RE: Mel and Forgivness

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enigmabrat -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 3:41:46 PM)
Ok the thing behind forgiveness is is he really sorry if he is sorry then the adult people will forgive him however if he is really anti semetic then there is nothing to forgive becuase then he isnt really sorry for he cant be sorry for something he really beleaves to be true

Level -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 3:45:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: enigmabrat Ok the thing behind forgiveness is is he really sorry if he is sorry then the adult people will forgive him however if he is really anti semetic then there is nothing to forgive becuase then he isnt really sorry for he cant be sorry for something he really beleaves to be true But he can be sorry for causing others pain. A fine line to walk, to be sure.

juliaoceania -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 3:45:46 PM)
I know Level, I just had time to think about this thread while I am working here and it started to bother me that most of the people responding to this thread think he needs forgiveness for the words he utters and not the actions he took. He has the right to be as ignorant, prejudiced, and hatefilled as he likes.. and if we do not like it then we can not go to his movies I suppose. I haven't seen a Mel Gibson movie since before The Passion because I have no interest in seeing that. Then again if the Religious Right and Rush Limbaugh like it, Im probably going to run from it...smiles.

smilezz -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 4:19:29 PM)
(fast reply) Where's the forgiveness for the people you never hear about because they are not actors...etc.? they are not in the news? I think the whole thing has gotten more media attention than it deserves. He made mistakes, luckily no one was hurt while he was driving drunk...he made some derogitory remark(s)........he sucks! because of it...........but honestly, what is anyone gonna do? Notta. It will not affect his millions. ~smilezz~

UtopianRanger -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 5:22:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moloch Drunken mouth always speaks a sober mind. I agree..... I heard some words last night that came out of person who drank a little too much wine for their own good - Got to see a side of them which really makes me think twice about talking to them again. I spent ten years in the alcohol business, and I can't stand mouthy, overly-courageous drunks – They’re always the first to get wupped’ As for Mel.... I've paid very little attention to the issue.....He needs to be held in high standard...and if he made racist comments, then he deserves the rotten fruit that's a result of them. - R

LotusSong -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 5:28:07 PM)
Forgivness is giving up any hope of a different past.

Estring -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 7:17:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Did the officer survive said comment about her assets? My comment was that no matter what he said it isn't as bad as drinking and driving, a man his age should know better and that tells me he is an alcoholic. Frankly I am shocked that people are more put out by the drivel coming out his piehole then by his reckless disregard for human life while intoxicated. It says a lot about speech and our offense to what others say that we put a few racial comments up there with DRINKING AND DRIVING which kill 1000s every year. Personally I would rather be called "sugar tits" than have some drunken asshole hit me with his car, but then again I have taken much verbal abuse from drunks in my life occupationally (former bartender cocktail waitress) to understand that drunks are usually assholes and say things they would not normally say. I think that personally I can forgive many things in this world, including the kid that murdered my cousin with his immaturity, I can definitely forgive ignorant stereotyping racially charged comments coming from an incoherent middle aged alcoholic... And make no mistake, you go around drinking and driving at his age it means something much more sinister than when you do it in your 20s. He probably does it all the time. The man has a disease, and I hope he gets help. I have seen this disease kill others in the past.. people I love as a matter of fact. Now as for what he said, I could be as put out by the sugar tits comment as Jews are by antisemitism, lord knows women are the victims of violence on a large scale in many societies.. far more women have been raped, murdered, and beaten than Jews in the history of the world.. But maybe it is just acceptable to get bent over antisemitism, but being derogatory toward my sex is just hunky dory. Perhaps someone should start a thread about that? I have known a few people through my university who were sued by the Antideflamation League, how come they are the only group that will sue your ass for saying what you think about them? As far as those who think that is an antisemitic statement I refer you to my hero, Noam Chomsky, and yes he is an anthropologist and a Jew. What the hell are you talking about? So do we now make a list of what is worse, anti-semitism or violence against women? The Jews were victims of an attempt to exterminate every last one of them. It's called Genocide.Where has there been an attempt like that on women?

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 7:47:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong The question was posed during a news cast this morning: Should Mel Gibson be forgiven his remarks because of his alcoholism? or Should we consider the "a drunken mouth speaks a sober mind" premise and ostracize him? I think that if he apologizes sincerely, we can watch his behavior and see if the words correlate with the deeds... I was never a big fan of his, and I'm not one to idolize people just because they're popular or have a lot of money... I tend to admire people who live in a way that is conducive to world peace and harmony, especially if they do more with their money they buy more bling/friends. M

Estring -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/5/2006 8:12:36 PM)
I would imagine that Mel is catching hell from his wife right about now too. I think his actions may have cost him half his wealth.

enigmabrat -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 4:50:07 AM)
Na maybe she'll just paddle him gawd knows he could use it

ownedgirlie -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 8:31:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Im more offended by drinking and driving than I am anything he said, much of which isn't released in the link Lotus provided. Calling people "f****** bleeps" when they are not present isn't going to kill anyone... drinking and driving kills people, like my cousin when she was 16 (we were the same age and she would be 38 today if it weren't for the drunk kid that hit her car). Thank you. My thoughts were the same. And while I am not keen on racism and overall asshole-ness, isn't there also a thread running, on Political Correctness, and how we all hate it? So Mel wasn't being politically correct and now we're bashing him for it. Odd.

Level -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 8:34:43 AM)
Not so odd; not being politically correct doesn't mean one has to be rascist, of course. If he honestly blames Jews for so much, then that's his right and his choice, but I'd find it sad. Doesn't mean I'd stop seeing his movies, either.

maybemaybenot -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 9:11:20 AM)
Fast reply to OP: Of course we should forgive him. * We * forgive most pubic figures for their insensitive, racial remarks. They get far less press than Gibson is getting and it all just fades away after they make a public apology. No one questions whether the apology was sincere or not, they just forgive and move on. I'm not a Gibson fan, don't really care what he said. But I do care what our elected leaders say. Here are just a few racist remarks * we * have forgiven. Hilary Clinton in reference to M. Ghandi: "He ran a gas station in St. Louis" Hilary Clinton in reference to A. Coulter: "She's a short, Irish bitch" J. Biden in reference to the growing Indian immigrant population in Maryland: " You can't go into a 7-11 unless you have a slight Indian accent. And I'm not joking " Senator Byrd was a recruiter for the KKK, he has been forgiven. Clinton and Biden were stone cold sober when they made their remarks, I am assuming Byrd was sober during his recruitment period. Those stories got maybe 2 days of press coverage and not this national scrutiny that Gibson is getting. It's a little disturbing, to me, that we can obsess and publically flog Gibson, yet just drink the Kool Aid, when one of our Leaders makes equally disturbing comments. I'm with Julie on Gibson. It is far more disturbing that he was driving drunk. That seems to be an " incidental snipet" to the whole Gibson story, not a major issue. Why isn't some group like MADD calling for an apology for driving drunk? mbmbn

Level -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 9:23:47 AM)
Good post, mbmbn. Amazingly, I put the Gandhi quote into Google and came up with only one hit. Lends some credence to what you're saying, doesn't it? That, or the Clinton-haters just missed that one lol.

LotusSong -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 11:26:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong The question was posed during a news cast this morning: Should Mel Gibson be forgiven his remarks because of his alcoholism? or Should we consider the "a drunken mouth speaks a sober mind" premise and ostracize him? I think that if he apologizes sincerely, we can watch his behavior and see if the words correlate with the deeds... I was never a big fan of his, and I'm not one to idolize people just because they're popular or have a lot of money... I tend to admire people who live in a way that is conducive to world peace and harmony, especially if they do more with their money they buy more bling/friends. M What I think happened was that he was drinking and discussing the Mideast conflict and the recent developments between Israel and Lebanon- and when he got pulled over. he was probably still babbling and spewed to the officer an out of context blurb that was a going on in his mind at the time.. Just a guess. Not making excuses for him. I just sure wouldn't want to be him right now.

Estring -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 12:34:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Im more offended by drinking and driving than I am anything he said, much of which isn't released in the link Lotus provided. Calling people "f****** bleeps" when they are not present isn't going to kill anyone... drinking and driving kills people, like my cousin when she was 16 (we were the same age and she would be 38 today if it weren't for the drunk kid that hit her car). Thank you. My thoughts were the same. And while I am not keen on racism and overall asshole-ness, isn't there also a thread running, on Political Correctness, and how we all hate it? So Mel wasn't being politically correct and now we're bashing him for it. Odd. Mel was being anti-semetic. Replace Jews with Blacks and would you be poo pooing his remarks then? It has nothing to do with political correctness.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 1:14:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Not so odd; not being politically correct doesn't mean one has to be rascist, of course. If he honestly blames Jews for so much, then that's his right and his choice, but I'd find it sad. Doesn't mean I'd stop seeing his movies, either. OK. I see your point. I was on 4 hours sleep with no coffee...do I get a waiver? I think he was just being an asshole (and yes I think racists are assholes), but I didn't see him as a threat, other than driving drunk. If he apologizes and is sincere, then I would forgive him and move on. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he had a fight with a Jewish person and was carrying baggage around. If he defends his remarks, then I stop supporting him and that means no more Mel movies. There are many whose work I no longer support for reasons like that.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 1:22:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Im more offended by drinking and driving than I am anything he said, much of which isn't released in the link Lotus provided. Calling people "f****** bleeps" when they are not present isn't going to kill anyone... drinking and driving kills people, like my cousin when she was 16 (we were the same age and she would be 38 today if it weren't for the drunk kid that hit her car). Thank you. My thoughts were the same. And while I am not keen on racism and overall asshole-ness, isn't there also a thread running, on Political Correctness, and how we all hate it? So Mel wasn't being politically correct and now we're bashing him for it. Odd. Mel was being anti-semetic. Replace Jews with Blacks and would you be poo pooing his remarks then? It has nothing to do with political correctness. I just now mentioned in my reply to Level that I stand corrected - it was more than a lack of PC. When I read the words this morning, I just saw an drunken asshole spouting off stupid crap. If he believes what he says, then he is an idiot. For the record, my Master was born Jewish. He has heard that kind of crap all his life and we have spoken of it. So I just saw Mel's words as reflective of another ignorant idiot not knowing what he was talking about.

Level -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 1:23:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: Level Not so odd; not being politically correct doesn't mean one has to be rascist, of course. If he honestly blames Jews for so much, then that's his right and his choice, but I'd find it sad. Doesn't mean I'd stop seeing his movies, either. OK. I see your point. I was on 4 hours sleep with no coffee...do I get a waiver? I think he was just being an asshole (and yes I think racists are assholes), but I didn't see him as a threat, other than driving drunk. If he apologizes and is sincere, then I would forgive him and move on. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he had a fight with a Jewish person and was carrying baggage around. If he defends his remarks, then I stop supporting him and that means no more Mel movies. There are many whose work I no longer support for reasons like that. You need no waiver, my friend [:)]. I agree, rascists are assholes, at least that part of them is; in Gibson's defense, he's asked to speak to the Jewish community so he can try to make things right. I really hope he follows through on that, and addresses his drinking problems.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Mel and Forgivness (8/6/2006 2:31:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level You need no waiver, my friend [:)]. I agree, rascists are assholes, at least that part of them is; in Gibson's defense, he's asked to speak to the Jewish community so he can try to make things right. I really hope he follows through on that, and addresses his drinking problems. Thanks, Level [:)] I hope that his efforts to remedy this are sincere and not a PR game. Since he was so adament about NOT being anti semetic before, I would hope that wasn't all a complete lie.

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