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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 6:48:09 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		MistressSassy: I think my dad is thinking the same thing. When my mom died, he gave us all (myself and my two sisters, I have no brothers) some of what he said he was planning to leave us when they both died, but he said there was no reason to wait that long, because he thought it was just stupid, since we'd be too old to enjoy it then, maybe.

My sister is a good person, but she is the Executor of my parents' will, and can be pretty distant and aloof when it comes to sorting these things out, and I do kinda wonder sometimes how it's all going to go.

In the end, I think it will be fine (but agree with the sentiments of your post). I get along with both of my sisters really pretty well, and if worse comes to worse, I know I'd just walk away. It's just not worth the headaches and emotional turmoil, to me.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/3/2006 6:49:33 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MistressSassy66)
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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 6:48:55 PM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Susan,
Similiar situation with my Mother and my Father. We found out Dad had Parkinson's disease right before we moved to the east coast from Arizona. I was pretty upset that I would be 200 miles away and could not help with anything. My brother was still living here at the time so fortunately he was able to help. When my Dad got to where he could not get to the bathroom on his own we tried to get my Mother to put him in a nursing home as it was ruining her health to take care of him. Fortunately she listened and did put him in one. She was much better off and could visit him adn not have to worry so much about taking care of him. She would spend hours with him everyday until he died in January of 1992. She was very glad that we insisted on putting him in the nursing home as she does not know if she would have been able to survive the strain of taking care of him herself.

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 6:55:24 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		wild1cfl: That is a good idea. Very good. I think my dad is gonna be okay this time. The idea of him even being in a Home or staying in the hosptial now just blows me away, really (heck, 2 months ago, were climbing mountians in Europe together, and he still, at age 72 plays golf about twice a week).

He appears (except for the heart thing) to be healthy as a horse. I'd ask what he wanted if he got really reallly sick, and my dad is pretty giving that way, and I know if he required something like round the clock care, he would not protest or feel miffed if it came to being cared for at a home or soemthing. My sister and I even know where he'd want to go (it's got a good rep, we discussed it one time).  We'd all be there visiting constantly anyway, I am sure.

- Susan   

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 6:55:48 PM   
Midearthtrainer


Posts: 67
Joined: 10/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I haven't read anything about this at all, anywhere. And, the oldest female I've seen post on this site is 63, the oldest male, 70 something. I know I've heard that people "wind down" as far as ther sexual and, possibly (hope not too much), bdsm related desires are concerned - eventually.

Things change as one ages, so little things like kneeling at one's feet changes to sitting next to one another with head in lap. Play changes also as well as frequency of play; from big sessions to little sessions, letting the bruises heal being the determining factor. On the other hand, things get better as there are less conflicts and more intuitive things that happen.

Hopefully, by the time they are really old, they are happily in a caring D/s or M/s relationship, or at least have enough wherewithal to afford health and domestic care (I've heard Medicare won't cover hiring a Pro Domme or Pro Dom, or Pro submissive or slave, he).

Well, actually, yes they will, as they are not Pro xxx, but billed as therapists.(just be careful, lol)

I am sorry if this is a depressing question, but my father is a little bit sick right now (he will get better, probably, but is having heart palpitations, and doctors are still figuring out what this might mean) - and I started thinking about what happens to old people. Maybe this isn't the place to ask but - think about it:



Question: If you really cared about your Master (Mistress) or slave or submissive, you would take care of them if they were sick, right? Or at least help? You wouldn't toss them out the door because they were "too old"? Well, maybe some would.
Any comments (and accompanying justifications for whatever) welcome.
Sorry to be a wet blanket (if I am) but I do think this is rarely discussed, or maybe even contemplated (why would it be- nobody here is that old, I guess). Doesn't mean people can't think about it.

I would not hesitate to take care of that, which I had a relationship with.

Question: So - What's your plan, as far as D/s or M/s in your life goes, goes when you really start to age? Gonna have someone there who gives a darn about your welfare, even if you're a wrinkled up thing that can hardly walk anymore, or what? Or not? Gonna toss someone out the door on their butt because they've suddenly become "too old" and-or too much work to care for?

Hey, a walking cane reaches. Really, it is a commitment that I take seriously, when I say for the long term. Relationships evolve over time, just as you cannot do things just like you did when you were 18; but you have learned to adapt. It is the same here as love and devotion increase and service alters slightly with age.

Sorry if nobody's ever seen me like this. Perhaps the quality of my questions on this site is going downhill, but I would appreciate any comments.This isn't a joke (but am sure some will toy w/the question anyway, which is fine and unavoidable I suppose). Thanks.

Death sobers the best of us. As heather has said some of the people go out on a good note, some die alone/lonely. I have had to watch the ravages of cancer take hold of a few people and have witnessed their death, including my mother. A vibrant person who went from healthy to an 89 lb. skelton at her death.
So, yes, you have been pushed to do things right. Now you just need to find the right person to grow old together with, floggers and all.
- Susan

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 6:57:09 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Midearthtrainer: Thanks for the sweet note.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 6:59:13 PM   
BillsGalSusan


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline 		Fortunately, in Canada, the providing for part is not as difficult as it is in the US. In fact, in Alberta, where I live, any two people, regardless of gender or conjugal status can register a relationship where there is interdependency and the people function together financially and as a household unit. It makes possible to provide for the long term needs, make make medical decisions, and provide insurance for each other--in fact such registered partnerships have all of the rights of marriage, including things like financial support when the relationship ends. See: http://www.law-faqs.org/ab/inter.htm

I've seen changes in our relationship in terms of how we play over time, but not really much in the way of changes in how the D/s  dynamic operates. If we had been big time into some of the kneel before my Master sort of things, that might have been different.  I can't imagine that having to provide some degree of physical care for me, should that happen, would change that dynamic, or how Bill felt about his dominance or me about my submissiveness any more than what we experienced when things like pregnancy changed some of the details.

Another Susan


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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 7:10:01 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear SusanofO, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I am in my 50's and have taken care of both of my parents.  One passed away last September after coming home 4 hours prior from the hospital, dying peacefully in the favorite living-room chair.  Now, I take care of the remaining parent, which seems twice as hard as taking care of one. 
 
I've been at beds side watching Masters and slaves pass away but, as prepared as you think you are when it comes to a parent --you're not.
 
Having to choose between parents and slaves, most times the slaves abandon me and, they haven't even had to help me do my "daughterly" duty.  They were younger so--really can't fault them for wanting to still 'kick up their heels.'  It takes a unique slave to understand that at our ages of 50 or more, the "Greatest Generation" are dying 1000 a day.  Their finances would never be enough, with exceptions to provide care in their senior years.  Most were born before social security was started.  So, like those before them--always counted on their children to care for them when they were unable to care for themselves.
 
I still have a lot to offer but, I am not going to be as spry as I am today.  Being stressed as a care giver, doing all the affairs of theirs and mine also, I am busy.  But, I do have some time free.  I use that time to mentor others, do scenes and keep my skills up.
 
Perhaps there will be a slave out there and perhaps not.  I don't have any problems finding part time slaves, play/scene partners, etc.  But, they haven't manifested as 'the one.'
 
I agree having your affairs in order.  Also, to have a way of moving your kink wares quickly into a person's hands should anything happen.  Sometimes a dual keyed padlock in a public storage locker provides the answer, giving a key and or access to a list of individuals who will move the kink wares out of the discovery sites of unaware individuals.  Perhaps a locked box or something else will work.  Make sure there are instructions with the box (outside) or somewhere where relatives can find it and follow your directions.
 
Just remember--expect the unexpected.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 7:33:19 PM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline
Great question Susan and one I think about for sure.

Question: If you really cared about your Master (Mistress) or slave or submissive, you would take care of them if they were sick, right?

~My Dom is 23 years older then me. We have touched on this subject of course. The fact is that he is going to get old before I do and the chance that I will have to take care of him in some capacity is a real reality. Of course he doesn't much like that reality. He doesn't want to be a burden or an obligation to me. It's one of the reasons he rejects the idea of marrying me. *Fingers crossed he changes his mind someday*

I am completely in love and devoted to him. Heather stated it so beautifully about being there with her Daddy to the end and holding him and telling him what a great Daddy he was. My Dom is my Daddy and I feel the exact same way. I can't imagine losing him and I can't imagine not being with him until one of us dies. That is just the way it has to be.

Question: So - What's your plan, as far as D/s or M/s in your life goes, goes when you really start to age?

As far as our D/s plan. We plan to carry on for as long as we are able and willing. We have a running joke that he will be chasing me down in his Lark with hairbrush in hand.

Seriously, D/s is much more than play for us. It is a state of mind and I will always know who my Daddy is.


< Message edited by Littlepita -- 8/3/2006 7:34:03 PM >

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 7:41:02 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Well, If I had a Collared slave and we loved each other I'd have no problem marrying her.
Marriage (does) make doing legal and financial things much easier as you have legal status and can sign documents, orders etc.
So, in the case of a partner getting terminally ill it could be in your interest to consider marriage and to talk to a lawyer certainly.
I'm one of those people who has a Will and a Health Care Power of Attorney.
It states "No Extraordinary Measures" in medical matters, what they call "DNR" (do not resusitate) in medical terms.
Also my "mortal remains" are to be creamated and scattered at sea.
If you don't have all these documents and aren't married you don't have much say in anything that happens to your partner and "The State" can step in and decide what happens, what to do with assets etc. So it really is worth looking into on a legal basis .
Thankyou Susan for another great thread and something that everyone needs to think about.
As above I had to go through this with my mother but if neccessary I would do it again.

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 7:42:33 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO



"toss them out the door"

"toss someone out the door on their butt"


Geez. Has everyone forgotten what windows are for?


And all this death talk has this place feeling positively Irish.


I understand having one's first thought about growing old kinky. I have to wonder why it was accompanied here by this kind of implicit assumption that thing you'd need to worry about is your partner turning out to be a first class tosser.

The op started off nicely enough but then degenerated with those questions. Why so negative? Do vanilla relationships usually result in someone being thrown somewhere? Do you think kinky people are so horribly much worse than anybody in general, on average?

I enjoy the particular kinky things I do. I enjoy 'em just fine. But I inhabit the whole ball of wax in terms of its meanings; to me and to whom I am with.

As the years pass the activities will change. Consider your activities with your Dad. Not what they were twenty years ago I'll wager. Is he one iota less your dad, or you any less his daughter, because you can't do the things you used to do together? Is there any imaginable universe in which you are both conscious of one another in which you could not express your piety and love for him somehow? And him his feelings for you?

Unless you were each wracked with doubts you wouldn't even need to express them, in the end. You'd know, and he'd know and everything that "needed" to be expressed could ride along on a glance. But you would presumably want to express it and you would. It doesn't really matter how its expressed, does it, if it genuinely and sincerely IS.

I'm the elder in my primary relationship, by more than a little. The fact is though that at any moment either one of us could fall prey to some bodily failure. In fact, we both might. Tomorrow either one of us may be gone. As a widow you are last person who needs this pointed out but I strive to make myself aware of this as best I can.

I believe in her very deeply as a person. If we some day decide to make a permanent comittment I will believe in that with just as much fervor and calm as I believe in her. If anyone can forge in his imagination a picture of the one he loves throwing him away he has very good cause to move with caution. I don't think my imagination is weak. Still, I just can't form that picture of her.

The sages and the physicists agree that our sense of time as a given linear thing isn't to be trusted any more than our sense that the sun "comes up" in the morning. So don't worry about time.

There are some special people in my life, so special that I can say not that I will love them forever but that I already love them forever. It's done. Like a book already printed. Our time together is for the manifestation of that love, the reading of those pages--including the difficult and scary ones. I'm father to some of those people, son to others, and a friend or more than a friend to a select few more besides.

Today, Susan. you don't have a partner. One day you might, or you may die alone tonight or you may live alone through long decades.

So if you're spending the afternoon wondering about a person you might end up growing old with, for God's sake why not think about someone who cares about you? You may indeed have some of that morbid Irish blood which wants to look a little bit every day toward the end. Death is a given. Let the thoughts come and explore them as you will.

But cruel and willful abandonment is not a given. When those thoughts come:

toss them out the door

toss them out the door on their butt

toss them aside like an old sack of used tools

If you're busy imagining, imagine a fucking decent future for yourself while you're at it. It doesn't cost any more than this horror show you're facinating yourself with and some people believe that what you choose to imagine for yourself is not utterly unrelated to what you end up with.


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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 7:44:33 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

MistressSassy: I think my dad is thinking the same thing. When my mom died, he gave us all (myself and my two sisters, I have no brothers) some of what he said he was planning to leave us when they both died, but he said there was no reason to wait that long, because he thought it was just stupid, since we'd be too old to enjoy it then, maybe.

My sister is a good person, but she is the Executor of my parents' will, and can be pretty distant and aloof when it comes to sorting these things out, and I do kinda wonder sometimes how it's all going to go.

In the end, I think it will be fine (but agree with the sentiments of your post). I get along with both of my sisters really pretty well, and if worse comes to worse, I know I'd just walk away. It's just not worth the headaches and emotional turmoil, to me.

- Susan 



I agree with just walking away if it comes to that...For the most part I have already.
My Nina is the only blood family other than My two young dependents I have contact with. I dont want or need anything from the rest of them now and certainly wont later on.
bishop is an only child so no headaches there.


My sympathy goes out to you...Good luck with it all.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 8:13:41 PM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, If I had a Collared slave and we loved each other I'd have no problem marrying her.
Marriage (does) make doing legal and financial things much easier as you have legal status and can sign documents, orders etc.
So, in the case of a partner getting terminally ill it could be in your interest to consider marriage and to talk to a lawyer certainly.


In our case there are other reasons he doesn't want to make it legal. Namely that we have both come out of very long marriages where once married things went steadily down hilll. I hope to change his preception of that in time.

We do have an attorney and there is and will be things put into place to protect me and to make sure he is safe as well. He also has long term care insurance so that is something we don't have to worry about.

But, I agree that legally it would be a lot simpler to just marry me so that I know no one can keep me from him if something happens like a terminal illness.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 8:22:17 PM   
AnAtlantaDom


Posts: 98
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		Here's an example of what can happen.  Tomorrow I'm meeting a 63 year young submissive for a scene.  As long as you are reasonably fit there is no reason that a D/s or M/s relationship cannot be maintained.
 
Having said that I will also say, that at 59 years young, I'm not as physically capable as I was just 5 years ago.  That is a part of the life cycle of humans.  As is the fact that for the majority of us we begin the death process at about age 25-30.  It's just what happens to us.

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 9:10:31 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Question: If you really cared about your Master (Mistress) or slave or submissive, you would take care of them if they were sick, right? Or at least help? You wouldn't toss them out the door because they were "too old"? Well, maybe some would.
Any comments (and accompanying justifications for whatever) welcome.
Sorry to be a wet blanket (if I am) but I do think this is rarely discussed, or maybe even contemplated (why would it be- nobody here is that old, I guess). Doesn't mean people can't think about it.

Question: So - What's your plan, as far as D/s or M/s in your life goes, goes when you really start to age? Gonna have someone there who gives a darn about your welfare, even if you're a wrinkled up thing that can hardly walk anymore, or what? Or not? Gonna toss someone out the door on their butt because they've suddenly become "too old" and-or too much work to care for?

Sorry if nobody's ever seen me like this. Perhaps the quality of my questions on this site is going downhill, but I would appreciate any comments.This isn't a joke (but am sure some will toy w/the question anyway, which is fine and unavoidable I suppose). Thanks.

- Susan


Question 1:  I wouldnt toss a stranger out the door, nevermind a loved one especially if they were old and sick.  Hell, I wouldnt toss a stray cat out the door. I would care for anything that needed caring for if it was in my path, nevermind someone I had spent my life loving.  You wouldnt toss someone out the door either right?  And Im sure you wouldnt choose to surround yourself with someone else who would.

Question 2:  It never even entered my mind how I would deal with the physical limitations of wiitwd.  I guess the same as I would deal with any other physical limitations that come with aging.  Maybe get more creative and or more accepting that I cant do some of the things I used to do.  I'd be happy though just to live long enough for that to even become a concern.   Getting to the bathroom "in time" would probably be of more import to me than taking grandpa's leather across my ass, at that point. For all I know, I may die masterless.  Its not the end all and the be all.  Its not life itself, Susan.

Godspeed to your dad. : )

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 9:16:45 PM   
BillsGalSusan


Posts: 69
Joined: 7/18/2006
Status: offline 		There is a generation of dominants and submissives out there who partnered waaaay before there was the Internet or much in terms of an organized D/s, M/s or BDSM community.

I wonder if what we might call serial slavery would just be less common among that group, partly as an artifact of age itself, and in part because there was not necessarily an expectation that kinky folks changed partners over and over again as part of the process of finding themselves. Not that vanilla people of that age were all that monogamous, but monogamy does seem to have been more of a goal for people my parents' age.

Another Susan

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 9:46:31 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		When I get older, losing my hair
Many years from now...
Will you still need me, will you still feed me?
When I'm sixty-four...

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/3/2006 10:04:19 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Question: If you really cared about your Master (Mistress) or slave or submissive, you would take care of them if they were sick, right? Or at least help? You wouldn't toss them out the door because they were "too old"? Well, maybe some would.
Any comments (and accompanying justifications for whatever) welcome.
Sorry to be a wet blanket (if I am) but I do think this is rarely discussed, or maybe even contemplated (why would it be- nobody here is that old, I guess). Doesn't mean people can't think about it.

Question: So - What's your plan, as far as D/s or M/s in your life goes, goes when you really start to age? Gonna have someone there who gives a darn about your welfare, even if you're a wrinkled up thing that can hardly walk anymore, or what? Or not? Gonna toss someone out the door on their butt because they've suddenly become "too old" and-or too much work to care for?


Neither the Kaptin nor I would ever even consider putting someone out of our home and our lives simply because they've become too ill or too old to serve - especially not someone who has been part of our family and served well in their years with us.  That's just too heartless to even contemplate!
 
Besides... part of being a slave in this household is providing companionship, and there is no age limit on companionship.
 
To little pita:
quote:

But, I agree that legally it would be a lot simpler to just marry me so that I know no one can keep me from him if something happens like a terminal illness.  

Have a medical power of attorney drawn up.  My sister's (then) fiancee had one drawn up for her about a year before they got married, and it's a good thing he did, because he wound up hospitalized, in the ICU, and his estranged wife tried to keep her from him.  All she had to do was present the POA, and the wife couldn't do a thing about it.  My sister made all his medical decisions while he was unable to do so.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/4/2006 12:58:17 AM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Question: If you really cared about your Master (Mistress) or slave or submissive, you would take care of them if they were sick, right? Or at least help? You wouldn't toss them out the door because they were "too old"? Well, maybe some would.

I already do. Master has chronic health problems (renal failure, diabetes) and I knew all that when we got together. Things have changed since then, He is on different dialysis now in hospital instead of at home, and we have been through many hospital stays and procedures. I am listed as His next of kin and we will be getting married in 4 months.

Question: So - What's your plan, as far as D/s or M/s in your life goes, goes when you really start to age? Gonna have someone there who gives a darn about your welfare, even if you're a wrinkled up thing that can hardly walk anymore, or what? Or not? Gonna toss someone out the door on their butt because they've suddenly become "too old" and-or too much work to care for?

The D/s dynamic won't change, even if He is unable to weild a flogger or I am unable to kneel.....there are already things that we can't do or have to adapt to meet physical limitations. It doesn't detract one iota from the love we have for each other.

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RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/4/2006 1:00:51 AM   
CowgirlTough


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		I have a sub I talk to as a friend online and his wife is ill and dying. He refers to her as his wife now instead of his Mistress because most days she doesnt even know who he is and he says she is not the person who collared him. But he loves her and is keeping her home with the help of family, visiting nurses and the luck of his job is working from home. his life is filled with stress and many times he has had to quit talking to Me when she comes down the hall naked and ranting at him.

But all in all, I hope that I eventually find a sub/slave that will love Me enough to stay and take care of Me the way he cares for Her.
I know that I would care for whoever I own at the time, he that gave to Me would get caring in return.

(in reply to MistressSassy66)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: What happens to old slaves and Masters? - 8/4/2006 3:05:29 AM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Question: If you really cared about your Master (Mistress) or slave or submissive, you would take care of them if they were sick, right?

Question: So - What's your plan, as far as D/s or M/s in your life goes, goes when you really start to age?[quote/]
 
I can't speak about the reverse situation but if I die before my slave, I have life insurance and a friend to help her. I would prefer more than that for her but the right person(s) have not yet entered my sphere.
 
D(owner of j)

_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 40
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