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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 2:10:27 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Once again, just like a broken record. Let's blame the US instead of who is really to blame. It's funny, but if it is our fault for the poor condition of Cuba's people, why is it that Castro is a multimilloinare? Is it possible that he has been ripping his own people off just as Yassar Arrafat did to the Palestinians? No of course not. It is the fault of the US.


The US sanctions foreign companies who want to do business with Cuba. A policy that is widely resented by the rest of the world and yet another reason for the USA's bad image in the world.

Yes, let's blame the reason for Cuba's poor economy. THE USA.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 8/2/2006 2:11:35 AM >

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 3:37:33 AM   
Level


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A link to a site on the history of Cuba; it looks non-partisan and well done.

http://www.historyofcuba.com/cuba.htm

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 4:49:37 AM   
meatcleaver


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Interesting site which appears to make an attempt at objectivity. I never counted thousands of executions. Just under 800 in the first year or so, many being terrorist/freedomfighters or Batista's henchmen.

The US appears to have pushed Cuba towards the communist block and never made any real attempt to have a working relationship with Cuba. Many of the nationalisations were only after America refused cooperation and oil companies refused to refine Russian oil but refused Cuba American oil. Castro doesn't seem to come out at all bad from the historical view of this site.

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 6:38:35 AM   
MistressBG


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Being a cuban-american, having been to Cuba several times, not on vacation or as a tourist but visting my family and experiencing first hand what life is like for the people of Cuba, it's quite interesting to read here what some of you assume to be true.

On my last visit to Cuba I had such a terrible experience, to understate it, that I vowed never to step foot on that land until Castro was long gone. My mother and I went to visit my dying grandfather, my uncles, aunts, and cousins. We had a nice time over all because we were there with our loved ones, despite the heat, the lack of food, water, electricity, we managed to get through those two weeks in one piece. We took a short trip to these mountains and as I stood on top of the mountain I shot some home video for my dad back home which grew up in that area....I went about the rest of my trip and on the way back home to the US we were stopped at customs in the airport of havana... they took posession of my video camera and locked us in this very small room...needless to say my mother and I were scared to death...anyhow, we were later released, still not knowing what we had done wrong, we were able to run after the plane and come home(they never returned our camera or videos to us, btw). Once here we began to find out what had happened....turns out they accused my mother and I of being in the CIA....yes, my mother, a middled age Cuban woman, and me, a teenager at the time....the video I shot at that mountain top just so happened to over look "La Cierra Maestra" where Fidel fought his revolution in 58 - they accused us of trying to find strategic areas and accused us of spying....so of course they did the logical thing and destroyed my family's life by throwing them all out of their crappy jobs, taking away their little possessions, taking away their bikes (which = cars) one of my uncles was sentenced to a "trial" and sent to prison for 5 years - he later died in the prison very mysteriously...all of this over a very simple and innocent home movie taken by a teenager at a mountain top.

During our visit there I saw many things which stuck in my mind and made me appreciate the US more than I ever did before! We (my mom and I) would go to the tourist hotels (and everything there is for tourist, the people that live in Cuba are considered less than a rat...heck we have much more consideration for rats in this country than they do for the people of Cuba!) my family would have to wait outside because they were not allowed in, this was the same every where we went.

It's hard to describe such poverty and such oppression....the worst part for me was the lack of freedom and just the lack of human rights and justice...it's so basic! Cuba was never a 3rd world country, Cuba was a beautiful Island rich in many things, people never wanted to leave Cuba, hell not even those that weren't from Cuba wanted to leave .... many Americans loved travelling to Cuba, many even lived there... Batista was no doubt a jack ass, I won't argue that, but there is absolutely no comparison between the two.

My mother's uncle was very wealthy during Batista, he owned a chain of restaurants. That man worked very hard, he started with a small diner, worked his way up to a very succesful restaurant and became so succesful that he was able to open up a chain of them throughout Cuba, he owned a total of 17 homes throughout the Island ... Once Fidel took over, the gov't seized his business, took his homes and robbed him of everything that my moms uncle had worked so hard for all of his life. Imagine that happening here? Imagine a dictator taking over, literally kicking you out of your home, taking over the business you worked so hard for, taking your car, your bank account.... and add to that you can't even complain because if you do you will get shot, tortured, etc... 

Someone here said there is no poverty or homeless in Cuba...that's the most absurd thing I have read here so far...well, one of the most absurd...there are only two classes in Cuba, 1.) Fidel and those very close to him 2.) the rest of the population....Unfortunately, the rest of the population are beyond poverty, they have no homes, business, cars, etc...because the homes they do have belong to the Fidel, not them.

Blessed day ~  

< Message edited by MistressBG -- 8/2/2006 6:40:42 AM >

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 6:52:34 AM   
meatcleaver


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Revolutions don't happen because everything is honky-dory. Cuba would have less poverty if the exiles lobbied the USA to engage positively with the Castro regime rather than oppose it. Who knows, it might even have been democratic by now if they did. Constructive engagement gets far more results through cooperation than demonizing ones enemies all the time. We can see the same negative results of demonization in the middle east. It's stupid and futile. Yet, we see cooperation working in Vietnam. It's just a pity the Whitehouse is devoid of statemen at the moment and is populated by small bitter minds.

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 7:08:54 AM   
CrappyDom


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The ignorance exposed by this thread is frightening.

Before you blame the poverty of Cuba on anyone but yourself, google "sugar cuba subsidy"...

While you are at it, google "sugar subsidy florida republican"

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RE: Castro - 8/2/2006 7:18:29 AM   
meatcleaver


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Hmm Are you trying to say American policy is based on money and not principle?

It is frightening that so much information is only a google away but people just refuse to accept anything but what they hear on Fox News and CNN.

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RE: Castro - 8/3/2006 10:46:35 AM   
meatcleaver


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There have been 638 attempts on Castro's life. Perhaps someone is trying to tell him something. LOL

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,,1835930,00.html

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RE: Castro - 8/3/2006 10:52:24 AM   
babygirl005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Once again, just like a broken record. Let's blame the US instead of who is really to blame. It's funny, but if it is our fault for the poor condition of Cuba's people, why is it that Castro is a multimilloinare? Is it possible that he has been ripping his own people off just as Yassar Arrafat did to the Palestinians? No of course not. It is the fault of the US.


The US sanctions foreign companies who want to do business with Cuba. A policy that is widely resented by the rest of the world and yet another reason for the USA's bad image in the world.

Yes, let's blame the reason for Cuba's poor economy. THE USA.



And how did Castro become a multimillionaire? You would think some of that money would have gone to the people of Cuba. But of course that isn't how a dictator does things. Just ask Yassar Arafat's widow as she lives in luxury off the millions her husband stole from "his" people.
Estring

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RE: Castro - 8/3/2006 10:58:11 AM   
meatcleaver


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Who has seen his bank account, the CIA I suppose? Now if they can't actually kill him then character assassination will do I guess. What does he do with all this money, buy luxury appartments in Paris or does he holiday in Florida incognito?

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RE: Castro - 8/3/2006 10:59:48 AM   
mnottertail


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He bought the Senators ballclub off of GWBush ....something they have in common.

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RE: Castro - 8/3/2006 9:10:08 PM   
MasterKalif


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I am shocked by some Castro apologists here....I mean if we talk about "socialist experiment" like I said before, cuba is just sadly one of many "experiments" gone wrong thanks to that monster....state communism and central planned economies do not work. Vietnam, North Korea, and many others have a socialist experiment going....how are they doing? badly...very poor. How is this the fault of other countries other than those communist tyrants in power in those countries?
Take my country, Chile....we had a disastrous "socialist experiment" that was a disaster, from 1970-1973. In this short three year period, Dr. Allende, our socialist president who decided to try out this experiment, elected democratically and ratified by congress (they simply believed in his word that he would leave the democratic institutions intact which he did not). His regime was characterized for complete diregard of the constitution, harassment of opposition parties (no dictatorships here before his time), harassment and attempts to shut down opposition press, Fidel being a star guest in 1972 to the country, and whereby urban guerrillas came into existence, which led to complete chaos and constant clashes between civilians for and against the government. Needless to say the CIA intervention was minor, attempting a coup that failed sometime in early 1973, and by september 11 (strange coincidence in dates) of 1973 a military junta led by General Pinochet took over, beginning a 17 year dictatorship. Chile transition to democracy thanks to that same dictator who at least had the decency to step down....much unlike his nemesis Castro.

The Soviet Union also had its experiment with socialism, and we all know what happened in 1991.... so these socialist experiments don't work, either because it brings out strong LOCAL opposition as well as brining disaster to their local economies, not because of what the US does or does not do.

MisstressBG, I am sorry to have read your account, and I hope it opens up many people's eyes who idealize these ridicolous murderous regimes while sitting comfortably in their homes in the USA. I ask those who support Castro, if he is so wonderful and hs brand of communism is so swell....why dont you guys go live on the island just for a month and see how is life there compared to life in the US?

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RE: Castro - 8/3/2006 10:01:57 PM   
Alumbrado


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Anyone really interested in Googling the politics of sugar should research 'Archer Daniels Midland', and follow the money...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/president/players/andreas.html




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RE: Castro - 8/5/2006 6:30:02 AM   
Manawyddan


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I won't cry crocodile tears for them man, and would love to see him replaced by a home-grown democratically elected leader.

On the other hand, given the quality of the Latin American governments that the US tends to consider its allies, I would rather have Castro back than a US-installed puppet.

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RE: Castro - 8/5/2006 7:04:44 AM   
FangsNfeet


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Castro freeing Cuba from Batista and the Mob only to controll it for himself is no big supprise. After all, wouldn't you want to keep all the cigars for yourself?

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RE: Castro - 8/5/2006 7:30:46 AM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressBG

Of course they blame the US, don't you know that they absolutely despise the US and ALL americans? Don't you know that they have been fed tons and tons of extreme anti-american propaganda for the past 47 years?  Who else are they going to blame? themselves? I think not.


'splain this to me Lucy..

I'm watching the news and I am totally confused.

They hate Castro
The won't overthrow him even if he is disabled for the time being
They Bitch about America
Then they swim to our shores.
Sit in Miami and bitch some more.

What's wrong with this picture?

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 8/5/2006 7:52:58 AM >


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I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Castro - 8/5/2006 2:47:03 PM   
CrappyDom


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China is a communist country...

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RE: Castro - 8/5/2006 2:53:51 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

China is a communist country...


That had shit for an economy until they began letting some free-markets tactics to take hold.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Castro - 8/5/2006 7:19:45 PM   
CrappyDom


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Let me dumb this down a bit.

China is a brutal totalitarian communist regime, one the defense department lists as America's greatest threat in the 21st century.  America is busy mortgaging our houses in order to buy their crap from Walmart so they can use the proceeds to build a bigger and better army with which to fight us.  This is all good.

Cuba, a tiny country that is no threat to us, one that despite crippling sanctions and US destruction of the world market for its primary export, is evil and bad.  Despite all that, has managed to have a universal health care system more advanced than the US, a lower infant mortality rate, and a similar life expectancy.

When someone does as much or more than I do, all while spending less, I tend to pay attention and want to see if I can learn anything.  Others want to jam their fingers in their ear and say "neah neah I can't hear you".  Myself, I would throw our muscle behind strangling China and spend our money in Cuba.

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RE: Castro - 8/5/2006 7:21:05 PM   
Daddy4UdderSlut


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The brutal elimination of potential troublemakers was Castro's work, but the impoverishment of the nation was largely *our* work.  We have had a very effective trade embargo on Cuba for about 45 years.  Before we established that embargo (in 1958), the US accounted for 67% of Cuba's exports and 70% of its imports.  What do you think that 45 years of deprivation of 2/3 of the flow of money and goods can do to a country?  You can see the effects there, no problem.  A very stupid and callous policy - Castro actually hasn't gone anywhere, and we have held the entire nation in poverty for decades.

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