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Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 3:34:15 PM   
Nalta


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I've heard that sometimes things in your enviroment or genetics can predispose you to something. The most famous examples being that if raised in a violent atmoshpere you are more likely to use violence to resolve your problems. Or that being feed big amounts of junk food when you are 5 will predispoe you toward being fat later on in life. So my quesiton is, do you think there is something that oreinets you toward the BDSM scene? I've heard everything from "an overcontroling mother makes one into a sadist" to "submissives are caused when a kid gets beat up on the playground to often." so, think any of those are true? And do you think that something that happened to you in your child hood or teenage years made you into a master or slave?
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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 3:35:59 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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My standard answer- orientations are innate while expressions of orientations are learned and shaped

http://www.collarchat.com/m_499963/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#499979
nature or nurture?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_307130/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#307130
Do you feel being a dom/me is innate or can be learned?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_461558/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#461558
hard-wired, why why why!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_143698/mpage_1/key_born%252Craised/tm.htm#143698
nature versus nurture

http://www.collarchat.com/m_468650/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#468650
nature vs nurture

http://www.collarchat.com/m_35901/mpage_1/key_learned%252Cborn/tm.htm#35901
born or learned, how we become dom?

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 8/5/2006 3:36:56 PM >


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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 3:38:12 PM   
Nalta


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well uh......hmmm.........at least I know I'm not the only one whos had that thought cross my mind before >.<

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 3:58:18 PM   
WhipTheHip


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Hi Nalta,
 
The only way to truly know is to do a scientific study.   There may be one
answer for S&M and another answer for D/s.  I have a feeling that S&M is
more genetic, and D/s is partly nature and partly nurture.
 
Michael
 

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 4:07:52 PM   
Nalta


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personaly, I think that in 90% of folks, its nurture

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 4:20:40 PM   
DiurnalVampire


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Personally, I dont think anything in my childhood predisposed me to being a Mistress. My personality is naturally dominant (which has nothing to do with my upbringing, my mother is controlling, but not dominant and my father is, well, just there). I was the one in charge in relationships well before I even know what BDSM was, it was just a progression once i did learn about it.
However, I have noticed that the majority of sub men i have talked to say they were forced their entire lives to be in control, so their submision was a learned escape.

DV

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 4:26:43 PM   
popeye1250


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For me it started when I was about 7 years old and got a "Police Kit" with toy handcuffs that I LOVED to use to handcuff the girls to a tree!
That was it!
I was hooked.

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 4:59:52 PM   
Nosathro


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greeting all
 
Well I have to say I was born Dom, I kept tieing up my babysitters.
 
I wish you well
 
Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 5:23:55 PM   
Focus50


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Ever an excellent question and you'll most likely get 10 different answers from 10 random people.  Personally, I think nature and nurture has a hand in it but that it's mostly nature that implants the individual need and nurture shapes it, indeed, even allows it to evolve at all in a healthy sense.
 
I'm one who describes my dominant persuasion as an integral part of my sexuality, ie, it came with the genes.  I didn't "choose" the dominant needs I have anymore than someone chooses to be gay (or hetero) - I was chosen....  Nurture and general life circumstances has certainly played a healthy role in my own growth as a Dom; it's given me pride, honour, self-respect, manners, principles, a strong sense of justice etc - all excellent traits for a worthy Dom or Master.
 
My younger brother and older sister are both as vanilla as ice-cream yet we were all raised and treated much the same.  But Mum said I was always head-strong and preferred to do things my way etc....  I think a Dom or sub orientation comes from a random gene that you don't necessarily directly inherit; just as any vanilla couple can have gay offspring - even vice versa....
 
Focus.

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 7:14:10 PM   
DoctorDubious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

For me it started when I was about 7 years old and got a "Police Kit" with toy handcuffs that I LOVED to use to handcuff the girls to a tree!
That was it!
I was hooked.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

greeting all
 
Well I have to say I was born Dom, I kept tieing up my babysitters.
 
I wish you well
 
Nosathro



Hey All.......

Look, nobody really knows WHY
people turn out the way they do.....

And no scientific study,
not even with identical twins
separated at birth.....
could free itself from enough confounding variables
to give a really scientific answer about behaviour
as complex and muti-variant as "BDSM" ... whatever that is.

***********
I do feel like a bit of a piker compared
to them 2 dudes I quoted above,
because I didn't clue into perverted kinkiness
until I was fourteen, twice as old as Popeye....
http://www.collarchat.com/m_463104/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#463458


The "why' questions are always interesting,
but I have found the "how' questions more useful....
 
How do I make my life a fulfilled one........
How does a D/s relationship last and flourish.......
How best do we express our deepest inner longings?
 
How _________  ?
 
DD, a formerly philosophical old goat....

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 10:45:18 PM   
Needleddtits


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For me it started when I was about 7 years old and got a "Police Kit" with toy handcuffs that I LOVED to use to handcuff the girls to a tree!
That was it!
I was hooked.

Lol lol Well,then, for me it was when I saw balloons pop!  Just kidding, but loved your answer.

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 10:46:50 PM   
Needleddtits


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Look, nobody really knows WHY
people turn out the way they do.....

And no scientific study,
not even with identical twins
separated at birth.....
could free itself from enough confounding variables
to give a really scientific answer about behaviour
as complex and muti-variant as "BDSM" ... whatever that is.
  Very eloquently worded and probably very close to the truth.

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/5/2006 10:51:10 PM   
Needleddtits


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Well I have to say I was born Dom, I kept tieing up my babysitters. 
 
Your parents must have run out of babsitters really fast............hehehe

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/6/2006 4:45:39 AM   
WhipTheHip


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Hi there,
 
I have noticed that many people with super controling parents
turn out to be dominant.  Still, it is hard to say if it is genetic
or nurture, since they my have inherited the gene(s) that
made their parent controling.  I think there is a pretty close
relationship between being dominant and being controling.
 
Michael

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Flawed Logic - 8/6/2006 5:12:32 AM   
WhipTheHip


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> And no scientific study, not even with identical twins
> separated at birth.could free itself from enough confounding

> variables to give a really scientific answer about behaviour
> as complex and muti-variant as "BDSM"


This is, of course, absolute rubbish.   Studies of twins separated
at birth are exactly how something like this could be determined.
The larger the number of twins you have, the less variables
matter.   However complex or multi-variant bdsm is, there could
well be strong genetic markers that predispose a child to it.
 
If you studied 700 twins separated at birth, and found in 80%
of cases when one twin was into bdsm, the other was also
into bdsm, you can pretty well gather that there is a strong
genetic influence.  Likewise, if you studied 700 twins separated
at birth and found in 1% of the cases when one twin was into
bdsm the other was also into bdsm, you could easily conclude
genetics plays a small factor in bdsm.
 
Like I said, it would be usefull to break bdsm down into D/s
and S&M.   A study that looked at each of these things
differently would be more revealing.
 
You compare the chances of any two randomly picked
humans being into bdsm with the chances of genetic
twins separated at birth being into bdsm.
 
Variables can be discounted because as the size of the
sample increases, variables becomes statistically less
and less significant. 
 
In fact you could have a high degree of certainty in the
results of a study with just 16 twins separated at birth.
As the number approaches 30, the degree of certainty
in the results of the study become very, very high. 
With a sample of 700, the degree of certainty is so
great that no scientist or statistician would dispute the
results.   
 
 

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/6/2006 5:40:30 AM   
subnumber1


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When I am really honest with myself, I admit I havn't figured out why I am the way I am(submissive). I can think of heaps of things in my childhood that any expert would identify as being the cause or my personality, but I can also think of heaps of things in my past that the experts would say would be things that would encourage a dominant leaning. (hope that made sense?).

I think it is a brilliant question and despite thinking so much for an answer, I don't think I will ever get the answer for me.

Could be something that happened in my childhood or teenage years, but then again who knows.

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TRIGGER WARNING!!!!!!!!! - 8/6/2006 5:47:14 AM   
WhipTheHip


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TRIGGER WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   FOR SURVIVORS
THIS POST CONTAINS MATERIAL THAT IS TRIGGERING.


Personally, I dreamed about bdsm in sixth and seventh grade. 
I can'T think of any enviromental reason for my having these
very bdsm specific fantasies.
 
I do suspect that physical, emotional, or sexual abuse can
lead to an interest in bdsm.  Humans are imprinted by their
first sexual experience.  If a female child is spanked and
finds it erotic, this feeling my last for the rest of her life.
If a female child was sexually abused, this can make the
child submissive.  Adults who were sexually abused as
children often find sex repulsive and disgusting because
their first sexual experience was repulsive and disgusting. 
When they start craving sex, they feel conflicted about it. 
They may feel shame and guilt.  Having their partner tie
them allows them to indulge in sex without the guilt,
because they are not having sex voluntarily.  If the first
sexual experience was r*pe, then the person may find
reinacting that experience is the only way they can enjoy
sex. Likewise, if someone was "used" their first sexual
experience, they may continue to enjoy being used.  If
a child was whipped or beaten with belt, they may crave
being whipped or whipping others.
 
Psychodrama or reinactment of a traumatic experience
can be healaing.  It is also a form of desensitization.

 Abuse sometimes makes the child dominant, defiant 
and sadistic, this occurs more often with male children,
where testosterone turns anger outwards instead of
inwards as is the case with most female survivors
who turn their anger inwards and become submissive.
 
People become ***INURED*** to their environment.
People adapt to their environment.  So if a child is
in an abusive environment, they may adapt to
their environment by learning to accept the abuse.
Masochism and submission can be coping mechanisms
for highly abusive environments. 
 
Testosterone plays an important role in dominance.  There
is a very strong correlation between serum level testosterone
and dominance in all mammals.
 
Physical pain can also be used to block out psychological
pain.  Once a person discovers the endorphins associated
with physical pain, they can become addicted to those
endorphins.  
 
Most females have strong sexual inhibitions.  Sexual abuse
as a child removes those natural inhibitions and makes some
survivors much less sexually inhibited.  It is quite common
for survivors of sexual abuse to be quite active sexually, and
more open to new sexual experiences.  Of course, many
survivors of sexual abuse lose all interest in sex.  I suppose
it matters how strong their libido would have been. Survivors
with a weak libido will be completely turned off to sex, those
with a high libido have a good chance of turning to bdsm to
resolve their internal conflict between their disgust with sex,
and their craving for sex.

Childhood abuse can lead to lifelong depression, DID (formerly
MPD), cutting, border line personality disorder, low self-esteem,
alienation, distrust in everyone especially men (if a male was the
perp), substance abuse, promiscuity, guilt, shame, self-blame,
self-hate, feeling dirty, feeling different than others, feeling like
you have a dark secret that needs to be hidden, anger turned
inwards, numbness, an inability to form close relationships with
people, an inability to love, a change in sexual orientation, a
hatred toward men, repressed anger which explodes from
time-to-time at loved ones, cynicism, negativity, an absense
of faith in mankind, paranoia, sociopathy, anti-social behavior,
cigarette use, obesity, psychosis, flashbacks, creating a walled
city around their heart, post-traumatic stress syndrome, an
inability to beileve anyone is good, prostitution, always
anticipating and expecting the worst, accepting bad to
avoid the anxiety of getting it by surprise, a need to always
be in contol or a desire to be controlled.
 
Physical pain can be used to block psychological pain,
and fight a feeling of numbness.

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 8/6/2006 6:19:48 AM >

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/6/2006 7:27:35 AM   
CreoleCook


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Well, I'm not going into technical mumbo jumbo.  Not my style.  My 2 cents, I've noticed only one thing... many people who are more dominant in the workforce tend to be more submissive within intimacies, and vice versa.  Now I do realize there are many exceptions to that statement.  Just thought to point that out.

In looking at the question, I honestly cannot give you an answer, other to say Hell if I know.  I was the quiet one your parents loved, with a level head on his shoulders.  Now, parents still love me, but I'm a bit on the bad boy side of being a quiet man...

CC

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/6/2006 9:39:50 AM   
Nosathro


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greetings
 
Needleddtits...actually my real problems came in High School..asking for a date to include being tied up was hard.  Then the Gor books came out and I found myself.
 
I wish you well
 
Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

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RE: Can you be predisposed to BDSM? - 8/6/2006 10:05:48 AM   
Nalta


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dang, not even 24 hours and I get a good number of answers.  anyway, for me I think it started when I was much younger. I had a baby sitter who would watch both me and her two grand kids at the same time one of her grand kids was a girl...and everytime we played hide and seek I wold find her first, then tie her up and sit her down next to home bas so she wouldn't hide again. she never tried to re hide herself but I just said that so I could get away with it. It worked ofr a good while..till one day her grandma walked in and saw her with her feet tied together sitting on the couch. didnt try after that. I think she also liked it to cause she never told her grandma it was me and asked me to do it again

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