RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected

RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (Full Version)

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JVoV -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 6:24:48 PM)
I am honestly sickened by the possible implications of the Flynn deal. And I'm afraid of what's to come for our country. I find no joy in the possibility that our President was cooperating with a foreign power to win the election. But the evidence continues coming. I don't see how any of this could actually be good for our country. What happens if/when Trump resigns or gets impeached? Obviously, Pence gets a promotion, but what about Trump's base? Will Pence pardon Trump, or let justice prevail? If the investigation extends past summer, then I would be worried about the 2018 elections. Democrats have much more to lose, facing 25 re-election (27 if you count Bernie and the other Independent), while Republicans only have 9 seats up for grabs. And we're only 10 days away from Alabama's special election, and polls are really just too damn close. Scary shit. But even if R's lose the seat, that puts the Senate in an exact tie for 2018's calendar, with the VP serving as a tiebreaker when necessary. Scary shit.

kdsub -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 6:37:09 PM)
If Trump were to be impeached the Republican party will be better off for it. What is sickening is the possibility that a traitor is President of the United States. Trump, if innocent, could have encouraged an investigation and been done with it... The country could have moved forward with faith in the office of the Presidency. Now, because of his attempts to obstruct the investigation, only the very faithful believe in his innocence. Even if nothing comes of the investigation I believe he has ended his chance at reelection. As a side note Trump's impeachment will not be a victory for the Democrats. Trump is doing more to hold back the Republican agenda than the minority party. With him out of the way and a competent replacement the Republican could be on their way to true domination of our political scene. Butch

BoscoX -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 6:41:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub You see that is one of his problems among many... he was not President and his actions could be considered against the law. He was president-elect. His actions could only be considered illegal in your cartoonish imagination, not reality quote: You cannot have two Presidents making policy for the nation. Butch Only if it is a Republican that your propaganda feeds are howling about though quote: On July 24, 2008, then-senator Obama delivered a speech in Berlin, Germany four months before winning the presidential election, and six months before he was sworn into office. At the start of his remarks, Obama thanked Chancellor Angela Merkel and then-Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier for personally welcoming him earlier in the day. Presumably during that welcome, Obama and the aforementioned leaders of Germany exchanged pleasantries, and they might have even had a conversation. Not to mention, Obama is traveling the world right now meeting with many foreign leaders Why don't we see you howling about that

BoscoX -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 6:44:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV I am honestly sickened by the possible implications of the Flynn deal. And I'm afraid of what's to come for our country. I find no joy in the possibility that our President was cooperating with a foreign power to win the election. But the evidence continues coming. I don't see how any of this could actually be good for our country. What happens if/when Trump resigns or gets impeached? Obviously, Pence gets a promotion, but what about Trump's base? Will Pence pardon Trump, or let justice prevail? If the investigation extends past summer, then I would be worried about the 2018 elections. Democrats have much more to lose, facing 25 re-election (27 if you count Bernie and the other Independent), while Republicans only have 9 seats up for grabs. And we're only 10 days away from Alabama's special election, and polls are really just too damn close. Scary shit. But even if R's lose the seat, that puts the Senate in an exact tie for 2018's calendar, with the VP serving as a tiebreaker when necessary. Scary shit. Again, there is zero evidence anywhere that President Trump had anything to do with changing the election outcome with "the Russians" Face facts, your pussyhat queen was just a piss poor choice on your part

kdsub -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 6:45:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub You see that is one of his problems among many... he was not President and his actions could be considered against the law. But only in your imagination, not reality quote: You cannot have two Presidents making policy for the nation. Butch Only if it is a Republican that your propaganda feeds are howling about though quote: On July 24, 2008, then-senator Obama delivered a speech in Berlin, Germany four months before winning the presidential election, and six months before he was sworn into office. At the start of his remarks, Obama thanked Chancellor Angela Merkel and then-Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier for personally welcoming him earlier in the day. Presumably during that welcome, Obama and the aforementioned leaders of Germany exchanged pleasantries, and they might have even had a conversation. Not to mention, Obama is traveling the world right now meeting with many foreign leaders Why don't we see you howling about that Obama is not making policy.... neither is Clinton Butch

BoscoX -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 6:48:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Obama is not making policy.... neither is Clinton Butch Probably just discussing his grandchildren then And what about this: quote: On July 24, 2008, then-senator Obama delivered a speech in Berlin, Germany four months before winning the presidential election, and six months before he was sworn into office. At the start of his remarks, Obama thanked Chancellor Angela Merkel and then-Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier for personally welcoming him earlier in the day. Presumably during that welcome, Obama and the aforementioned leaders of Germany exchanged pleasantries, and they might have even had a conversation. That was all about policy Lock him up?

JVoV -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 7:36:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV I am honestly sickened by the possible implications of the Flynn deal. And I'm afraid of what's to come for our country. I find no joy in the possibility that our President was cooperating with a foreign power to win the election. But the evidence continues coming. I don't see how any of this could actually be good for our country. What happens if/when Trump resigns or gets impeached? Obviously, Pence gets a promotion, but what about Trump's base? Will Pence pardon Trump, or let justice prevail? If the investigation extends past summer, then I would be worried about the 2018 elections. Democrats have much more to lose, facing 25 re-election (27 if you count Bernie and the other Independent), while Republicans only have 9 seats up for grabs. And we're only 10 days away from Alabama's special election, and polls are really just too damn close. Scary shit. But even if R's lose the seat, that puts the Senate in an exact tie for 2018's calendar, with the VP serving as a tiebreaker when necessary. Scary shit. Again, there is zero evidence anywhere that President Trump had anything to do with changing the election outcome with "the Russians" Face facts, your pussyhat queen was just a piss poor choice on your part Not on my part. I voted for Bernie before I unenthusiastically voted for Clinton. The Mueller investigation seems to be dealing with obstructions of justice for now. As you and I have both said, an administration-elect is free to meet with foreign diplomats. And yes, Obama met with foreign diplomats even during the election. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/18/obama.trip/index.html I do not have an actual issue with Trump or anyone in his administration meeting with foreign officials, and that is not what Flynn was charged with. The charge is lying to the FBI, AKA obstruction of justice. Flynn specifically lied about what he said during one of those meetings with the Russian official. And for the life of me, I do not understand why. Reversing as much of Obama's legacy as possible was part of Trump's platform. With Obama initiating sanctions (I believe) on the exact same day of the meeting, I would reasonably expect the Russian official to ask the administration-elect about it. And I would also reasonably expect Flynn to give an encouraging but vague answer, very similar to what is in the charges. So why lie? Why try to cover it up? That boggles my mind and leads to several questions. Who was he protecting? What did he think had been done illegally? Had it? His plea deal is contingent on cooperating with the investigation(s) going forward. That doesn't happen unless there is a bigger fish to fry. So how far up the food chain does this go?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 10:40:15 PM)
I can help with the first part: quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV So why lie? Why try to cover it up? That boggles my mind and leads to several questions. Who was he protecting? What did he think had been done illegally? Had it? Of course, in-coming presidents and their chosen representatives (Obviously, there's no "cabinet", yet) are "allowed" to meet with foreign leaders or their representatives. It's become quite common-place. The issue is they're not allowed to *negotiate* with foreign leaders/representatives because in this country, we have *ONE* president/administration-at-a-time. If Flynn said anything akin to the reports I've heard that go along the lines of: "Don't worry about those Obama sanctions. We're going to change those as soon as we get in. Please ask Vlad to not retaliate. It will all be fine.", he is guilty of violating (I guess it's not exactly law but ...) standards and practices. It's some kind of "no-no" (I looked it up. It's called: "The Logan Act". It's interesting to note that NO ONE - not even Jane Fonda - has ever been prosecuted under it, according to my reading). If President-elect Trump sent him with that specific message, that is a big deal. Just as an example, since someone else mentioned Obama: Remember that open mike gaff, where he said: "Tell Vlad this is my last election. I'll have more flexibility, after it's over"? Had he not already been president, that would have been the same type of violation. quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV His plea deal is contingent on cooperating with the investigation(s) going forward. That doesn't happen unless there is a bigger fish to fry. So how far up the food chain does this go? His plea deal (the inclusion of co-operation), which is pretty much boiler plate, is "scary" on two levels: President Trump *may have* some exposure, here. The second is President Trump may *NOT* have some exposure, here and the investigators past history of showing a preference for Shrillary and democrats, in general, might cause them to disbelieve that Flynn has no information about "Russian Collusion" and rescind the deal. With that sword of Damocles hanging over his head, Flynn might decide to give them what they want. Not only would that be bad for President Trump, but the bastardization of law would be bad for the country.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/2/2017 10:43:00 PM)
Double post for some reason.

BoscoX -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 6:13:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV So why lie? Why try to cover it up? That boggles my mind and leads to several questions. Who was he protecting? What did he think had been done illegally? Had it? Let's ask the president what he thinks about the guy he fired for lying: quote: Trump says Michael Flynn's actions during transition were 'lawful' and 'there was nothing to hide' President Donald Trump defended Michael Flynn, even as he acknowledged having to fire the former general for lying to federal officials, including the Vice President. "There was nothing to hide!" Trump exclaimed in a tweet, hours after he told reporters there was "no collusion" between his campaign and Russia. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/02/trump-says-michael-flynns-actions-during-transition-were-lawful-and-there-was-nothing-to-hide.html?recirc=taboolainternal So... Flynn is apparently just an idiot who lied for no reason Happens all the time Leftists need this to claim victory after their pussyhat queen lost though, so they have to pretend there are all kinds of mysterious deep dark Russian conspiracies in their almost cartoonish delusions The simplest answer will never do for those types

MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 7:41:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Of course, in-coming presidents and their chosen representatives (Obviously, there's no "cabinet", yet) are "allowed" to meet with foreign leaders or their representatives. It's become quite common-place. The issue is they're not allowed to *negotiate* with foreign leaders/representatives because in this country, we have *ONE* president/administration-at-a-time. If Flynn said anything akin to the reports I've heard that go along the lines of: "Don't worry about those Obama sanctions. We're going to change those as soon as we get in. Please ask Vlad to not retaliate. It will all be fine.", he is guilty of violating (I guess it's not exactly law but ...) standards and practices. It's some kind of "no-no" (I looked it up. It's called: "The Logan Act". It's interesting to note that NO ONE - not even Jane Fonda - has ever been prosecuted under it, according to my reading). If President-elect Trump sent him with that specific message, that is a big deal. We will find out very soon that Flynn has told Mueller that very thing. That the President-elect sent him with that specific message. My prediction... By the end of January, we will have 98% of the facts.

MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 7:44:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV So why lie? Why try to cover it up? That boggles my mind and leads to several questions. Who was he protecting? What did he think had been done illegally? Had it? Let's ask the president what he thinks about the guy he fired for lying: quote: Trump says Michael Flynn's actions during transition were 'lawful' and 'there was nothing to hide' President Donald Trump defended Michael Flynn, even as he acknowledged having to fire the former general for lying to federal officials, including the Vice President. "There was nothing to hide!" Trump exclaimed in a tweet, hours after he told reporters there was "no collusion" between his campaign and Russia. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/02/trump-says-michael-flynns-actions-during-transition-were-lawful-and-there-was-nothing-to-hide.html?recirc=taboolainternal So... Flynn is apparently just an idiot who lied for no reason Happens all the time Leftists need this to claim victory after their pussyhat queen lost though, so they have to pretend there are all kinds of mysterious deep dark Russian conspiracies in their almost cartoonish delusions The simplest answer will never do for those types Trump hiring idiots happens all the time? I don't think so. Trump is not an idiot. Nor are the people he hires. Rather, he is simply FILLING the swamp.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 7:45:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01 (Emphasis by DaddySatyr) quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Of course, in-coming presidents and their chosen representatives (Obviously, there's no "cabinet", yet) are "allowed" to meet with foreign leaders or their representatives. It's become quite common-place. The issue is they're not allowed to *negotiate* with foreign leaders/representatives because in this country, we have *ONE* president/administration-at-a-time. If Flynn said anything akin to the reports I've heard that go along the lines of: "Don't worry about those Obama sanctions. We're going to change those as soon as we get in. Please ask Vlad to not retaliate. It will all be fine.", he is guilty of violating (I guess it's not exactly law but ...) standards and practices. It's some kind of "no-no" (I looked it up. It's called: "The Logan Act". It's interesting to note that NO ONE - not even Jane Fonda - has ever been prosecuted under it, according to my reading). If President-elect Trump sent him with that specific message, that is a big deal. We will find out very soon that Flynn has told Mueller that very thing. That the President-elect sent him with that specific message. My prediction... By the end of January, we will have 98% of the facts. True enough, but I question the motivation/veracity: quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr His plea deal (the inclusion of co-operation), which is pretty much boiler plate, is "scary" on two levels: President Trump *may have* some exposure, here. The second is President Trump may *NOT* have some exposure, here and the investigators past history of showing a preference for Shrillary and democrats, in general, might cause them to disbelieve that Flynn has no information about "Russian Collusion" and rescind the deal. With that sword of Damocles hanging over his head, Flynn might decide to give them what they want. Not only would that be bad for President Trump, but the bastardization of law would be bad for the country.

BoscoX -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 8:23:19 AM)
Since the day he announced, "this is the end of Trump" Today is just another day, exactly like every other. Some fool has theories he thinks are real with no basis in fact and no evidence other than the same constant "unnamed sources" propaganda drivel we have been hearing from day one that never pans out It's supposed to be a crime for a president-elect to meet with foreign leaders, but Obama did that in 2008 as a mere candidate, and he is also doing that right now as we speak as a former president Another of those millions of things that are only bad if it was a Republican who might have done it

Nnanji -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 1:03:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 From the report: 1) He asked the Russian ambasador to pass on the request that the incoming administration would like Russia to refrain from drastic action as a result of the sanctions passed that day... What the hell is wrong with that? Of course is that was all the conversation dealt with, why the fuck did he lie about the conversation? Now if there was a promise the new administration would get the sanctions removed, that's different. "Mr. Ambassador, the president elect would appreciate your government not going bat shit over the new sanctions since we will be dealing with a lot of crap during transition." "Mr Flynn I will pass the request to our government." "thanks" Flynn’s comment was on par with Obama saying into an open mic that th Russians should wait until he’s re-elected and he would talk to them then. Same thing. And Obama never lied to us is why he’s not in jail....

DaddySatyr -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 1:28:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji Flynn’s comment was on par with Obama saying into an open mic that th Russians should wait until he’s re-elected and he would talk to them then. Same thing. And Obama never lied to us is why he’s not in jail.... Actually, I posted about "The Logan Act" earlier and made the case had Obummer NOT been president at the time, it would have been an issue (although NO ONE including Hanoi Jane and John Kerry have ever been prosecuted under the act). Peace, Michael

kdsub -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 5:38:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Obama is not making policy.... neither is Clinton Butch Probably just discussing his grandchildren then And what about this: quote: On July 24, 2008, then-senator Obama delivered a speech in Berlin, Germany four months before winning the presidential election, and six months before he was sworn into office. At the start of his remarks, Obama thanked Chancellor Angela Merkel and then-Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier for personally welcoming him earlier in the day. Presumably during that welcome, Obama and the aforementioned leaders of Germany exchanged pleasantries, and they might have even had a conversation. That was all about policy Lock him up? He was not elected yet... he was not making policy under a setting President.

Lucylastic -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 5:39:01 PM)
FR. Flynn wasnt the president. And lied to the FBI about "secwet" meetings with russians. Setting up a "back door" with Don Jr and jared with the russians on sanctions. Its got naff all to do with what Obama did, out in the open, and everything to do with what Flynn did behind closed doors. Thats why he is co operating with Mueller. DS is right, one president at a time. And Logan act. Whether its relevant today, is not something the public get to decide

MasterJaguar01 -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/3/2017 5:49:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX Since the day he announced, "this is the end of Trump" Today is just another day, exactly like every other. Some fool has theories he thinks are real with no basis in fact and no evidence other than the same constant "unnamed sources" propaganda drivel we have been hearing from day one that never pans out It's supposed to be a crime for a president-elect to meet with foreign leaders, but Obama did that in 2008 as a mere candidate, and he is also doing that right now as we speak as a former president Another of those millions of things that are only bad if it was a Republican who might have done it It is NOT a crime for a president-elect to meet with foreign leaders. IT IS a crime to make a quid-pro-quo deal involving US Foreign Policy as president-elect. (e.g. "Help me win the election by hacking into the DNC's email server, and I will drop the sanctions on Russia vis-a-vis Ukraine."). In fact, since sanctions on Russia were part of U.S foreign policy, that quid pro quo deal is treason. I think we will see precise evidence of that quid pro quo deal.

itsSIRtou -> RE: Michael Flynn charged in Russia investigation, guilty plea expected (12/5/2017 12:53:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoscoX Since the day he announced, "this is the end of Trump" Today is just another day, exactly like every other. Some fool has theories he thinks are real with no basis in fact and no evidence other than the same constant "unnamed sources" propaganda drivel we have been hearing from day one that never pans out It's supposed to be a crime for a president-elect to meet with foreign leaders, but Obama did that in 2008 as a mere candidate, and he is also doing that right now as we speak as a former president Another of those millions of things that are only bad if it was a Republican who might have done it and in both cases all meetings were/are above board and out in the open. As a candidate, as a former President - no hiding, no backdoor official deal making undercutting the current president at those times, bush or rump. there is only ONE repugincan who's done it the "bad" way.....thats rump. I wonder if boss-hoe will stand in a corner and hold his breath untill he turns blue in the face, when rump gets indicted of anything?? because u know, when that happends the only reason for doing so is a solid conviction of rump is possible. I'd pay money to see that.... (a blue boss-hoe that is....)

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