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contracts???? - 8/4/2006 5:41:31 PM   
randomize


Posts: 13
Joined: 7/12/2006
Status: offline 		So I see some doms require contracts before they accept a 24hr/7day sub/slave.  What do these contracts usually state?  I'm trying to understand the purpose of them.  Excuse my noobishness.  Thanks!
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RE: contracts???? - 8/4/2006 5:48:46 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		If you look up slave contracts online, you can actauly find a good number of prototype, and personalizable contracts.  Essentially, before allowing you into their home, some Doms want you to sign a statement making sure you know exactly what you are in for and what wil be expected of you.

DV

(in reply to randomize)
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RE: contracts???? - 8/4/2006 7:49:15 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Contracts... hmmmm... why bother... if you cant keep your word then there is little point in having it in writing. I think loyalty, honesty and honor are the things that you need to live a good life in or outside bdsm and nothing I can put in writing is better than my word; my word is my bond.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
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RE: contracts???? - 8/4/2006 8:14:29 PM   
MsD


Posts: 68
Joined: 4/25/2004
Status: offline 		Sylverdawn, while I agree with you in one sense ... without the sincerity of a person's word, the written contract means nothing ... the contract does have a number of uses.  Of course, this is totally dependant on those involved & their personal twist on the lifestyle.  I, for one, will have a written contract whether it is a girl who comes to live 24/7 or it is a part-time girl (so to speak).  One purpose is that it forms as a basic formal commitment.  There is something about signing one's name to a contract that makes that commitment more solid, more tangible, more binding, if you will.  Most of the girls I've seriously talked with say it gives them some of that feeling of objectification that they seek as well as a deeper feeling of being owned.  It serves as a boundary where one has committed to a specific amount of time & therefore works as hard as possible for that amount of time to make things work.  They are not as likely to give up so easily & throw in the towel.  I personally believe in the contract being committed to by both parties, dominant & submissive/slave alike & includes certain basic aspects expected from both parties.  To me, it's a lot like the difference between just living with someone & signing that marriage contract.  *s*  But then, that's just me.

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
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RE: contracts???? - 8/5/2006 7:20:33 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		There are good things that contract can do such as provide an easy reference for the hard limits and the medical needs and the rules that both parties have agreed to. They can be used as a good way to help you slow down and think about what you are agreeing to as well as provide a means for you to center yourself when you are apart from your partner or when things get rough.

It should include things like limits, responsibilities, rules, rituals, medical information, contact information, a time limit, the method of renewal, and the way it can be declare null and void by either party. As you spend more time with a partner your contracts may become less detailed or more detailed depending on what you want. Renewal may become a ritual or romantic time depending on what you want. It can be a nice way to mark your time together if you are into that sort of thing -- we are around my house.

They are not legally binding and I even doubt that going through legal processes would result in a completely legally binding relationship -- people break contracts in the mundane world all the time and there are legal remedies for almost any type of contract. This means that the value of a BDSM contract is the value its writers and signers give it.

Never sign a contract unless you really believe in it and what it says. It is very much giving your word and your honor and you shouldn't take either of those lightly. On the other hand, if a contract is important to you, make that clear and don't settle for less -- I know first hand that these disagreements and dissimilarities related to contracts can cause serious problems.

It can be a good symbol and it can be useful. It is not the defining factor though in a relationship nor does it validate one.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to randomize)
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RE: contracts???? - 8/5/2006 10:02:27 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps I am a jaded Bitch ... but it can also be used to take to your family, shown to your boss, published in the local newspaper. I can see your point of view but contracts with my signature on it for a slave will never happen no matter how good it makes a submissive feel temporarily.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to MsD)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: contracts???? - 8/5/2006 10:32:20 AM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sylverdawn

Contracts... hmmmm... why bother... if you cant keep your word then there is little point in having it in writing. I think loyalty, honesty and honor are the things that you need to live a good life in or outside bdsm and nothing I can put in writing is better than my word; my word is my bond.


I have to agree here.  What can a contract accomplish that getting to KNOW someone wouldn't?  A marriage contract was mentioned as an alternative to simply living with someone yet we see how effective those are.  Personally, I don't think we will ever be able to devise a 'contract' for human relationships.  That will always be up to the people involved in that releationship, contract or no. 

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: contracts???? - 8/5/2006 2:19:03 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I dont have a contract per se,but I do have several pages of likes/dislikes that
touches a little bit on all types of things.
When the submissive has finished filling it out,W/we go over it just to make
sure everything is clear.I keep that in a file and add to it as time goes by.

While its not a legal binding type thing I do have them sign and date it just to make
it official to Myself and that sub.



_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: contracts???? - 8/6/2006 12:43:26 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Slave or Service contracts set up expectations for all parties involved in the agreement.  You can put as little or as much in them as you desire, like in any "contract" out there in society. Generally they cover beginning and end points, or at least stipulate the process for renewal or termination.  They detail out who is responsible for what, set limitations, boundaries and guidelines.  They may spell out rules, or they may be left for a guidance document that is more easily edited to suit the needs of the relationship (my preference.)

Jack Rinella has a fantastic slave contract in a few of his books.  It's the model contract between himself and his slave patrick.



_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to randomize)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: contracts???? - 8/6/2006 12:49:57 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery
I have to agree here.  What can a contract accomplish that getting to KNOW someone wouldn't?  A marriage contract was mentioned as an alternative to simply living with someone yet we see how effective those are.  Personally, I don't think we will ever be able to devise a 'contract' for human relationships.  That will always be up to the people involved in that releationship, contract or no. 

However, what contracts do bring is a ritual to the relationship, and a natural point to which individuals can come back together and renegotiate their needs.  I think that's a huge failure of marriages is that the parties involved get wrapped up in living life (together or individually) and fail to  see that each others needs have changed.  (Jack Rinella really addresses this, and their weekly "checkins" as being one of his relationship successes in his book, Partners in Power.)

< Message edited by MisPandora -- 8/6/2006 12:52:03 PM >

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 9:34:16 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

Slave or Service contracts set up expectations for all parties involved in the agreement. You can put as little or as much in them as you desire, like in any "contract" out there in society. Generally they cover beginning and end points, or at least stipulate the process for renewal or termination. They detail out who is responsible for what, set limitations, boundaries and guidelines. They may spell out rules, or they may be left for a guidance document that is more easily edited to suit the needs of the relationship (my preference.)

Jack Rinella has a fantastic slave contract in a few of his books. It's the model contract between himself and his slave patrick.




And they review it and make a mutual adult decision about renewing it regularly. The contract does not dictate their relationship nor does it equal some chain they are both tied to. It had value for them both and therefore it is a wonderful ritual they can embrace and use.

Their relationship is the one I would think of as a model for Fox and I.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 9:38:03 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Am a fan of contracts too, for all the reasons as posted by others  ..


_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


Visit My Website


(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 10:01:13 AM   
Chakota


Posts: 9
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Mis Pandora, if one views the contract as a fundamental guide tp live by binding on both parties the evolution of the relationship becomes rooted in deeply dedicated open forthcoming trustful communication. The contract is the corner stonr the skyscraper
of a relationship is erected upon.

(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 10:55:08 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I've not signed on either side, and don't know if I would, but it seems to me a contract would make for very clear, precise communication.

(in reply to Chakota)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 11:47:32 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I've not signed on either side, and don't know if I would, but it seems to me a contract would make for very clear, precise communication.


It can be a great foundation as Chakota said and I would add that it is better when it is both standard for the dominant (something she has designed knowing she can fulfill it without her continuous thought or forgettfulness) and then adapted to the needs of the individual submissive and their relationship. It can clear up assumptions earlier on about what is expected and give both people firmer parameters in which to get to know each other better.

However if you use a generic contract you will not be communicating and, in my strong opinion, be devaluing the individuality of the people involved. I think that can be a setup for big trouble.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 1:50:57 PM   
MsD


Posts: 68
Joined: 4/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery
What can a contract accomplish that getting to KNOW someone wouldn't?  A marriage contract was mentioned as an alternative to simply living with someone yet we see how effective those are.  Personally, I don't think we will ever be able to devise a 'contract' for human relationships.  That will always be up to the people involved in that releationship, contract or no. 

Quite right & no argument here ... it's all in the commitment of the people involved in the relationship, whether it is a marriage contract or M/s contract.  It is a way of concreting/formalizing a relationship.  But if one or both parties are not sincere in their commitment, it means absofrigginlutely nothing!  As far as "getting to KNOW someone" ... people change & grow (hopefully) each & every day they are alive, so can you truly KNOW them?  I am continually learning things about my husband & he I & we've been together 15+ yrs! 

(in reply to joyinslavery)
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RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 1:56:50 PM   
TheOriginalBitch


Posts: 35
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randomize

So I see some doms require contracts before they accept a 24hr/7day sub/slave.  What do these contracts usually state?  I'm trying to understand the purpose of them.  Excuse my noobishness.  Thanks!


BDSM Contracts Are Not Legal........

Now With That Said They Are A Guideline Between Two Adults.

These Guidlines Are Often Set Up For  Hard Limits, Rules, Expectations and Consequences.

But Ultimately It Is Up To Both Adults To Keep Their Word To Each Other.

MISTRESS
"THE ORIGINAL BITCH"

(in reply to randomize)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 6:29:42 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		OK so you have all said contracts are wonderful things..

Explain to me why it has to be in writing.. isn't a verbal contract just as binding.. isn't a collar a symbol of a verbal contract.. ie I wish to be served.. i wish to serve.. boundaries limitations expectations all can be discussed and committed to without me having to sit down and write it all out.. if my word is my bond then verbally I am committing to a contract, an understanding; a singularly unique agreement between myself and my submissive. If they want to write down expectations, understandings limitations and boundaries and have me look it over so be it. But explain to me WHY I need to sign a piece of paper to make it all that more formal.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to TheOriginalBitch)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 6:38:33 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		We havent all said contracts are so wonderful.  Sometimes, things have to be written, so that they are understood and not forgotten. A slave contract should be used as a guide and nothing more.  To depend on it to define your relationship means something far more basic is missing, like the connection between the sub and the master or mistress.  The formality of a non-legal document is in the eyes of the beholder.  To some, it provides some sense of security.  If you dont feel you need one, than thats your answer. You DONT need to sign a paper to make it formal.

Personally, I have no interest in a contract. Whether my boy does or not, I dont know, we have never discussed it.

DV

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: contracts???? - 8/7/2006 6:44:56 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		I haven't ever written a contract with a submissive, but I think a useful tie-in here might be written goal-setting. 

I've heard -- numerous times -- that people who put their goals down in writing are much more likely to achieve them.  For whatever reason, making the goal more real, making a bigger commitment to it, seeing your own words there later spurring you on, written goals work in a way that less concretized goals do.  More broadly, I've found this with other writing as well.  If I think about what I enjoy about a certain thing, I get a sense of it.  But when I *write* about it, I have to organize my thoughts more.  Doing this inevitably brings out more of my thoughts on that thing and presses me to be more clear with myself.

All of these things can be applied to written contracts between a dominant and a submissive.  If a contract is well-wrriten, thoughts are clarified, goals are made clear to achieve, positions are more out in the open through the process.  Just offering a slightly different perspective on the issue ...

It's interesting.  I have not previously been interested in contracts, but given this short reflection, I'd like to experiment with a simple one to see how it would affect the dynamic.



_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
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