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Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/21/2017 6:37:33 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		FCC: Net Neutrality" rules governing the actions of Internet-service providers (ISPs) and mobile carriers, Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Chairman Ajit Pai has an in-your-face prediction for his critics:

"Over the coming years, we're going to see an explosion in the kinds of connectivity and the depth of that connectivity," he said this afternoon. "Ultimately that means that the human capital in the United States that's currently on the shelf—the people who don't have digital opportunity—will become participants in the digital economy."

I certainly don't agree at all of course. There is nothing stopping the ISP's from doing everything one can think of now.

First question: what 'kinds' of conductivity could he be talking about and with all of the billion$ they take in now, why only now for all of this hype ? Why haven't we seen this already ? Can't be the investment required being a block.

Now he could mean after a few years of setting up say two more tiers ((speed) in service, gouging those that want the higher tiers.

I see this as nothing more than a new profit center and because the market for high speed Internet is not that broad.

I predict the ISP's, typical of the greedy capitalist who have been drooling over this for years and no 'improvements' for many years and will likely screw it all up, after they screw us.

I predict a maximium 10 mps for ALL basic service and maybe 50 and 100 mps speed tiers will show up. There will be no innovation because the basic 10 mps service will not be there area of pursuit.

HERE

IF there is investment, it will be for higher speed and more broadband for business users, not the home-based users.

Pai’s plan would jettison rules that prohibit internet service providers from blocking or slowing web traffic or creating so-called paid internet fast lanes, the people familiar with the changes said.

Pai also will follow through on his plans to scrap the legal foundation that the FCC’s old Democratic majority adopted in 2015 to tighten federal oversight of internet service providers, a move he contends has deterred the industry from investing in broadband networks. Internet providers have feared that legal foundation, if left in place, could set the stage for possible government price regulation of internet service.

HERE

Why ? Bullshit, if the 'stage' hasn't already been set, why would they fear that now ? Now of course again typically, thy gouge for high speed broadband...that would be a worry. Plus, I've seen no advancements in WiFi since its advent, so.....? Why now ? Forget it. This is once again...all about money.

We all know that in America, deregulation is about profits...nothing more.

Google is and has been for years under the current net-neutrality, installing fiber optic in major markets for the state-of-the art speed and about as broad a broadband as we are ever going to get and...without these changes.

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.

We in the west enjoy millions of jobs and universally used advancements due to 22 inventions...provided by Govt. Most profits today in technology are from riding the back of initial govt. investment.

Nice gifts for the investor class if Santa knows you've been good.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith
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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 4:20:37 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.


excuse me what?? that's laughable.

however that aside----as to your semi-histrionic thread title---"the 'end' of the internet?"

this is perhaps an overly broad statement that may or may not address the specifics of your post, but the internet was going along swimmingly from the time of its inception until for some heavy handed reason the Obama administration decided more regulation was in order. restoring something to its previous successful state signifies its "end?" riiight.

(or maybe its just for effect and im overreacting?)

oh my---"profits," the horrors! god forbid people should want to go about their business without being regulated by the government!

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 11/22/2017 4:34:19 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 4:59:16 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.


excuse me what?? that's laughable.

The ARPANET that the internet evolved from wasn't originally created to connect publicly funded academic and military computer networks, then? The refinement of the ARPANET into CNET and similar networks that were open to the public was nothing to do with the National Science Foundation?
I'd be interested to see your working out if you're seriously trying to argue otherwise.

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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 5:37:51 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 11232
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.


excuse me what?? that's laughable.

The ARPANET that the internet evolved from wasn't originally created to connect publicly funded academic and military computer networks, then? The refinement of the ARPANET into CNET and similar networks that were open to the public was nothing to do with the National Science Foundation?
I'd be interested to see your working out if you're seriously trying to argue otherwise.


Sorry little whore boy - "publicly funded" isn't the same as "government"

Doctors and nurses are publicly funded, doesn't mean that government heals "most people"

Though military minds have been responsible for most technological advances since before the time of Moses

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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 6:08:51 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		not to mention that the part of the quote I highlighted was not "internet specific" but rather the claim in general that government is responsible for "most things technological."

although in retrospect I could have been more clear on that.

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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 7:48:53 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.


excuse me what?? that's laughable.

The ARPANET that the internet evolved from wasn't originally created to connect publicly funded academic and military computer networks, then? The refinement of the ARPANET into CNET and similar networks that were open to the public was nothing to do with the National Science Foundation?
I'd be interested to see your working out if you're seriously trying to argue otherwise.


Sorry little whore boy - "publicly funded" isn't the same as "government"

Doctors and nurses are publicly funded, doesn't mean that government heals "most people"

Though military minds have been responsible for most technological advances since before the time of Moses

If you seriously think you can construct an argument that the military and NSF aren't government bodies and that the computer scientists in academia and the military weren't working to government contracts when they came up with ARPANET, TCP/IP and the rest of the stuff that the internet is based on, then you're even further out where the buses don't run than I thought.
I know it's a sore point for the sort of uber libertarian IT entrepreneurs who like to imagine that they made their breakthroughs in a vacuum, but the American computer industry has been propped up by government contracts (that is publicly funded with tax money) since the '40s. You wouldn't have a PC on your desk if the evil feds hadn't spent years underwriting IBM until rival mainframe manufacturers started to emerge in the '60s.

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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 9:34:24 AM   
MasterDrakk


Posts: 321
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.


excuse me what?? that's laughable.

The ARPANET that the internet evolved from wasn't originally created to connect publicly funded academic and military computer networks, then? The refinement of the ARPANET into CNET and similar networks that were open to the public was nothing to do with the National Science Foundation?
I'd be interested to see your working out if you're seriously trying to argue otherwise.


Sorry little whore boy - "publicly funded" isn't the same as "government"

Doctors and nurses are publicly funded, doesn't mean that government heals "most people"

Though military minds have been responsible for most technological advances since before the time of Moses

U.S. Department of Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA, now known as DARPA), the government agency responsible for creating a time-sharing network of computers known as ARPANET.

By publicly funded he means the government with taxpayer money as opposed to private funding (like corporations and R & D which really is not big in the USA). So yes, publicly funded means government. Rightists are innumerate and should not speak aloud on any subject touching finance. They are wholly and pervasively unknowledgeable on these subjects.


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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 10:17:01 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.


excuse me what?? that's laughable.

The ARPANET that the internet evolved from wasn't originally created to connect publicly funded academic and military computer networks, then? The refinement of the ARPANET into CNET and similar networks that were open to the public was nothing to do with the National Science Foundation?
I'd be interested to see your working out if you're seriously trying to argue otherwise.


Sorry little whore boy - "publicly funded" isn't the same as "government"

Doctors and nurses are publicly funded, doesn't mean that government heals "most people"

Though military minds have been responsible for most technological advances since before the time of Moses

If you seriously think you can construct an argument that the military and NSF aren't government bodies and that the computer scientists in academia and the military weren't working to government contracts when they came up with ARPANET, TCP/IP and the rest of the stuff that the internet is based on, then you're even further out where the buses don't run than I thought.
I know it's a sore point for the sort of uber libertarian IT entrepreneurs who like to imagine that they made their breakthroughs in a vacuum, but the American computer industry has been propped up by government contracts (that is publicly funded with tax money) since the '40s. You wouldn't have a PC on your desk if the evil feds hadn't spent years underwriting IBM until rival mainframe manufacturers started to emerge in the '60s.

You are correct and govt. up until 2013, had funded over 50% of R & D, when budgets neg. for the first time in history cut research funding to less than 1/2 of all funding. 70% of all R & D funding was govt. funded. 61% as late as 2004 and didn't go below 50% until '13.

It's the R & D research that develops how technology becomes what ? A marketable product or service that turned into massive Billion$ in profit, almost all of which was thanks to govt. (taxpayer)

You see, it's complete mythology reading of the swashbuckling, risk taking capitalist, making it...unmitigated bullshit. The capitalist is risk averse and waits for the govt. funded research actually does what ?

Govt. takes the risks involved in the earliest stages of not only development...but of invention. Then the capitalist jumps on and rides the backs of govt. funded researchers, free loading on the dev. and laughs all of the way to the bank.

I will do a post sometime.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to WhoreMods)
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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 10:29:35 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

not to mention that the part of the quote I highlighted was not "internet specific" but rather the claim in general that government is responsible for "most things technological."

although in retrospect I could have been more clear on that.

How about you cite for us any technology-based industry that was 100% privately funded and developed from discovery to sales. And when I mean 100% I mean every fucking penny spent came from corp. or private business coffers.

I think you'll be a very long time before you find any at all...if you do. And I expect you will not come back with some spinning, partisan banalities like, 'well govt. is so involved in our lives, that they don't exist.'

You may need to go back to the 19th century and while one might even then, call it 'technology' it almost assuredly will not have anything to do with electronic technology which is the basis now for 10's of millions of jobs and likely Trillion$ in GDP.



_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 10:29:58 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		so we can ignore the blatant money grab and more regulations(for the user) and fight over who owns or started the interwebs.
seems so reasonable, more head in sand ass in the air partisan stupidity.
Too many people dont understand what it means let alone how it will affect them
It started with SOPA and people are still ignorant of how it will affect their computing habits. even more so their wallets.



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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 10:30:51 AM   
MasterDrakk


Posts: 321
Status: offline 		There is some thought that they discovered the destruction of net-neutrality and are funding that, or isn't that what you had in mind?

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RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 10:39:05 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDrakk

There is some thought that they discovered the destruction of net-neutrality and are funding that, or isn't that what you had in mind?

You see that right there is the job of the corp. Let others take the risk, dev. a market, and the corp. will take over, buy all of the local/regional providers, create a huge, powerful, non-competitive marketplace and then lobby for (fund) even less restrictions and again...laugh all of the way to the bank.

So you have it. Corp, 'fund' their own 'R & D'. Corp. [R & D] is funding not innovation but manipulation of the marketplace dev. at others risk and into how to use govt. and everybody else, reduce comp. and make Billion$.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to MasterDrakk)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 10:44:53 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.


excuse me what?? that's laughable.

The ARPANET that the internet evolved from wasn't originally created to connect publicly funded academic and military computer networks, then? The refinement of the ARPANET into CNET and similar networks that were open to the public was nothing to do with the National Science Foundation?
I'd be interested to see your working out if you're seriously trying to argue otherwise.


Sorry little whore boy - "publicly funded" isn't the same as "government"

Doctors and nurses are publicly funded, doesn't mean that government heals "most people"

Though military minds have been responsible for most technological advances since before the time of Moses

How ridiculous can you get ? You know damn well the topic is govt. funded R & D. The R & D which innovation requires, particularly in advancements in electronic technology.

How's this ? The dev. of MRI's were invented by govt. funding, for just one and I could go on.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 11:07:52 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

Politicos tech writer then asks the rhetorical question, Who invented the Internet ? Well of course like most things technologhical...GOVT.


excuse me what?? that's laughable.

however that aside----as to your semi-histrionic thread title---"the 'end' of the internet?"

this is perhaps an overly broad statement that may or may not address the specifics of your post, but the internet was going along swimmingly from the time of its inception until for some heavy handed reason the Obama administration decided more regulation was in order. restoring something to its previous successful state signifies its "end?" riiight.

(or maybe its just for effect and im overreacting?)

oh my---"profits," the horrors! god forbid people should want to go about their business without being regulated by the government!

Bullshit. All Obama did was keep net-neutrality. If you can and I doubt you can, cite Obama's "heavy-handed' increase in reg.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 9:59:11 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline 		I somewhat understand the premise here.
Can anyone "break this down", as to how "net neutrality" will effect the average Joe citizen?

Will rates go up?
Will we have less choices, with more monopolies?
More big brother watching us, as if we did not know that was coming?

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 10:22:50 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		K, Rachel maddow did a spot on this last night that was quite informative and in depth.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-fcc-would-close-internet-with-revocation-of-net-neutrality-1101444675753
And it was explained back in 2014, again MSNBC because I had the link from the time.
http://www.msnbc.com/velshi-ruhle/watch/explaining-net-neutrality-997992003924

But I've also got another couple of links. Because its left leaning, and therefore "fake news"

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/289416
How Changes to Net Neutrality Laws Could Affect Small Businesses
A new administration and a new FCC chairman could roll back recent laws that make sure the internet is a level playing field.

The other end of the spectrum from left to right...Another link I had from back in 14.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/11/10/7-reasons-net-neutrality/

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/11/network-neutrality-cant-fix-the-internet/546620/
Network Neutrality Can't Fix the Internet
The FCC is poised to dismantle common carriage for broadband and wireless providers. That’s bad, but the internet itself is worse.

Also Wiki has a link about it.
I know ive been into it because my livelihood is internet based. Its also been mentioned a few times on the forum. If you need more info:)

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 10:52:16 PM   
Danemora


Posts: 752
Joined: 10/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I somewhat understand the premise here.
Can anyone "break this down", as to how "net neutrality" will effect the average Joe citizen?

Will rates go up?
Will we have less choices, with more monopolies?
More big brother watching us, as if we did not know that was coming?


Im not knowledgeable on this topic either. I found this article helpful for my understanding of what net neutrality is and why it will cost us while bringing more profits to ISPs, etc.

EXPLAINED: 'Net Neutrality' For Dummies, How It Affects You, And Why It Might Cost You More


_____________________________

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(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 11:06:37 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

K, Rachel maddow did a spot on this last night that was quite informative and in depth.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-fcc-would-close-internet-with-revocation-of-net-neutrality-1101444675753
And it was explained back in 2014, again MSNBC because I had the link from the time.
http://www.msnbc.com/velshi-ruhle/watch/explaining-net-neutrality-997992003924

But I've also got another couple of links. Because its left leaning, and therefore "fake news"

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/289416
How Changes to Net Neutrality Laws Could Affect Small Businesses
A new administration and a new FCC chairman could roll back recent laws that make sure the internet is a level playing field.

The other end of the spectrum from left to right...Another link I had from back in 14.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/11/10/7-reasons-net-neutrality/

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/11/network-neutrality-cant-fix-the-internet/546620/
Network Neutrality Can't Fix the Internet
The FCC is poised to dismantle common carriage for broadband and wireless providers. That’s bad, but the internet itself is worse.

Also Wiki has a link about it.
I know ive been into it because my livelihood is internet based. Its also been mentioned a few times on the forum. If you need more info:)


Thank you.
They really want to control what we can view on the net?
Many of us are already paying a nice sum of money, for an internet connection!
They want you to pay "more" to be able to "go" wherever you want on the internet?
WTF

Unbridled capitalism will play a large part in the destruction of western civilization.
They have no limits!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/22/2017 11:09:06 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I somewhat understand the premise here.
Can anyone "break this down", as to how "net neutrality" will effect the average Joe citizen?

Will rates go up?
Will we have less choices, with more monopolies?
More big brother watching us, as if we did not know that was coming?


Im not knowledgeable on this topic either. I found this article helpful for my understanding of what net neutrality is and why it will cost us while bringing more profits to ISPs, etc.

EXPLAINED: 'Net Neutrality' For Dummies, How It Affects You, And Why It Might Cost You More



Anything for "dummies" I usually like.
Thank you, I have the big picture now.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Danemora)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Net neutrality - end or explosion of...the Internet ? - 11/23/2017 5:02:25 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I somewhat understand the premise here.
Can anyone "break this down", as to how "net neutrality" will effect the average Joe citizen?

Will rates go up?
Will we have less choices, with more monopolies?
More big brother watching us, as if we did not know that was coming?

Of course rates will go up: that's what this is all about.
It's quite possible that areas where there aren't enough people willing to pay an arm and a leg for fibre optic connections will have the less lucrative provision of ordinary broadband discontinued as well.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 20
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