Noah
Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: LASub4Real
I think it can be a bit confusing. I mean, I don't know any Masochists who would like to drop an anvil on their foot! Neither do I know of any who sleep on barbed wire. I don't know anyone who likes pain just for pain's sake. There might be a few out there, I just hae never met them. So then you have the idea of submission, but how can you "submit" to receiving a back massage? You might as well be submitting to a warm cup of cocoa with marshmallows. I think what works is when a sub is willing to endure some level of discomfort or pain in order to bring pleasure to the paingiver.
Conversely, I would worry about a Sadist who simply got pleasure from creating suffering. I'd half expect to see such a person buying a lot of animals for a little "fun." Yet I can completely understand the enjoyment, pride and excitement that a sadist might feel when a submissive trusts him/her enough to suffer for them.
Lasub
Well there are plenty of masochists who just flat dig pain, period. I can't cite any anvil instances but I could regale you with almost comparable ones.
Pain is interesting.
For some people it is intersting to feel, for others it is interesting to administer.
You can do things with it, and I'm not talking about human destruction nor about coercion. You can do things with pain and a human body as you can do things with canvas and paint. As you can do with a musical instrument and your fingers or your breath.
There are numerous other levels at which pain and suffering can be appreciated before we come to that lovely paradox of the "not really what you'd usually call masochistic" person enduring pain not qua pain but qua an elegant and unmistakeable instance of submission.
As for: "Conversely, I would worry about a Sadist who simply got pleasure from creating suffering." This just boggles my mind at first but then I think I see how it all shakes out for you. Lemme try to say it and you can tell me if this seems anywhere near right.
You haven't had occasion to meet anyone who was the plainest and simplest sort of anvil-dropping masochist, and you yourself are a masochist of the sort who gets his fulfillment from pain indirectly, as someone put it above.
This being the case it might be fair to guess that you also just haven't gotten to know yet any sadists who don't wrap their talk about enjoying the creation of suffering up in pretty talk about enjoying ancilliary events and the epi-phenomena, as it were, and dealing in actual pain only "for the growth of the masochist" or some such thing.
And I'll bet a lot of sadists who describe themselves that way are telling the truth as they see it. The truth as it is.
Me, I like to tap into life at all sorts of levels. I appreciate the complxities and parodoxes of kink. But before, during and after all that, I enjoy giving pain (to consenting adult partners.) I like to create suffering (in consenting adult partners.)
I just love the way a whole stratum of masochists start yelling: "Run away, run away, this sadist actually likes to hurt people," when they chance to encounter my view. They seem to say: " It is fine to hurt people and to enjoy hurting people to the point of orgasming all over your new garbadine trousers as long as, you--you know--you don't actually like ... you know, enjoy actually ... um, well ... hurting ... um ... people... which anyone can see is just sick or something."
In response to your stated concern--and you aren't the first--
I don't buy animals (or people) to hurt just to pass the time of day or get my rocks off. I do live in the country and raise--and kill--some of my own meat.
I killed and butchered my (and my girlfriend's) dinner last week. It wasn't a squicky business, it wasn't teary and sentimental because as I raised this animal from a day old I knew what I was doing. I knew this in a way that all human beings presumably once appreciated but which seems to have been whitewashed by slaughterhouses and supermarkets.
Anyway, aside from a very minor appreciation for a piece of work accomplished, I didn't take any pleasure in the event. In particular I didn't take pleasure in the animal's pain or destruction--though I sure enjoyed dinner.
And what if I had? The animal was going to die that afternoon either way.
But back to your issue.
Please tell. Does my appraisal of where you might be coming from hold any water at all or do you think I'm way off base?
|
RE: Is it the Pain or the Act of Submission??? - 
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread