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RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 5:11:33 PM   
IndigoDadesi


Posts: 185
Status: offline
MisPandora,

Thanks for clearing up the hypnosis question for me. I really dont know anything about it so enlightenment on the subject is greatly appreciated.

As for the rest of my response, I apoligizeif it came off as acusitory, I didnt intend it that way. I just really want to emphasize (to everyone) that rape doesnt always fit into the cookie-cutter definition of being violent, forceful or threatening. Alot of the time victims are coerced and/or under the influence of alcohol or drugs. In those cases more often than not the victim is lead to believe that she or he can trust their attacker and willing participate in the act only later realizing that it was an action they would not have taken under "normal" circumstances.

In this case I believe the girl was lead to believe that play with "Dick" was appropriate. I cannot say for sure if alcohol or drugs were involved in the evening. My point is simply that if her Dominant is angry about the situation and the girl feels like she has done something wrong, something that she would not have done under (and I use this term loosely) normal circumstances then that does constitute as rape because "Dick" did not in fact have permission, as may have been insinuated  to the girl earlier in the evening.


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(in reply to MisPandora)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 5:19:49 PM   
enigmabrat


Posts: 2383
Joined: 8/1/2004
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Honestly we need more onfo but i dont think the OP is following the thread

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(in reply to IndigoDadesi)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 8:11:34 PM   
DsCoupleOhio


Posts: 3
Status: offline
I would like to first and formost thank Y/you all for Y/your input.. there is much that was left out of this that now I see should have been put to the story not wanting to ruin others names... As for Me and My Clan.. We are VERY MUCH in order. The training was relaxed due to the people involved... It would be like inviting Y/your best friends over for dinner and having this break out... I do know the people who came over and until this point trusted them implicitely.. As for what the submissive wanted.. She admited it was something she did infact agree to and thus since posted was repremanded on her behavior. Again, she was still learning and the other couple was there to "help" by creating a "public scene atmosphere" in what should have been the safety of our home.
 
It was not the fact she had sexual relations. It was more the fact of protocol. I do not need opinions on "Dick or My girl's" sex life...only where to stand with Dick and if this is an offence punishable by dismissal...
 
Thank Y/you

(in reply to enigmabrat)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 8:15:50 PM   
HouseofBear


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
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I agree in that you need to accept some responsibility for what occurred.  You went to bed knowing that Dick was displaying unseemly behavior already, and the dominant is responsible for protecting their property and keeping it safe.  By allowing Dick to play with her at all, when you had not been able to do so yourself, you were already sending a mixed message to this girl and to him as well about who was the dominant in charge.  I would talk extensively with the young lady and see if the relationships within your home can be repaired.  It is possible that working through this you can come out of it stronger together.  As to Dick, he would not be invited back to my home, and I would also explain to Jane why this has occurred.  If she is unable to understand and gets upset, then is her friendship really a loss?

Lady Ursa

(in reply to enigmabrat)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 8:15:51 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DsCoupleOhio

I would like to first and formost thank Y/you all for Y/your input.. there is much that was left out of this that now I see should have been put to the story not wanting to ruin others names... As for Me and My Clan.. We are VERY MUCH in order. The training was relaxed due to the people involved... It would be like inviting Y/your best friends over for dinner and having this break out... I do know the people who came over and until this point trusted them implicitely.. As for what the submissive wanted.. She admited it was something she did infact agree to and thus since posted was repremanded on her behavior. Again, she was still learning and the other couple was there to "help" by creating a "public scene atmosphere" in what should have been the safety of our home.

It was not the fact she had sexual relations. It was more the fact of protocol. I do not need opinions on "Dick or My girl's" sex life...only where to stand with Dick and if this is an offence punishable by dismissal...

Thank Y/you

I dunno, it sounds like your slave and Dick did exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons. 

Why wouldn't you give them both the same response?

I think you want to forgive your slave and somehow make the dom "more responsible" when in fact it could be said that the slave had far more going on since she made such a deeper commitment of obedience to you.  He disrespected your rules and property- she completely disrespected you, herself, the rules of the house, and her commitment to you.

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(in reply to DsCoupleOhio)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 8:27:48 PM   
DsCoupleOhio


Posts: 3
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The blame has rested on Our shoulders..We are well aware where We went wrong.. Remember when reading...this is an EXTREMELY Shortened version. By the time We went to bed, things had calmed down. Rules were in place that there would be no Scene nor Play for the night. Both broke the rules. The girl admited her side of things. She has been dealt with.
 
After telling Dick that I had not even "played" with the girl He stopped and the flirting came to a halt. What happened after all were told to go to bed (under my care at least) is what I am having an issue with.
 
She is NOT a slave. She is a submissive. She has her own quarters. I gave an order she disobeyed. I have dealt with that. That is not an issue.
 
My issue was Dick.
 
After much reading and talking with My clan we have already banned Dick from the house and any future lifestyle gatherings. We all appreciate both sides of everyones comments and have taken precautions.
 
We wish you all peace and love and will no longer be monitoring this post as we have taken care of the issue.
 
Thank you again...
 
Mistress Karasu

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 8:43:25 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
Dear DsCoupleOhio, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In my mind's eye--Trust is earned.  In reading what was posted, I am aware that things race through your mind and emotions are running a bit rapid.
 
We're all reading a cascade of events that happened and the end result is indeed a mess.
 
Others have made wonderful comments in regard to using the mind of a slave through hypnosis. So, I will by-pass that element somewhat.
 
What jumps out into my mind's eye, is that things went on at a rather fast time frame.  In addition, sex has been the entire theme of the encounters.  Having Mr. Dick over, a new Master -- It really was 'striking' that sex was the whole premise of any interactions with your 'clan' and Jane and Dick.  And, I am seeing that Mr. Dick had sex on his mind from the start and would do anything, to get "slave sex."  Much like 'sex on demand' and or "have it your way, like Burger King."
 
Perhaps I am an old fuddy duddy however, possession of a slave may be an ownership but, not always a master make.  So many have come into the lifestyle, under the guise of M/s or D/s and really has been all about kinky sex.  So, in my old fashioned mind, sex is a privilege--not a 'right' and or 'expectation.'  So, it is much like giving the sack of gold per se to the visitor of two prior occassions--hardly enough time to establish trust in my mind's eye.  And, wouldn't even consider such individuals to have sexual liberties so early on in the interactions, regardless if Ms. Jane was a friend since the days she was in kindergarden with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden's classroom.
 
Another thing that jumped out in my mind's eye--communication was lacking, as it was stated in the post; "...We all decided to take a dip in the pool after dinner and things began to get frisky. I made it clear that I had not yet even played with my girl and to be gentile with the playing. Dick seemed to understand that and backed away going back to Jane who was obviously offended by his actions..."  All I could see is the I haven't driven this car yet, so when you drive it--be gentle with it.  In a way, your words offered the suggestion to go play but be gentle.  So, like any horny male--he did.  In addition, you should have noticed Ms. Jane offended--it was obvious.  So, it would have been most kind of you to remove any temptations as to cause further offense.  Because there was an assumption of "understanding" that his backing away, as to let you play a bit with the girl--he can come after you, to which some can take that as you could tweek a nipple and that was play, when done-it was his turn--ravishing her radishes.
Might not been the intent however, the effect is what I see happen with an assumptions as it wasn't clearly established, by saying-- "Mr. Dick--she is sexually off limits to you period until I clear it and will say so clearly."  And then have them orally acknowledge.  Keeps assumptions to a lower level and if the behavior of Mr. Dick was done as posted, then you know you have been 'offended' with justification.
However, with the words used--it had dual meaning and it wasn't clear as to the 'intent.'  So, I do understand why Mr. Dick made the assumption as he was sexually geared throughout your whole interactions.
 
In addition, I am not pleased reading that the command was to get rest.  Now, rest in my mind's eye is not having sex but--sleep, as in sawing wood with a lot of snags.  But, your protocols are yours so, I don't know if it holds the same value as mine.
 
In summary, it is very important to choose words, as to hold weight and value as to it's meaning and intent.  Being vague as to fall to either side in it's meaning, is unfair.  Allowing words to allow assumptions which behavior towards the lad is allowed and the lass was under the same standard, invites issues.  So, somebody can come later and go either way-pro or con, after the fact.  Being the lass was new, even more clear the commands must be.  That would be rest means rest and nobody, is to counter that command but the house dominants--not the guests.  Guests should also have the attitude and behavior that invitation does not mean free license to disrespect you, your house and or your possessions be it slave or your fine china.  Some individuals think being a master/mistress is a license to be rude in other's homes and not act as guests.  So, perhaps guests should learn that coming to your home does not mean--immediate sex toys for use and abuse.
 
Only you can decide how your "house" reputation will be seen.  But, for me, I wish my guests to get to know me and my slaves as human beings first, before they have any sensual contacts with them and then months down the road, would any sexual interactions be considered.  Again--trust is earned.  Respect is earned.  Being on my guest list is earned.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration with a tad of wit,
Lady Hugs
 
 

(in reply to DsCoupleOhio)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 11:37:36 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

The first thing that came to my mind was that this "girl" who was so horribly used by the alleged dominant who was actually just a masquerading horndog who needs to be dumped on his ass rather quickly... this "girl" has a mouth.  Why didn't she use it?  Why did she not say no?  If the OP was accurate, this girl knew her alleged mistress didn't want him playing with her, so why didn't she open her mouth and tell the guy where to step off? 
 
Sounds more to me like the girl had a mutual attraction for old Dick, and decided to have herself a good time, and to hell with anyone else's feelings.

That was the point that I made and got jumped on.  They were in a private HOME, not some major BDSM event, or across the country.  It all happened in someone's house.  I have a hard time believing that this goings-on in the living room wasn't heard......not a sound.....

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Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 11:40:32 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
NP.  Having one of our contestants for Mr World Leather this year teaching a platform of rape awareness as a result of a string of gay rapes and assaults that led to the murder of Londoner Adrian Exley in Lynn, MA, I'm (unfortunately) acutely aware of the issues that happen for a victim and their community (and the lifestyle they're all a part of.)  It's sad that folks do bad things under the guise of BDSM (again, we don't know that's actually what happened here.)

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to IndigoDadesi)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 11:45:45 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DsCoupleOhio

I would like to first and formost thank Y/you all for Y/your input.. there is much that was left out of this that now I see should have been put to the story not wanting to ruin others names... As for Me and My Clan.. We are VERY MUCH in order. The training was relaxed due to the people involved... It would be like inviting Y/your best friends over for dinner and having this break out... I do know the people who came over and until this point trusted them implicitely.. As for what the submissive wanted.. She admited it was something she did infact agree to and thus since posted was repremanded on her behavior. Again, she was still learning and the other couple was there to "help" by creating a "public scene atmosphere" in what should have been the safety of our home.
 
It was not the fact she had sexual relations. It was more the fact of protocol. I do not need opinions on "Dick or My girl's" sex life...only where to stand with Dick and if this is an offence punishable by dismissal...
 
Thank Y/you

Regardless of whether she did it consensually or not, YOU agreed for him to play with her and did not explicitly set parameters OR restrict play with your brand new slave. I don't care if it's your twin sister, your mother or your daughter doing the scene; the slave is YOUR property and pledged responsibility.  From my recollection, you said you only knew this fellow by proxy (through this slave who is your friend) and you had no actual knowledge of his play style, his capabilities or his ethics.  That's a far cry from someone who is a trusted dominant within your inner circle in my book.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to DsCoupleOhio)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 11:49:13 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DsCoupleOhio

The blame has rested on Our shoulders..We are well aware where We went wrong.. Remember when reading...this is an EXTREMELY Shortened version. By the time We went to bed, things had calmed down. Rules were in place that there would be no Scene nor Play for the night. Both broke the rules. The girl admited her side of things. She has been dealt with.

Wouldn't this all have been a good thing to tell the rest of us while soliciting our feedback?!?!?!??!  You presented an entirely different situation to us in the OP. 

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to DsCoupleOhio)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: What to do when protocol is breached by another Mas... - 8/9/2006 11:59:52 PM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DsCoupleOhio

The blame has rested on Our shoulders..We are well aware where We went wrong.. Remember when reading...this is an EXTREMELY Shortened version. By the time We went to bed, things had calmed down. Rules were in place that there would be no Scene nor Play for the night. Both broke the rules. The girl admited her side of things. She has been dealt with.


In this case, she would definitely be gone.  She broke the rules this early on in training?  How can you trust that it won't happen again? 

Owned or not, cheating is still cheating, and she cheat.  And for us, if we have to micromanage to prevent a pet of ours from cheating then they aren't going to be a pet of ours.  If we can't trust him, then he's gone (thus the issue with our most recent failure).  The fact that she went along with what he wanted, without gaining your permission (because she knew if she asked she wouldn't get it - as you had already told her 'no'), means that she has a total disreguard for you and your rules ... she'd have been out on her ass as soon as we found that out ...

At least you have learned your lesson about the guy.  Hopefully your friend has as well.

(in reply to DsCoupleOhio)
Profile   Post #: 52
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