. There is signs everywhere, where staff abuse from customers will not be tolerated and they will be escorted out by security if they do not respect and treat the staff with respect and politeness.

Only educators can get disrespected by students and not be protected for it. Because they are kids.




In what other area, could people be ABUSED like these teachers were, and not be sued????
THESE teachers were abused!
Maybe she did not read the article.

These teachers were pushed, hit and kicked! One teacher had her hands held behind her back!!!

IN WHAT OTHER "PROFESSION" are people treated like this, and basically nothing is done!!!

They quit, this shit is beyond OUTRAGEOUS.



_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 9:19:11 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


In what other area, could people be ABUSED like these teachers were, and not be sued????
THESE teachers were abused!
Maybe she did not read the article.

These teachers were pushed, hit and kicked! One teacher had her hands held behind her back!!!

IN WHAT OTHER "PROFESSION" are people treated like this, and basically nothing is done!!!

They quit, this shit is beyond OUTRAGEOUS.



Maybe you should apply for a teaching job in Asia. And feel the difference. You will get alot more respect naturally for being the teacher. It comes with most Asian parents teaching their kids to respect their teachers as a norm.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 9:21:39 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Our public institutions are reflecting the problems of the community. But it is not the responsibility for our educators ... or our police to correct these problems. Our schools are for education and if a child cannot behave then they cannot be allowed to disrupt the education of others. They should not be allowed to attend school until their behavior is acceptable.

The proper behavior has no color...black or white red or yellow all must be held to the same standard. Social mores are not an excuse for misbehavior.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 9:25:42 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

lol, you could NEVER do that sort of thing in the states.
It is fascinating that Asian schools, don't seem to have almost ANY of the issues, that we have in the states.
I have always found their school systems fascinating.


I think we never have cases of students beating up a teacher. This seem to be more prevalent in western schools especially in the schools in bad neighbourhood with alot of problematic students.

But we have a different system, where government schools, entrance is base on top grades only, so literally government schools get the best students, and all the wayward kids goes into private schools as they would get expelled from government schools anyway for either lousy grades or lousy behaviour.

Only good kids with good grades get to stay in government schools.

And alot of Asian parents, even from poverty backgrounds, expect their kids to do well in school, for grades. And Asian parents themselves generally use corporal punishment on their own kids at home for bad grades.

So in a way financial background are no obstacle to good students and good grades. As if the student is willing to put in effort, the school teachers also willing to help you with extra after school personal one on one extra help to help you keep up.

Usually when it comes to violence in school. It's always against another student. But never towards the educators. One of the big reason is they don't care if you are 14. If you beat up another student or a teacher. You get a criminal record, and they make it very clear to you, that it will be stigma to you for life. They will just bring the police in to handle it. There is also teenage prison which will make your life miserable. You can't live at home on weekdays, and will be confine to a prison-like lifestyle. Only allowed to go home once a week on Sunday.

My female principal also has her own "prison" system for struggling students. The prison is this student has to live with her from monday to saturday and only allowed to go home on sunday. And she runs a military style strict disciplinary lifestyle where all they are allowed to do is study. This is for students with really bad grades, and if the parents don't agree to this, they expel the kid. That's it.

Also correct me if I am wrong, but I have the impression that in the US. Black kids are more well behaved towards their parents than white kids towards their parents.

Somehow, Black moms are stricter and demand alot of respect from their children. And white moms usually let their kids run wild. I watch too much super nanny and white kids. Alot of their behaviour is unimaginable for an Asian kid.

If you see my friend's 3 yr old. She sits quietly and obeys everything. That's it. Doesn't throw a tantrum, kick a fuss.


I rarely see any Asian children misbehaving.
When they do misbehave, it is not for long, if the parents are around.

Your school system sounds fascinating!!
One of the problems with the American public school system, is many parents and students do not respect or appreciate it.

Many schools need to have social workers, behavioral treatment specialists, psychologists, and psychiatrists on the premises.

Teachers can NOT fix all that is wrong with society.
We need some solutions, and we need them by yesterday.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 9:32:00 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Our public institutions are reflecting the problems of the community. But it is not the responsibility for our educators ... or our police to correct these problems. Our schools are for education and if a child cannot behave then they cannot be allowed to disrupt the education of others. They should not be allowed to attend school until their behavior is acceptable.

**They need to go to an alternative school, that has specialists trained to treat children with severe behavioral disorders.**
If the treatment is successful, then they can return, if that is the best solution.

The proper behavior has no color...black or white red or yellow all must be held to the same standard. Social mores are not an excuse for misbehavior.

Butch


I partly agree with you.
They should have been removed, for safety reasons, and sent to an alternative placement.
The fact the school system did not properly provide solutions for the students and the teachers, and the teachers QUIT, because they were not getting proper support is an abomination.

Wouldn't it be nice if the teachers, could sue the hell out of the state?
That would create some REAL, hope and change!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 9:39:36 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


In what other area, could people be ABUSED like these teachers were, and not be sued????
THESE teachers were abused!
Maybe she did not read the article.

These teachers were pushed, hit and kicked! One teacher had her hands held behind her back!!!

IN WHAT OTHER "PROFESSION" are people treated like this, and basically nothing is done!!!

They quit, this shit is beyond OUTRAGEOUS.



Maybe you should apply for a teaching job in Asia. And feel the difference. You will get alot more respect naturally for being the teacher. It comes with most Asian parents teaching their kids to respect their teachers as a norm.


Greta, if I were younger or not planning my next move, I would do that!!
I have served my time in the public school war zones, I would love to see the conditions improve
for the younger teachers and the students.

The other students suffer, when they have to sit in classes with this sort of behavior.
Its not always about us, its about the future.


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 9:47:38 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
Teachers can NOT fix all that is wrong with society.
We need some solutions, and we need them by yesterday.

We had counsellors in school for really troubled kids.

I think teachers and parents has to be able to work together. Like communicate with each other on how to help the kid and the parents need to back the teacher.

If the parents sides the kid against the teacher. My old principal got the right idea. Just kick the kid out. As there is no point. You cannot help a kid when the parents work against you.

And end of the day, the responsibility of raising that kid right lies in the parent's hands. So if you can't get a co-operative parents. No point attempting to school their kid.

I always believe in, help those that genuinely want help. That's it. Can't save everyone, there will always be those that fall through the crack.

But violence against teachers should have criminal consequences and lead to teenage jail. There is no excuse to attack a teacher.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/22/2017 10:26:56 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		Youth soccer referee resigns because of entitled parents.
Daily Mail-Soccer referee resigns, calling out entitled parents

From the article: "Avery Krut called out Beverly Hills' youth soccer parents in his resignation letter
He wrote that 'entitled' and 'disrespectful' parents are why he's decided to quit
Krut said he has come to 'despise' many of the parents, and think they're damaging their children
He worked at the Beverly Hills American Youth Soccer Organization for 15 years."


So many stories, so little time.

well, well, yeah, yeah

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 4:59:24 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		marini, you've mentioned this off and on a few times in your posts and others have to an extent also---the behavior of the students is bad enough yes, but its also terribly disconcerting to be in a position when, as a teacher, you experience an administration that does not have your back.

that, along with the violence in schools, is a fascinating phenomenon and one cannot help but think they are intimately related.

heres the obviously short, easier said than done version of a "school fix" for me:

bible, prayer and god back in the classroom.

more male teachers at the lower levels.

school choice.

and some version of getting the problem kids out of schools relatively quickly and creating alternative paths for them.

and everyone should watch "lean on me"

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 7:07:13 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
bible, prayer and god back in the classroom.
more male teachers at the lower levels.

This two seriously don't make sense. If you compare to Asian schools which is all non-religious. And is able to instill proper discipline and maintain order. And also run on majority Females. Smaller, petite, short, gentle, seemingly weaker females.

How is this even a solution?

quote:

and some version of getting the problem kids out of schools relatively quickly and creating alternative paths for them.
and everyone should watch "lean on me"

The solution is teenage jail in my opinion. In teenage jail, they still go to school, and get their learning done. They just don't get to go home. Whatever bad influence they had at home is taken away from them. Their parents loses power over them. They lose their freedom and get regiment on their lives. And their grades might actually improve if they can't do anything but study.

Fear of that, will keep them inline. Teenage jail doesn't have to have a criminal record that hurts them for life. But more like rehabilitation and they can go back to their normal lives when they are assessed to have developed self-discipline.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 7:07:40 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
on a whole 'nother level, one wonders to what extent classroom behavior would be changed if elementary/middle school teachers were less populated by women and more populated by men.


I would hope that there wouldn't be a difference, but there might be one. I'm not sure if it relates to behavioral issues, but it seems there is some academic outcome impact.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2008/sep/30/primaryschools.malerolemodels

http://www.nber.org/digest/may06/w11660.html



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 7:10:37 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
bible, prayer and god back in the classroom.


Which version of the Bible, Whose God and what prayers?

Would there be a penalty for not partaking?

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 7:10:38 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
There are so many issues here, its hard to know where to start.
Many of the parents today, are just not like many of our parents.
I did not say ALL, but some.
Many parents come to school and are confrontational with all the staff, often for no reason.
When I was in school, I KNEW I did NOT want the teacher to have to call my mother regarding "my behavior".

Oh no!!! You were not going to call my mother about my behavior!
My mother was a beautiful woman, but she was "old school".
LOL
I was more scared of my mother, than the teachers!
I did many things back in the day, but no teacher ever called about my behavior.
If they had called {it would have been about me skipping school, every other Friday}.

Back then, they didn't monitor attendance like they do these days.


My Dad was an Asst. Principal for a public city HS. Even though we lived in a suburb and attended a suburban HS, all the Principals and Vice-Principals knew each other and if I were to have gotten into trouble, he'd have found out within minutes.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 7:15:23 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Our public institutions are reflecting the problems of the community. But it is not the responsibility for our educators ... or our police to correct these problems. Our schools are for education and if a child cannot behave then they cannot be allowed to disrupt the education of others. They should not be allowed to attend school until their behavior is acceptable.
The proper behavior has no color...black or white red or yellow all must be held to the same standard. Social mores are not an excuse for misbehavior.
Butch


We agree on this. How do you get parents who are not parenting in a way that results in students with better behavior?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 7:32:15 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
bible, prayer and god back in the classroom.
more male teachers at the lower levels.


This two seriously don't make sense. If you compare to Asian schools which is all non-religious. And is able to instill proper discipline and maintain order. And also run on majority Females. Smaller, petite, short, gentle, seemingly weaker females.

How is this even a solution?


greta read my earlier posts; that question has already been answered.

also, we're not in asia.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 7:39:56 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
on a whole 'nother level, one wonders to what extent classroom behavior would be changed if elementary/middle school teachers were less populated by women and more populated by men.


I would hope that there wouldn't be a difference, but there might be one. I'm not sure if it relates to behavioral issues, but it seems there is some academic outcome impact.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2008/sep/30/primaryschools.malerolemodels

http://www.nber.org/digest/may06/w11660.html




go back desi and peek at my post #30 above. some of the answers to that question are there.

but also, just in a broad sort of way, if the best homes to raise children are indeed ones where a mother AND a father work together, then its easy to extend that principle to kids at the elementary school level, where they actually spend more time than at home.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 7:48:02 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Our public institutions are reflecting the problems of the community. But it is not the responsibility for our educators ... or our police to correct these problems. Our schools are for education and if a child cannot behave then they cannot be allowed to disrupt the education of others. They should not be allowed to attend school until their behavior is acceptable.
The proper behavior has no color...black or white red or yellow all must be held to the same standard. Social mores are not an excuse for misbehavior.
Butch


We agree on this. How do you get parents who are not parenting in a way that results in students with better behavior?


I've always liked the idea of a parenting exam: check them out when the mother starts the pre-natal and if they're not up to raising a kid, make her get an abortion.
Of course, that's a preventative measure, and no use in dealing with the broods of feral goblins "raised" by people who you wouldn't trust to feed your a goldfish over a weekend, never mind look after kids.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 9:29:57 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
I've always liked the idea of a parenting exam: check them out when the mother starts the pre-natal and if they're not up to raising a kid, make her get an abortion.
Of course, that's a preventative measure, and no use in dealing with the broods of feral goblins "raised" by people who you wouldn't trust to feed your a goldfish over a weekend, never mind look after kids.


Wouldn't sit well with the Pro-Life crowd, either. Plus, if we did require an exam, the US population would stagnate, if not decline. Those who know they're good parents aren't going to pop out too many kids to cover those who aren't good parents. Knowing their limitations is part of being good parents.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to WhoreMods)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: 45 Teachers Resign from PA schools due to student v... - 11/23/2017 9:44:59 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Our public institutions are reflecting the problems of the community. But it is not the responsibility for our educators ... or our police to correct these problems. Our schools are for education and if a child cannot behave then they cannot be allowed to disrupt the education of others. They should not be allowed to attend school until their behavior is acceptable.
The proper behavior has no color...black or white red or yellow all must be held to the same standard. Social mores are not an excuse for misbehavior.
Butch


We agree on this. How do you get parents who are not parenting in a way that results in students with better behavior?



Resources are scarce in our public school systems and should not be spent attempting to correct student behavior. Troubled children that are removed from school because of bad behavior should be reported to social services and they should investigate the child's home life. It is up to us as taxpayers if we are to properly fund these services to save these children. This is tough with the anti-tax culture we live in today. Lets face it... answers cost money ...manpower and time.

Our choice... well adjusted tax payers of the future... or welfare burdens at best and criminals at worst that drain our tax money and put our lives in danger.


Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 60
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