What a slave needs.

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

What a slave needs.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> What a slave needs.

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 5:42:40 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I found this beautifully written piece while i was looking for something else and thought i would share. It was written by a slave. I really love the way this man explained slave needs and the only thing i feel he omitted was love.

What a Slave Needs
by slave david stein

<deleted>

[Mod Note: This is a copyrighted work that the author has asked not be reproduced anywhere without his permission which is one of the reasons pasting other people's work here in their entirety is not allowed. Please read the work on the author's website.]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 8/3/2006 6:31:42 AM >

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

Post #: 1

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 5:55:01 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

So glad to see people here discovering david stein's writtings.

BTW want another good resource Google "BDSM Bob Harris", more writtings from one of David Stein's contemporaries as a slave and a leatherman.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 2

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 6:07:26 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Thank you for that info, i will go check him out.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 3

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 6:11:18 AM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

Im sorry, I found this piece to be an overplayed rote read and actually quite typical. Nothing remarkable here, not to me anyway.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 4

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 6:12:07 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

It is a wery nice text and i think it is easy to understand and explain things wery nicely.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 5

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 6:30:54 AM

breathless1

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/1/2006
Status: offline

A nicely written piece by david stein. Thank you for sharing it here.

breathless one

_____________________________

the truth is in the eyes.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 6

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:00:24 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

Overall, not a bad assembly of thoughts. I did at times find this one's writing style to be a little confusing, but nonetheless...

quote:

David Stein

Ideally, what slaves need [...] is clear direction, firm goals, consistent rules, unambiguous orders. And it takes a Master with great presence of mind, intelligence, self-control, and self-understanding to provide that kind of environment.

If it were easy to be a slave, if anyone could do it, what would be the point? If there were no sacrifice involved, if it required nothing "above and beyond" ordinary life as a bottom- oriented leatherman or leatherdyke, why bother?

If He (the Master) cannot or will not provide discipline, He has no business owning a slave, just as a parent who will not provide it for a child is unfit for that role.

I wholly agree with these points.

quote:

David Stein

The Master must provide a continual challenge as well as an environment in which the slave's discipline and dedication are continually honed.

Nonetheless, a slave needs to feel, overall, that he is fulfilling his potential for service, or he will not remain content in his slavery for long.

a Master who neglects or wastes a slave's talents is worse than a fool; it is a form of abuse as serious as physical harm or neglect.

These are points I feel skirt very close to another trend of thinking I have come to loath. While I trust I understand the spirit in which these lines were written, the above can be taken competely out of context and used to support "the gift serves the giver" philosophy to a fault.

< Message edited by amayos -- 8/3/2006 7:24:58 AM >

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 7

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:06:56 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

The latter would seem to support the Master as being not more than a tool of the slave, yes.

I would rather have this as an option, than an expectation.

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 8

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:15:21 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

I would rather have this as an option, than an expectation.

Key word here: expectation. When such things are expected by the slave, how could the slave ever be grateful? Such behavior is not owed to the slave, and when given, gives the slave the opportunity to show sincere gratitude.

While the words of David Stein make a good point, I would say it is not that a Master must do such things, but he may be wise to develop his property to the best possible potential, in order to reap the benefit of investment in her.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 9

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:25:57 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

It's best that the slave not assume any rights or perogatives beyond those which were negotiated at the outset. A sense of complacency kills the drive to excel.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 10

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:31:39 AM

breathless1

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

It's best that the slave not assume any rights or perogatives beyond those which were negotiated at the outset. A sense of complacency kills the drive to excel.

Though it may be agreed at the onset that the slave have no expectations, expectations still linger. To serve her/his best, would it not stand to reason that it be the Owner who brings out the best within her/him?

breathless one

_____________________________

the truth is in the eyes.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 11

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:33:46 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: breathless1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

It's best that the slave not assume any rights or perogatives beyond those which were negotiated at the outset. A sense of complacency kills the drive to excel.

Though it may be agreed at the onset that the slave have no expectations, expectations still linger. To serve her/his best, would it not stand to reason that it be the Owner who brings out the best within her/him?

breathless one

The real expectation should be the realization of the slave that having thier needs facillitated is a privilege, rather than a right.

< Message edited by Homestead -- 8/3/2006 7:34:07 AM >

(in reply to breathless1)

Post #: 12

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:43:44 AM

spankmepink11

Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

David Stein

If it were easy to be a slave, if anyone could do it, what would be the point? If there were no sacrifice involved, if it required nothing "above and beyond" ordinary life as a bottom- oriented leatherman or leatherdyke, why bother?

While a i agree with portions of David Steins writings i've never bought into the idea that slaves/submissives are exalted above the "ordinary" simply by following their nature/desires. In my opinion sacrifice has nothing to do with it. If the slave does not derrive self satisfaction in their chosen role they would not assume that role to begin with.

< Message edited by spankmepink11 -- 8/3/2006 7:45:58 AM >

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 13

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:57:57 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

These are points I feel skirt very close to another trend of thinking I have come to loath. While I trust I understand the spirit in which these lines were written, the above can be taken competely out of context and used to support "the gift serves the giver" philosophy to a fault.

I think rather that irregardless of many dominants dislike for the truth an M/s relationship is actually an equal exchange. After all the dominant would not be a Master/Mistress without the slave nor would the submissive be a slave without the dominant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

The latter would seem to support the Master as being not more than a tool of the slave, yes.
I would rather have this as an option, than an expectation.

In every relationship vanilla or M/s there is an expectation of needs being met, perhaps it is simply the semantics that bother you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

It's best that the slave not assume any rights or perogatives beyond those which were negotiated at the outset. A sense of complacency kills the drive to excel.

I would think that the basic preconceived notion that the slave would serve the owner to the utmost and that the owner would do their utmost to ensure the growth of the slave would be a given.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

The real expectation should be the realization of the slave that having thier needs facillitated is a privilege, rather than a right.

The slave is having their needs met by being allowed to serve but a dominant who fails to encourage personal growth to attain a higher level of fulfillment will have a very frustrated slave eventually.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 14

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 7:59:18 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

quote:

ORIGINAL: breathless1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

It's best that the slave not assume any rights or perogatives beyond those which were negotiated at the outset. A sense of complacency kills the drive to excel.

Though it may be agreed at the onset that the slave have no expectations, expectations still linger. To serve her/his best, would it not stand to reason that it be the Owner who brings out the best within her/him?

breathless one

The real expectation should be the realization of the slave that having thier needs facillitated is a privilege, rather than a right.

I agree, and I agree that expectations don't need to linger. One can be taught to get rid of them (lol trust me on that one). By expectations, I don't mean things that the slave has been conditioned for - ie; If every day for 3 months Master calls at 7pm, I might be conditioned to be prepared for that call and come to "expect" it. However, on Day 1 of the fourth month if he doesn't call, I can only go about my evening, not fret, and know I will talk to him later at some point.

As for expecting him to fulfill my needs, he owes me nothing, and what he does give me is a gift, in my perspective. I wrote an essay awhile back on Entitlement. I'll have to go dig that up...

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 15

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 8:01:45 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

A master who has the realization of what drives a slave, uses that properly. But that should be from his own desire to do so.

But the slave putting performance pressure on a Master with unrealistic expectations will frustrate the drive of the Master's desire to Dominate.

Pedestals have a way of creating distance, rather than intimacy.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 16

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 8:05:48 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

quote:

ORIGINAL: breathless1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

It's best that the slave not assume any rights or perogatives beyond those which were negotiated at the outset. A sense of complacency kills the drive to excel.

Though it may be agreed at the onset that the slave have no expectations, expectations still linger. To serve her/his best, would it not stand to reason that it be the Owner who brings out the best within her/him?

breathless one

The real expectation should be the realization of the slave that having thier needs facillitated is a privilege, rather than a right.

I agree, and I agree that expectations don't need to linger. One can be taught to get rid of them (lol trust me on that one). By expectations, I don't mean things that the slave has been conditioned for - ie; If every day for 3 months Master calls at 7pm, I might be conditioned to be prepared for that call and come to "expect" it. However, on Day 1 of the fourth month if he doesn't call, I can only go about my evening, not fret, and know I will talk to him later at some point.

As for expecting him to fulfill my needs, he owes me nothing, and what he does give me is a gift, in my perspective. I wrote an essay awhile back on Entitlement. I'll have to go dig that up...

An overblown sense of entitlement kills a D/s relationship faster than just about anything else. Expect a thing and not recieve it, and it breeds resentment. Expect nothing beyond the maintanence factors agree to , and everything beyond that is a lovely surprise.

When you can flip the attitudes from expecting to accepting..You begin to see things from a perspective of abundance, rather than want.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 17

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 8:13:51 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
An overblown sense of entitlement kills a D/s relationship faster than just about anything else. Expect a thing and not recieve it, and it breeds resentment. Expect nothing beyond the maintanence factors agree to , and everything beyond that is a lovely surprise.

When you can flip the attitudes from expecting to accepting..You begin to see things from a perspective of abundance, rather than want.

Actually overblown or not, entitlement can create problems. I agree, when one does not expect, one becomes very grateful upon receiving. As for flipping that attutide - I can only emphatically agree. And the beauty of it is when a Master notices such a change in persepective. I have to admit noticing a change in my Master once this occured. He could move from "working with me" to "enjoying me."

It was not an easy thing for me to do, however. Thank God for his patience and confidence in me.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 18

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 8:14:49 AM

Donnalee

Posts: 339
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

Homestead said:

quote:

Pedestals have a way of creating distance, rather than intimacy.

How true! I've always thought along those lines, but never heard it put into words as well.

I think there can be plenty of structure and hierarchy without putting either slave or master on a pedestal.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 19

RE: What a slave needs. - 8/3/2006 8:24:56 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead
An overblown sense of entitlement kills a D/s relationship faster than just about anything else. Expect a thing and not recieve it, and it breeds resentment. Expect nothing beyond the maintanence factors agree to , and everything beyond that is a lovely surprise.

When you can flip the attitudes from expecting to accepting..You begin to see things from a perspective of abundance, rather than want.

Actually overblown or not, entitlement can create problems. I agree, when one does not expect, one becomes very grateful upon receiving. As for flipping that attutide - I can only emphatically agree. And the beauty of it is when a Master notices such a change in persepective. I have to admit noticing a change in my Master once this occured. He could move from "working with me" to "enjoying me."

It was not an easy thing for me to do, however. Thank God for his patience and confidence in me.

Having to hold on tight to the other end of a leash can be very tiring after a time. It will wear one down, and become more and more of a burden. This usually occurs in the intial stages of M/s with a new person, or one habituated from other relationships. Freedom from HOLDING the leash and being enslaved by irrational expectations from the bottom, frees up a great deal of the Master's energy and focus to continue moving forward.

I do find it sad that so many slaves do not realize this. That by clinging to purely vanilla "me first" concepts, they hamstring so much of what a Master might otherwise be able to offer them. The most heartwarming thing to happen, after much work and investment for a top, is to see this.

For a slave to finally be able to say "I can begin to see in myself what you saw in me. I am excited by the potential, and how you honor me with your vision. And I will travel with you joyfully, to help make that vision our reality."

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> What a slave needs.

Page: [1] 2 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109