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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 5:01:17 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
America subsidizes the growth of sugar in this country, more welfare from liberal states to republican welfare queens. This is also done to fuck over and destroy Cuba because sugar is one of their cash crops.

We deal with China, a nation that gunned down a city block full of its citizens and the DOD says is the primary threat America faces in the 21st century. Cuba, a tiny island nation and a threat only to Indian casinos, has faced economic warfare from the US for its entire existence.

Besides, as bad as Castro was, he wasn't as bad as the US installed and supported dictator Batista. Gee, anyone see a pattern between supporting brutal dictators and countries hating us and violently overthrowing out puppets?

No! Most of us avoid that learning the facts and comparing agendas when they don't fit ours dontcha know? M

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 5:02:06 PM

HarryVanWinkle

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Fidel is one of those thugs who make me wish there was a Hell, so he could burn in it.

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 5:05:10 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle
(Fast Reply)
Fidel is one of those thugs who make me wish there was a Hell, so he could burn in it.

You may be right, but hell would need to be pretty big to fit all the people with a hunger for power well beyond what they need, just so that they can subjugate others... As evil goes, Fidel is hardly at the top in my book. M

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 5:35:58 PM

MasterKalif

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wow....I cant believe some people say castro was better than Batista....Batista was a typical third wordlish dictator who was decadent....but Castro is much worse, he is a beast, a communist tyrant, who killed thousands of Cubans because they did not adhere to the communist cause....and unlike Batista, Castro has been in power for 47 years....

keeping things in perspective.

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 6:32:35 PM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

While driving to work today, listening to the news. I heard Bush said something to the effect if Castro dies..and I assume his brother as well. He cannot wait to get into Cuba to change it into a democracy.
What exactly does Bush know about democracy? Why throw ourselves on someone that does not want our help once more?

I really don't understand how someone can live within this country yet be so isolated to not even know what is going on in this country. So big deal Bush lives with security but so do many other people yet they still seem to know what is going on.

It occured to me that this might have been an assasination attempt.

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 6:37:29 PM

Theslavetrainer

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In the gut? There are more efficient ways to kill a man.

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 6:59:11 PM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Theslavetrainer

In the gut? There are more efficient ways to kill a man.

But this would be oh so subtle.. and slow..wouldn't it

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 7:51:20 PM

sub4hire

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Ever talk to anyone in Cuba? Most don't think it is as bad as we think. They can make something like 30 dollars a month or year...I don't quite recall and they are of the wealthy.
There is no inflation. Really no begging on the streets or homeless. At least not to the extent of this country.
Granted I am sure some of the people hate the country and Castro as well. Though just as many happen to love their country.

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 7:59:18 PM

FangsNfeet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressBG

well, not much I can say except that I hope and pray that he is dead already!

hopefully this is the begining of the end for a nightmare that's lasted 47 long years. My family migrated from Cuba to this country (USA) when he took over in 59... my biggest dream is that my elderly father is able to see the day that Cuba is free.

xoxo

So was life better in Cuba when the Mob ran it with there booze, hotels, and casinos but never bothered to share the wealth with any of the locals? It was the poverty of Cuba that put Castro in power. So ask yourself this "Who was the lessor of the two evils in 59?" Castro was the one who kicked the mob out while it's current leader at the time only took bribes from them.

If the poverty of cuba is truely upset again, there's no doubt that a new leader would emerge and over throw Castro. It was the poverished who had enough of being poor and being tossed aside to be kept out of the tourist eye that impowered him. If they don't like him, they'll have him run just like the last leader.

< Message edited by FangsNfeet -- 8/1/2006 8:04:39 PM >

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 9:49:27 PM

CrappyDom

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Those people Castro killed were terrorists and enemy combatants so it was okay. I mean we torture people in Cuba, why can't they?

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 9:53:29 PM

nerdyryan

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Am I the only one who, when they say he turned over power to his brother Raul, thinks of Raul's Wild Kingdom from the old Weird Al movie UHF where he licks a turtle and gets it to stick to the ceiling? Heh just wondering.

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 10:09:58 PM

MasterKalif

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I strongly disagree, wrong on all accounts....make no mistake Castro is a tyrant. The old dictator run by the mob was far better than this egocentric, genocidal communist who has been in power for 47 years....Batista was in power for less than 15. While both are bad, at least under Batista you could own property, leave the country without government permission, you could criticize more or less the government (unless it was too public), and do whatever you wanted. There was some freedom of speech.

Now Cubans can't leave their cities without government permission, they cant travel out of the country without permission, they cant gamble, they cant party, they cant do anything, recently they were allowed to go to Church again....there is no freedom of speech. On top of that Castro and his "little brother" Raul killed thousands of people in the early days, thousands have left the island in desperation, the country is as poor as ever....the only reason they were a little better was when the Soviet Union was giving them about 1 million dollars a day in aid...that way they could keep many social programs running...thus that bought people's complacency, particularly those of the poor. Does this benefit them in the long run? no. Castro's island is hell....Cubans are proud to be Cubans, but to be patriotic you dont have to kiss the boots of your government.

nuff said

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 10:17:17 PM

CrappyDom

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Cuba isn't poor because of Castro's policies but America's.

And why do we seek to destroy Cuba but seek to enrich and empower China?

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 10:22:33 PM

stef

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Because we love Chinese food and Jet Li movies?

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 10:24:44 PM

MasterKalif

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Cuba isn't poor because of Castro's policies but America's.

And why do we seek to destroy Cuba but seek to enrich and empower China?

well Cuba is poor because of a poorly run centrally planned economy....if a communist economy was succesful North Korea, Vietnam and the old Soviet Union would be players in the world economy and not the economic backwaters that they actually are....

I dont think the US should "destroy" Cuba, but do everything possible to get rid of Castro by supporting the local opposition, not like it was done in Iraq (through a war). Castro is destroying Cuba, the US embargo is useless as it only gives Castro the argument that the island is doing badly because of the embargo, when the embargo is just another tiny factor contributing to the poverty of the island. Central planned economies never work.

I dont think the US seeks to actively promote China or enrich it, I think China has embraced capitalism (hence why it is succesful and not an economic backwater like the other communist nations), and the US is trying to contend with it as it will become a super power in the future....I dont think the US is in favor of China as China violated systematically copyright laws, and turns a blind eye to piracy (as in copying dvd's, cars, etc)...however, some in the business community in the US love China for allowing foreign investment.

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RE: Castro - 8/1/2006 11:57:41 PM

Kedikat

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I just wish that Castro had the chance to try the socialist experiment without the outside meddling and embargoes etc...
I wonder how much better it might have gone? Amazing how long it has lasted in the face of these things. Too bad about the timing, as South Americans are banding together more to make a go of it. Cuba being an interesting part of it in providing physicians and education facilities in return for needed commodities.

I don't think anyone can fairly judge how well Castro did or did not do, as Cuba was under enormous pressure from without.

The same is sadly true for any large group or country that attempts to try a lifestyle, society, economy, outside the norm ( Norm being a fairly narrow western capitalist thing )

I shudder to think of the Disney world Cuba that might ensue after his demise. It will be open season for the big BIG C capitalists in a small virgin territory.

< Message edited by Kedikat -- 8/1/2006 11:59:48 PM >

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 12:01:57 AM

Kedikat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Cuba isn't poor because of Castro's policies but America's.

And why do we seek to destroy Cuba but seek to enrich and empower China?

well Cuba is poor because of a poorly run centrally planned economy....if a communist economy was succesful North Korea, Vietnam and the old Soviet Union would be players in the world economy and not the economic backwaters that they actually are....

I dont think the US should "destroy" Cuba, but do everything possible to get rid of Castro by supporting the local opposition, not like it was done in Iraq (through a war). Castro is destroying Cuba, the US embargo is useless as it only gives Castro the argument that the island is doing badly because of the embargo, when the embargo is just another tiny factor contributing to the poverty of the island. Central planned economies never work.

I dont think the US seeks to actively promote China or enrich it, I think China has embraced capitalism (hence why it is succesful and not an economic backwater like the other communist nations), and the US is trying to contend with it as it will become a super power in the future....I dont think the US is in favor of China as China violated systematically copyright laws, and turns a blind eye to piracy (as in copying dvd's, cars, etc)...however, some in the business community in the US love China for allowing foreign investment.

These economies are always under pressure from capitalist economies that want them crushed. Cuba being a prime example. They carry on quite long down a hard road against those odds and against those powers. They seldom if ever get the chance to show how they could work if left alone.

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 1:19:44 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

I just wish that Castro had the chance to try the socialist experiment without the outside meddling and embargoes etc...
I wonder how much better it might have gone? Amazing how long it has lasted in the face of these things. Too bad about the timing, as South Americans are banding together more to make a go of it. Cuba being an interesting part of it in providing physicians and education facilities in return for needed commodities.

I have to agree with you here. Let's be honest, the USA is against Castro because he kicked out the US puppet and this is why there has been a 47 year embargo and why Cuba is poor, not because the economy was run badly but the US decided it had to be strangled at birth. The US can't allow an economic system to work and prove there are better ways to live than Capitalism. Also rich Cubans are not beyond giving Senator's backhanders, oops!...I mean lobbying for their support.

With no resources Cubans have a life expectancy that rivals the first world not the third. The average life expectancy is as long as the US. It has better infant survival rates than the US. In all the Americas, only Canada can better Cuba's stats, so much for US healthcare. 71 Americans, mainly from poor ethnic minorities study medicine in Cuba because they can't afford to study in America and they study in a health education that focuses on prevention rather than expensive cure that bolsters the profits of the insurance companies and hope to take this type of healthcare back to the US ghettos where it is needed by the poor. Many Cubans who don't have rich connections abroad know that if capitalism returned they wouldn't have free healhcare and education. The average Cuban having a better education than the average American too. All that on no money because its bitter giant neighbour has been nursing a grudge for nearly fifty years. It doesn't put the US in a nice light.

As for executions, the US beats Cuba in this too. I can't find any independent sources for mass executions, just US and expat Cuban sources. Maybe people who condemn Cuba, ought to go there and speak to people who live there. They are open and are not scared to criticize Castro and are aware that their poverty is down to the US embargo. With increased cooperation with South American countries things will improve, if the US can just stop its interference for once.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/2/2006 1:22:56 AM >

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 1:59:37 AM

Kedikat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressBG

ok, obviously we have a completely different view point. I see Fidel Castro as a monster, making Hitler look like a baby in diapers - I don't see what your point is about the rich vs the poor.... but whatever. I just hope that son of a bitch burns in hell. : )

That is so far beyond the situation. Hitler? There is absolutely no comparison in any way. You have a passionate position in this. But that comment makes your position seem ridiculous.
I'd prefer if you made some factual based references to back it up. The US has openly and after the fact openly worked to make Cuba miserable. Castro has tried to make it work as best as possible in spite of it.
I think you can point a fair amount of your anger towards the US policies as well, when it comes to any peoples suffering in Cuba.

This sort of thing happens in many countries. another country meddles and attacks another in various ways, making mizery all round. The final winner writes the history of the " struggle ". The country under attack and it's leaders cannot do their best while trying to prevent the other country's meddling and attacks. It makes the government, leaders, and ideals look bad. If left alone to give all the best efforts to their ideas, it might be great.

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 2:08:44 AM

Estring

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Once again, just like a broken record. Let's blame the US instead of who is really to blame. It's funny, but if it is our fault for the poor condition of Cuba's people, why is it that Castro is a multimilloinare? Is it possible that he has been ripping his own people off just as Yassar Arrafat did to the Palestinians? No of course not. It is the fault of the US.

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