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Booze and Christianity - 8/2/2006 8:14:37 PM   
FangsNfeet


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Status: offline 		Jesus turned water into wine. Jesus and his diciples drank wine. Many beers, spirits, and whisky brands originated from monks and monistaries. So how did alcohol end up becoming an evil brew that should not be drank. What makes the self rightous feel the proabition and dry counties are nesecery when the bibles main point about alcohol/wine is not to over endulge in it?

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/2/2006 8:32:49 PM   
Dtesmoac


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Status: offline 		I heard about a new book that looks at many of the major advances in history thorught he development of drinks when I heard about it it sounded pretty good, one point was the Islamic scholars who discovered distilation which the Europeans then used to create strong spirits.

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/2/2006 9:56:05 PM   
MistressLorelei


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Status: offline 		Actually, health experts are supporting the idea of drinking regularly in small amounts to maximize health benefits (in the average healthy person), thus encouraging more alcohol consumption than possibly ever.  I think alcohol is thought to reach an "evil" status when people do over-indulge and are no longer in control of their actions, which can cause harm to themselves, as well as others.

I'm not religious, but wine seems so much apart of religion, that it seems sacrilegious not to drink.
I enjoy a nice glass of wine a few times a week; perhaps I am more religious than I realize.


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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/2/2006 10:04:11 PM   
WhiplashGirlChld


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Status: offline 		At one point in time, spirits were one of the only safe ways to get fluids.  Many Christians are perfectly accepting of social drinking, and several wines, ales, beers and liqueurs are STILL made in monasteries.  What you see is the backlash against the negative effects of indulgence, and it is not unique to Christians.  Just as you don't like to see ALL alcohol consumption characterized as abuse, not ALL Christians are incapable of seeing the difference between appropriate adult enjoyment of spirits and dangerous abuse.

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/2/2006 11:37:49 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		I remember hearing that Martin Luther actually died a good Catholic. He questioned, he did not disobey. the fact that he complied was becuse of what he thought was right.

I see Cristianity that way. Most of the Christians I know are good people. Some of them were not always good people though. I see redemption misused. I will not accept it, but then who am I hurting ?

OK, I have this opinion as to the subject of Christ and alcohol. Christ is reported to actually drink and have a good time. Why shouldn't He ? Thing is, we come to a snag when it comes to turning water into wine.

I think the transformation came from the minds of the "drinkers". I think He convinced them it was wine and they started acting drunk, and actually felt drunk. I derive this from several real life observations. Ever drink or get high ? Ever notice how sometimes it hits you like a ton of bricks but then other times you can knock them down all night ?

Let's face it, there is no need to change the formaula of the water. A Man as charismatic and compelling as Christ, and one you believed to be your Saviour in the afterlife would be heeded. If He said the water is wine, godammit it's wine. Come on, maybe it's been dry and you found water, who knows. He could have people in the crowd "Wow, a nice tart white", the next "no, it's a sweet red", and the next "Wow, this is the sweet cherry wine they're going to write a song about in 2,058 years".

Of course I am not saying this is true, but it is posssible. Many things are possible, including a translation that was JUDGED by man to be incorrect, that psilosibin (sp) was involved. Magic mushrooms. That translator was fired promptly without review.

Also, what about when He cleared the Temple of the moneychangers ? Let's give that a moments thought, just how many people did He throw out of the place ? There were enough Pharises there to take him, or were there ? Or did they all back down ?

I do enjoy reading about Christ's life. Especially the less well known things. This theory about Mary Magdoline, I don't care. You think a fine young strapping carpenter like that isn't going to have some sex somewhere along the line ?

No matter how you view Christ, when he was human, why would he be anything other than human ? Drink some wine, eat some shrooms and say somehing profound. Keep doing it. I am not saying He was not divine even if he was a junkie alcoholic, these standards do not apply. We can't apply our standards.

Booze is as it always was. I think it is good. It allows people to get less inhibited, and I don't even mean sexually. Sometimes confidences are made and friendships strengthen. Then some times marriages, whether they are made in heaven or hell is up to each consumer.

The problem comes with the excessive use of,,,,,,,,,,,anything.

Actually wine has been shown to have beneficial nutrients now. Go figure.

T

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/2/2006 11:59:31 PM   
Kedikat


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Status: offline 		It isn't the booze, it's what it unleashes in some people. Reality sucks.

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 12:05:50 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Kedi, agreed totally. Some people drink terribly, and I don't mean number of drinks, I mean they wreck the thing. They don't have a good time.

T

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 12:20:49 AM   
Estring


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Jesus turned water into wine. Jesus and his diciples drank wine. Many beers, spirits, and whisky brands originated from monks and monistaries. So how did alcohol end up becoming an evil brew that should not be drank. What makes the self rightous feel the proabition and dry counties are nesecery when the bibles main point about alcohol/wine is not to over endulge in it?


They learned from the self righteous on the left who want to ban smoking.

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 8:08:03 AM   
SirKenin


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Status: offline 		Jesus actually did not turn water into the type of wine we know and enjoy today.  That is a bit of a misconception.

Nonetheless, I am a believer of the school of thought of "everything in moderation and nothing in excess".  I believe it is the excess that God frowns upon.

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 8:13:04 AM   
MistressLorelei


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Jesus actually did not turn water into the type of wine we know and enjoy today.  That is a bit of a misconception.

Nonetheless, I am a believer of the school of thought of "everything in moderation and nothing in excess".  I believe it is the excess that God frowns upon.


War in excess, often over religion, seems to be ok in God's book though. 

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 8/3/2006 8:22:37 AM >

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 10:01:31 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Jesus turned water into wine. Jesus and his diciples drank wine. Many beers, spirits, and whisky brands originated from monks and monistaries. So how did alcohol end up becoming an evil brew that should not be drank. What makes the self rightous feel the proabition and dry counties are nesecery when the bibles main point about alcohol/wine is not to over endulge in it?


That depends on which type of Christianity you are referring to.  Take the Irish Catholic majority of my family  for example.  I'm pretty sure there's nothing holier than beer and whiskey to them.  It's nearly become a sacred ritual.  Or you can take the Southern Baptists on the other side of the family (please... take them... soon).  They give alcoholics a bad name.

So I suppose it just depends on where you're looking.  I really prefer the Buddhist concept of, "Everything in moderation."  Especially when you practice moderation in moderation.

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 10:22:12 AM   
LotusSong


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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 12:12:40 PM   
darkinshadows


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Jesus turned water into wine. Jesus and his diciples drank wine. Many beers, spirits, and whisky brands originated from monks and monistaries. So how did alcohol end up becoming an evil brew that should not be drank. What makes the self rightous feel the proabition and dry counties are nesecery when the bibles main point about alcohol/wine is not to over endulge in it?

Not really sure what your post is trying to do or prove.  The only thing it shows is how little you know about christianity really.
 
Peace and Rapture


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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 12:54:58 PM   
stef


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That shouldn't come as a surprise.  Nearly every time he posts it shows how little he knows about something.
 
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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 1:11:33 PM   
raiken


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Status: offline 		Tips her glass of organic sulfite free wine...and agrees with kedikat.

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 1:49:42 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
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Status: offline 		Being raised by Assembly of God and Baptist, I was taught that alcohol was evil and needed to tossed aside like a poison. It was a drink made for evil men. Any time I brought up wine from the bible, I was told that type of wine wasn't the same wine we have today. So how did they get drunk off of it then? Anyhow, alcohol was so evil, that many people banned together to ensure the chocolate factories did a process to there chocolate to take out the fermintation. For some reason, alcohol was considered such an evil drink that the US and Canada had proabition laws.

Even today, we have relgious fanatics burning down bars, clubs, and stores which sell alcohol. Why are so many people using the Bible and God as there reason to rid alcohol from the earth when there's no comandment from God that forbids to drink it? 

If a person does not like alcohol then they shouldn't drink it but bringing God in as a reason does not make sense when the bible never marks alcohol as being evil except when endulged.    



< Message edited by FangsNfeet -- 8/3/2006 1:50:39 PM >

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 1:49:51 PM   
MmakeMme


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Status: offline 		My father was a minister and alcohol was always served when my parents entertained (which was frequently). Personally, I love drinking. Why, if it weren't for alcohol, I wouldn't have my kids ............ or such a terrific attorney ...................

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 2:00:27 PM   
SirKenin


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Status: offline 		Fangs, look.  The Assembly of God Baptists are fundamentalist right wingers.  That is just the way it is.

I hate to say it, though, but stef and dark are right.  You do not know what you are talking about.  Neither does the Assembly of God Baptists.

The Bible does not forbid the drinking of wine.  Nowhere in the Bible does it teach you that you can not drink.  Perhaps they twist Proverbs 23:29-35 out of shape to fit their own needs.  In Ephesians 5:18 is our biggest clue.  It tells us "do not get DRUNK on wine".  It does not say "do not DRINK it".

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 2:00:46 PM   
FangsNfeet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

That shouldn't come as a surprise.  Nearly every time he posts it shows how little he knows about something.
 
~stef



Ouch, did someone forget to take there hormone pill this morning?

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RE: Booze and Christianity - 8/3/2006 2:07:31 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
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From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Being raised by Assembly of God and Baptist, I was taught that alcohol was evil and needed to tossed aside like a poison. It was a drink made for evil men. Any time I brought up wine from the bible, I was told that type of wine wasn't the same wine we have today. So how did they get drunk off of it then? Anyhow, alcohol was so evil, that many people banned together to ensure the chocolate factories did a process to there chocolate to take out the fermintation. For some reason, alcohol was considered such an evil drink that the US and Canada had proabition laws.


Well, then you have answered your own questions.  It was how you were raised.  Doesn't make it right or true.  As you are seeing from the answers here, there are many Christians who see nothing wrong with enjoying wine and other acoholic beverages.  People often object to the irresponsible use of spirits, but I am sure you are not going to get rid of that, so that means the only answer is to throw out the baby with the bathwater?  Go back to your family or the churches of your upbringing and ask them the vaidate their stance. Obviously, we are not agreeing with this attitude. 

quote:

Even today, we have relgious fanatics burning down bars, clubs, and stores which sell alcohol. Why are so many people using the Bible and God as there reason to rid alcohol from the earth when there's no comandment from God that forbids to drink it? 


Please cite for Me where this is happening, how often, in what parts of the country.  I am sure it happens occasionally, but is this something rampant that I missed?

quote:

If a person does not like alcohol then they shouldn't drink it but bringing God in as a reason does not make sense when the bible never marks alcohol as being evil except when endulged.    


Agreed.  So your point is?

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