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RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 10:39:21 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		This is something that anthropologists argue about constantly, is there any such thing as objectivity when studying people and what they do, or are we always going to put our bias into it? For example, when studying a culture you always make a decision about what is important to include and disclude in your analysis of why people do what they do. Reporters do the same thing when reporting what they uncover, there is no way to not put bias in how we interpret information, even the very inclusion of one fact over another fact carries bias.. this is why many journalism majors take ethnography (my chosen field of anthropology) because this is very stressed in all these classes.

There is no such thing as objectivity.. objectivity is just an illusion. If you do not believe that here is an exercise for you.. sit in a room and describe everything in that room. After you do that successfullly read the next paragraph I write...

Did you count every mark on the walls, every bit of lint on the carpet? Did you specify the exact color of paint on the wall? Did you have a specific word in English for that shade of color? Did you concentrate on what was in your immediate line of vision? Or did you look at the ceiling and describe this? How about what was behind you? Did your position in the room change your "report"? I bet it did.

We all place value on some information over other information.. we are walking bundles of prejudices and subjectvity, and we can't be anything but that because we are only human.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 12:13:27 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		The “Left”, the “Right”, and the “Pragmatic”

quote:

NorthernGent: I joined here about a month ago and I assumed that the vast majority of people on here would lean towards the left. The reason being open mind, exploration etc - not just the lazy, narrow-minded, reactionary views on life.


Implying that the “right” is the standard-bearer of closed minded, lazy, and reactionary?

No-smoking laws or smoking tolerance in general; liberal left or closed minded right? Are entitlement programs generating hard working motivated citizens or lazy welfare collecting drains on society? Entitlement programs left or right wing inspired? Votes are counted and your party loses. Does the left or the right initiate a lawsuit regarding the matter? Everyone is aware of Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. If you need a right side example, I direct you to the Washington State gubernatorial election.
(Link:http://powerlineblog.com/archives/009083.php)

There is not one liberal or left policy that doesn’t result in taking something from another group. Work hard for the things you desire in life and its not your success that’s used as an example to others but your excess is pointed to, mocked, and taxed. Liberals are the least freedom and liberty oriented than any other group. They really don’t want equality they want people to be “more equal”. Within their dogma is obvious prejudice. Any program or application process that gives black people, woman, or any group special consideration is in its nature prejudicial. Not to the majority, but to the very people it hopes to treat on equal footing. In reality it’s saying a black man or a woman or anyone given a “more equal” status isn’t capable of competing equally. Should white runners be given a 10 yard head start in the 100 Meter dash because they were brought up athletically deficient? But because the “intent” is to legislate equality we accept these programs. In liberalism, intent is enough to justify action. Consequence or long term impact shouldn’t bring criticism because after all, our “hearts” and our “intent” are good. The consequences of liberal policies; cross generation welfare, poor school systems, bloated government bureaucracy just indicate that we need more taxes, more entitlement, more government. We need to hold back the potential over achievers in our class rooms until the least among us catches up. Better to graduate a class of mediocrity than have 10% super achievers and 10% failure. We can’t allow anyone to fail.

This brings to mind the other key aspect of liberalism. There is no debating the future or consequences with a left leaning liberal. They want to address issues and make amends for policies that are 140 years changed or talk about indigenous people 3,000 years removed; often ignoring treaties, consequences of war, or ancestral preference for migration. Liberals are quick to point of innocents hurt and killed while sunning themselves in the shade of rockets being launched over their heads across the border to a neighboring country but genocide by a religion and culture is ignored in Darfur. “Compassion and empathy” only seems to occur when the power in charge derives from the ‘right’ side of the issue.

quote:

Today more than 2.5 million people are homeless, starving and constantly facing death, according to the Save Darfur Coalition, an alliance of faith-based, humanitarian and human rights organizations, which has a Web site at www.savedarfur.org. (Link: http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060804/MCTV/608040354/1004/LIFE)


Would a brave liberal ever admit to leftist government or regime being corrupt? It there any evil worth fighting that is not “right wing”? Accepting and welcoming are not liberal attitudes. Neither is their any room from compromise or alternative views. You can lose your “liberal” card by disagreeing. Ostracism is swift if you don’t tow the entire liberal line. Need a case in point? Watch the Senate election in Connecticut.

quote:

Lieberman, a three-term Senate veteran, has been pummeled by millionaire cable television executive Ned Lamont over Iraq and for his willingness to work with Republican President George W. Bush. He is behind by 13 percentage points among likely voters, the Quinnipiac University poll found. (Link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2270980)


Senator Hilary Clinton should be careful. Lieberman and she have the same voting record concerning Iraq.

This is why once again in 2008 the choice from the Democratic side will lose. Every issue on the left is polarizing and exclusionary. They can tell why programs failed, why war was wrong, why more taxes are needed, why people shouldn’t own guns. But their voting records don’t live up to their convictions. Or they do not present a logical and macro solution. They can tell how it’s wrong. They can tell you why yesterday’s decision was wrong but aren’t so confident about the one they’d make tomorrow. As a result every fringe or minority group that they placate moves votes to their opposition. These fringe rallys are fun to attend and make for great TV but only serve to polorize and mobilize those against the fringe. They forget that fringe and minority groups are called that because they make up a minority or fringe factor. Need an example of how this works? California has a Republican governor who took steroids, fondles women, smokes cigars, and can’t pronounce the name of the state he governs; those are just his positive resume items. But the liberal Democratic opposition ran a candidate so far left to placate the fringe and minority groups that the high powered “right winger” Stephen Spielberg just came out backing Arnold. The same will happen in 2008 in the presidential election.

And it’s why we’ll be subjected to laws and policies from the more radical right wing. The vote against the polarizing minority creates an anti-fringe voting majority. Unfortunately for us there isn’t an alternative. Unfortunately for us the ‘winners’ interpret their plurality as a mandate instead of recognizing it for what it is, a vote against the opposition not FOR conservative or right wing policies.

Oh, and to answer the OP regarding “where I get my news”. The answer would be as long as this post. The short answer is everywhere, via every media; never trusting any source and avoiding those that I agree with 100%. I can’t learn anything from nodding in agreement.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 12:19:43 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		NPR and the BBC

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 1:20:41 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Work hard for the things you desire in life and its not your success that’s used as an example to others but your excess is pointed to, mocked, and taxed.


The right-wing never tire of this line.  "Work hard".  Doesn't a man down a mine work harder than a man wandering around a golf course selling stocks and shares by phone?

Of course he does.

Does he earn more money?

Almost never.

There are very few people who get rich from genuine hard work, which is why the right avoid it so much.

This myth of the right-wing version of "hard work" should be exploded once and for all.  

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 8/7/2006 1:32:16 PM >

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 1:37:56 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

The right-wing never tire of this line.  "Work hard".  Doesn't a man down a mine work harder than a man wandering around a golf course selling stocks and shares by phone?

Of course he does.

Does he earn more money? Almost never.

This myth of the right-wing version of "hard work" should be exploded once and for all.


E D,
Working with your mind is just as strenuous as working with your back. However, in the case of the good miner he has an advantage, he leaves his work at the mine; the good stockbroker's work rarely leaves his mind. The miner doesn't risk working a day for nothing or losing money as the person you chose to compare him. It's a trade off.

They do have one thing in common; unless they are both working for themselves they are not getting the real value for their work. Someone else up the food chain is getting his cut.

btw- It's not easy to concentrate on hitting a golf ball while determining what price to sell or buy a stock. And most good course now adays don't permit cell phones.

quote:

This myth of the right-wing version of "hard work" should be exploded once and for all.
Agreed - it's much better to sit on your ass, collect on the entitlements and complain about the miners and the stock-brokers who's taxes support you.

Your solution is missing. Common pay for both the stock-broker and miner? By the hour the miner may, on days, take a pay cut.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 1:49:13 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The right-wing never tire of this line.  "Work hard".  Doesn't a man down a mine work harder than a man wandering around a golf course selling stocks and shares by phone?

Of course he does.

Does he earn more money? Almost never.

This myth of the right-wing version of "hard work" should be exploded once and for all.


E D,
Working with your mind is just as strenuous as working with your back.


I used to work in mines and now I work in writing computer software.

I know which I found to be the harder work.

I was just pointing out that if hard work was genuinely what made people wealthy, miners would be rich, so would trawlermen and others who work hard their entire lives.

If you look at all the rich people in the world, are they rich through hard work or through paying someone else to do the hard work for them and collecting the profits from that work?

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that's how it is. 





< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 8/7/2006 1:54:15 PM >

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 2:07:31 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The right-wing never tire of this line.  "Work hard".  Doesn't a man down a mine work harder than a man wandering around a golf course selling stocks and shares by phone?

Of course he does.

Does he earn more money? Almost never.

This myth of the right-wing version of "hard work" should be exploded once and for all.


E D,
Working with your mind is just as strenuous as working with your back.


I used to work in mines and now I work in writing computer software.

I know which I found to be the harder work.

I was just pointing out that if hard work was genuinely what made people wealthy, miners would be rich, so would trawlermen and others who work hard their entire lives.

If you look at all the rich people in the world, are they rich through hard work or through paying someone else to do the hard work for them and collecting the profits from that work?

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that's how it is. 




E. D.,
You provide a great example of opportunity and choice, only available in a free market society.

Very few, if any, rich people get paid an equitable amount for what they are doing. Mostly they are paid for their ideas, or their ability to manage others efficiently. I don't distinguish the manner or definition of work by manual or mental means. Also "hard" is subjective. Opportunity is the best anyone can hope. Ability and, in many cases, luck are important determining factors of wealth or "success".

Doesn't the best "trawler-man" make more than a first time sailor? A sailor trawling for King Crab in Alaska within the arctic circle makes more than a day-mate leaving from Long Beach Harbor. They can both be happy and satisfied. Because the stock broker has a different path don't assume he lacks pain, anxiety, and doesn't earn his money.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 2:17:51 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		As someone that worked her behind off before she got an education I have to say I agree with EnglishDom, it is unfair that the surplus wealth ends up with a few people that rarely toiled away to achieve their wealth and position. It isn't fair that some people are talented or beautiful while the rest of us aren't either.

I am not so bigheaded or full of myself to think I have earned every opportunity that came my way, I merit my position due to my intellect (according to those who encourage me to a PhD program), but that doesn't mean that I will "deserve" a 6 figure income. I tell you I worked much harder when I was a waitress. I didn't enjoy my work either.

You say that in a free market society that we all do what we want. That isn't true. Social programs helped me get into school in the first place, and taxpayer money paid for most people's primary education. These are socialist programs, not free market programs, although industry and capitalism benefit from an educated populace, they do not pay for it.

By and large it is unfair that some public schools are exceptional, and some stink. Not all of us have the same opportunities to better our lives, nor the talent or the intellect either. It is not a correct assessment in my view to think that every miner could get into computer programming... Just my thoughts on the unfairness of the so-called free market society, which is really not free market at all since we little people pay subsidies for corporations to have the benefit of a civil society to do business in..

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 2:46:33 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I am not so bigheaded or full of myself to think I have earned every opportunity that came my way, I merit my position due to my intellect


julia,
Consistently applying your logic your "intellect" shouldn't earn you any different consideration to a PhD program than someone who doesn't have it. Why shouldn't everyone have the same opportunity regardless of "intellect". Rarely do PhD's toil away as hard as graduate assistants.

You're intellect is only one aspect of getting into a PhD program. And you will work to obtain it.

quote:

You say that in a free market society that we all do what we want. That isn't true. Social programs helped me get into school in the first place, and taxpayer money paid for most people's primary education. These are socialist programs, not free market programs, although industry and capitalism benefit from an educated populace, they do not pay for it.


Sure they pay for it! Taxes pay for it. Licensing and fees pay for it. I never said you get to "do what we want". I said we have the opportunity to do what we want. You also have the opportunity to live with the consequences to do what you want. Those choices now have socialist crutches. But they aren't free. They are paid by the very people you condemn, not from charitable "surplus", but from out of the pay first - tax. Your "socialist programs" are paid for by individual and corporate taxes. Your goal is the result of having a free market to go to after the fact. Whether that results in a 6 figure income will be because you generate more value than that for your employer, or if self employed, your able to market your skill to a customer base that supports that level compensation.

No one "deserves" anything. You earn it. That is exactly my point.

quote:

it is unfair that the surplus wealth ends up with a few people that rarely toiled away

What's you definition of "surplus wealth". Does the Billions that Bill Gates donate to charity fall under that definition? Where would charities get their money without individuals "surplus"?

Where is your right to judge what is "surplus" derived? Aren't my children and family entitled? My "surplus" makes up for my kids deficits on many months. Should it first go to someone else?

If you can get to work by bus, any expenditure for a private auto is "surplus". If you have more than one room, the rest are "surplus" when compared to a homeless person. How many homeless do you welcome to share your "surplus"?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 3:34:50 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Merc,

My view of the terms 'left' and 'right' is based on the British political system simply because that is what I know.

Actual left-wing policy in Britain has been based around the collective i.e. nationalisation, social justice, higher taxation, full employment, internationalism. Actual right-wing policy has been based around privatisation, free-market economics, low taxation, reduced social welfare programmes, war-mongering policy, rigid class structure.

The left really couldn't care less about nationalism and patriotism and takes a collective international view of the world whereas the right is driven by the self-interest of one nation and has no qualms with sending people to die in wars that have absolutely nothing to do with this country.

These points are why it is fair to draw the conclusion that, in Britain, the left has more concern for the well-being of society than the right and the individualist policies they advocate.

When you say "there are no left-wing policies that don't result in taking things from another group" - you may be right but so what? You're judging the well-being of society based on individuals which is a strange stance to adopt as we all depend on each other and surely we should be judging the merits of policy on the collective result rather than a section of society. As said on another thread, Britain and the US are two countries who historically have been far more conservative than Western Europe and we both have crime rates out of control - there is a correlation here. This is that societies that govern themselves with a reasonable amount of social justice are not as dysfunctional as those that don't.

In terms of taking things from another group, actual Left-Wing policy in Britain has only ever advocated taking things from those who are born into wealth (i.e. the Monarchy, the landed classes etc. Is it right that in this day and age we have heriditary wealth and they sit on fortunes while we have a huge homeless problem?) and fat cats (who drain millions from the economy and waste it on lavish luxuries such as yachts/private jets etc - surely, there is something wrong with this when we have a significant proportion of the population living in poverty?)

Regards

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 3:43:05 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The right-wing never tire of this line.  "Work hard".  Doesn't a man down a mine work harder than a man wandering around a golf course selling stocks and shares by phone?

Of course he does.

Does he earn more money? Almost never.

This myth of the right-wing version of "hard work" should be exploded once and for all.


E D,
Working with your mind is just as strenuous as working with your back.


I used to work in mines and now I work in writing computer software.

I know which I found to be the harder work.

I was just pointing out that if hard work was genuinely what made people wealthy, miners would be rich, so would trawlermen and others who work hard their entire lives.

If you look at all the rich people in the world, are they rich through hard work or through paying someone else to do the hard work for them and collecting the profits from that work?

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that's how it is. 



E. D.,
You provide a great example of opportunity and choice, only available in a free market society.

Very few, if any, rich people get paid an equitable amount for what they are doing. Mostly they are paid for their ideas, or their ability to manage others efficiently. I don't distinguish the manner or definition of work by manual or mental means. Also "hard" is subjective. Opportunity is the best anyone can hope. Ability and, in many cases, luck are important determining factors of wealth or "success".




Exactly.  But opportunism is not "hard work", as the right-wing would constantly try and have people believe.

quote:



Doesn't the best "trawler-man" make more than a first time sailor? A sailor trawling for King Crab in Alaska within the arctic circle makes more than a day-mate leaving from Long Beach Harbor. They can both be happy and satisfied. Because the stock broker has a different path don't assume he lacks pain, anxiety, and doesn't earn his money.


I didn't, at least I don't remember assuming that anywhere.  I just pointed out that working hard doesn't necessarily equate to financial reward for that work, which is a myth the right-wing have gotten away with for years. 

As I said earlier, look at most wealthy people today, they don't make their money from hard work, they make it from other people doing hard work for them.  I'm not proposing a better system but I am tired of hearing the right-wing overstate what they mean by hard work in the first place. 

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 8/7/2006 3:44:14 PM >

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 3:45:44 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Merc,

To add, it is all a big con.

There are so many people who know very little about Left-Wing policy and yet are quick to denounce the left. Why is this? Because the population has been conned.

The establishment are conservative and right-wing in nature by virtue of wanting to preserve the staus quo i.e. their position as a have in society at the expense of the have-nots.

To achieve this they spin all sorts of propaganda such as the left are loonies, are lazy, want to take everything from you, have no concern for the family, they will tax you to the hilt, have no concern for law and order etc.

What they are doing is appealing to peoples' sense of self-interest and throwing in a few stereotypes for good measure to create a stigma surrounding the left. Because of the self-interest factor the population falls for this everytime without examining Left-Wing policy and you end up in a situation where people just regurgitate the establishment line without even knowing what they are talking about.

As we become more educated we will realise how conned we have been.

Regards

(in reply to NorthernGent)
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RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 3:57:36 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Merc,

You are confusing Liberalism with the left. I appreciate that the meaning of political ideology changes over time but Liberalism has never been left-wing. One defining difference, Liberalism is founded on the free-market economic system and everything that flows from this. Left-wing policy certainly is not.

And, most of your post seems to be based around the Democrat Party. Out of curiosity, which Democrat policies are left-wing in nature?

Regards

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 3:58:08 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not proposing a better system but I am tired of hearing the right-wing overstate what they mean by hard work in the first place. 


E. D.,
Well, I don't consider myself right wing, but if someone else feels I meet the definition of that label so be it.

My meaning for the "hard work" comment is simple. Quit rationalizing about how you can't improve your situation because of some condition you were born to or live. Quit complaining and take the energy it requires to do something personally about your situation not waiting for someone to present you with an opportunity. Appreciate there are consequences for your actions whether they are incurred at the time of action or 10 years later, when you realize you should have stayed in school or at least listened while there. Accept failure and consequences as learning experiences.

The other thing to remember that hard work doesn't always end in "success" no matter how you define success. The only failure is in quiting. Blaming others doesn't improve your odds of success.

If you need any consolation about hard work and failure focus on one thing. All successful people and failures have one ultimate destination - death.

Why be miserable complaining while you wait for that common destiny? You may as well try to do what you can to make yourself as comfortable as possible while living.

Being happy with yourself and your situation is often the hardest work you'll ever do.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 4:12:54 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


I agree completely. I joined here about a month ago and I assumed that the vast majority of people on here would lean towards the left. The reason being open mind, exploration etc - not just the lazy, narrow-minded, reactionary views on life. You know, people able to show charity, compassion and empathy. How wrong can a man be - some posters on here would fit quite nicely into the devil's backstage party in hell and actually upstage the devil and send him packing with his forked tail firmly between his legs.



A glaring example of why I began an intellectual expansion beyond the Left years ago; open-minded if you agree with us, and smug dismissals for the rest.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 4:19:18 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Merc,

Your quote:

Being happy with yourself and your situation is often the hardest work you'll ever do.
 
For genuine happiness humans need love, loyalty, respect, friendship - not the superficial, material benefits of Conservatism driven by war/slaughter, economic exploitation and social exclusion. Genuine happiness will never be achieved through support for self-interest driven Conservatism.

Although your post wasn't aimed at me I can't help but wonder how you have drawn the conclusion that having a social conscience equals complaining.

Regards
 



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 4:24:30 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Work hard for the things you desire in life and its not your success that’s used as an example to others but your excess is pointed to, mocked, and taxed.


The right-wing never tire of this line.  "Work hard".  Doesn't a man down a mine work harder than a man wandering around a golf course selling stocks and shares by phone?

Of course he does.

Does he earn more money?

Almost never.

There are very few people who get rich from genuine hard work, which is why the right avoid it so much.

This myth of the right-wing version of "hard work" should be exploded once and for all.  


Why does the miner have to have as much money as the stock broker? I do believe in making enough money for a decent life, and I believe everyone should have access to medical care, but I don't begrudge someone wealth, either.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 4:25:46 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Level,

I've put plenty of posts up explaining the content of right-wing policy and how it is driven by self-interest, reactionary politics and a narrow-minded view of the world.

In a sense you have proved my point because instead of arguing against the content of what I have put up you just dismiss the posts as smug. Not very open-minded in anyone's language. But, the offer still stands, feel free to look back through my posts and show me where I am wrong on the drivers of right-wing politics.

Regards

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 4:30:51 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I'm not proposing a better system but I am tired of hearing the right-wing overstate what they mean by hard work in the first place. 


E. D.,
Well, I don't consider myself right wing, but if someone else feels I meet the definition of that label so be it.

My meaning for the "hard work" comment is simple. Quit rationalizing about how you can't improve your situation because of some condition you were born to or live. Quit complaining and take the energy it requires to do something personally about your situation not waiting for someone to present you with an opportunity.


It might be just me but I don't see anyone actually doing this on this whole thread.  If you'd said in your original post that by "hard work" you actually meant "opportunism", I'd probably have agreed with you.

quote:


Appreciate there are consequences for your actions whether they are incurred at the time of action or 10 years later, when you realize you should have stayed in school or at least listened while there. Accept failure and consequences as learning experiences.


What you should appreciate is that the people you're deriding as failures are the people that keep a country on its feet.  If an entire nation was made up of stockbrokers it would simply grind to a halt tomorrow.
quote:



The other thing to remember that hard work doesn't always end in "success" no matter how you define success. The only failure is in quiting. Blaming others doesn't improve your odds of success.


Again, where does anybody do this on this thread, it seems to me to be just unrelated to anything anyone put forward.

quote:



If you need any consolation about hard work and failure focus on one thing. All successful people and failures have one ultimate destination - death.

Why be miserable complaining while you wait for that common destiny? You may as well try to do what you can to make yourself as comfortable as possible while living.

Being happy with yourself and your situation is often the hardest work you'll ever do.


Oh man.

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 8/7/2006 4:32:51 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Where do you get your news? - 8/7/2006 4:40:51 PM   
Rumtiger


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Status: offline 		Howard Stern show, hey, hes honost and Robins pretty damn informative.

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