RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (Full Version)

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NorthernGent -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 6:12:29 AM)

That's nice. Just completely swerve facts put before you and respond with a) the resource is finite (which is not the same as saying resources are dwindling) b) I can't read my own links? c) a quote from Mr Hayes (who obviously is the sole authority on oil) who says one day oil will run out - when? tomorrow or 5061?

And, I didn't call you a liar. I said your statement was incorrect. I shouldn't need to point this out to you but the two are not one and the same.

You strike me as a very angry individual desperate to score a few points. Relax a little and when facts are put before you a wise man would consider them not swerve them. For example, the very post before yours tells you that the massive Kashagan oilfield was never considered to hold oil. One of quite a few estimates where the experts have been wrong. Your up-to-date sole argument seems to be that the resource is finite but this is not the same as your original statement that resources are dwindling.

Regards




SirKenin -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 6:38:46 AM)

DUDE.  Holy shit.  Think about it.  You are the most annoying person I have ever run across.  Fuck.

There is a finite supply of oil in the ground.  This is a fact.  The oil takes millions of years to replenish itself.  This is a fact.  The world is using up the oil as fast as it can be drilled out of the ground.  This is a fact.  This means, because there is a finite supply of oil and we are drillling at alarming rates, resources, whether discovered or undiscovered, are dwindling.  This is a fact.

It does not matter a damn what has and has not been discovered as far as deposits.  What matters is that discovered, and undiscovered, there is only so much under the ground.  This is a fact.  Our demand for oil, according to your link which you never even fucking read is increasing every year.

So what is the obvious conclusion?  Eventually THE OIL WILL RUN OUT.  Do we know when?  No.  At current estimates it will be in 40 years.  However, with new discoveries it could be a lot longer than that..

BUT THE OIL WILL RUN OUT and you have presented sweet fuck all to the contrary.

Sheeesh.  Sorry, but you annoy me.




SirKenin -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 6:46:55 AM)

Anyways Northern, with all due respect I am done talking to you.  I find you irritate Me and I have enough to deal with without getting upset by someone that pretty much calls Me a liar and then does not bring one shred of evidence to the table to prove it.  Then you have the balls to demand My respect.  Not likely guy.  No offence...but I have had enough.  I do not need to get in trouble because someone is pissing Me off.  Better to walk away.




philosophy -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 6:48:05 AM)

"DUDE.  Holy shit.  Think about it.  You are the most annoying person I have ever run across.  Fuck."

....damn, and i was hoping for that honour :)




SirKenin -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 6:49:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"DUDE.  Holy shit.  Think about it.  You are the most annoying person I have ever run across.  Fuck."

....damn, and i was hoping for that honour :)


Would you have a problem with being "Second in Command"?  lol   [8D]




MasterBlaster82 -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 6:53:35 AM)

Actually...ummmmhmmmm I am the most annoying person in the galaxy lol but what a hell....someone gotta be the most annoying on Earth,no?




NorthernGent -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 6:57:56 AM)

I can see you are a man of reason, manners, consideration and wisdom so no need to apologise.

From the Collins English dictionary: "dwindle - to grow less in size, strength or number".

Your original post was that oil is dwindling. You've now changed to say the oil will run out one day. Can you see from the above definition of dwindle how you have changed your tune? Oil reserves and supply is at present increasing not dwindling even though one day in the distant future it is logical that reserves will run out.

To say the oil will run out one day is no major revelation and no one is arguing to the contrary. I am disagreeing with your statement that oil reserves are at this moment time dwindling and I have presented facts as to why they are not.

Regards

Regards




philosophy -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 7:02:08 AM)

"Would you have a problem with being "Second in Command"?  lol   [8D] "

.....naww, but thanks for the offer...i shall have to find someone else to whom i can be the most annoying person in the world :)




MyMasterStephen -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 7:21:42 AM)

What a foolish assertion to make...  of course the oil reserves are dwindling.  A reserve such as fossil fuels certainly isn't increasing as we draw more and more of it out of the ground.  So yes, the reserve is dwindling - and the fact that the supply is increasing means that the reserve is dwindling at an increasing rate.




NorthernGent -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 7:32:18 AM)

Now that is a man on the edge and grimly hanging on by his finger-nails. Relax. Life is too short. As for the upsetting you bit I'll go easy on you next time - didn't realise you are of such a nervous disposition. I normally get upset when the bills come through the letter-box and next door's dog is barking at 4 in the morning not when someone tells me I've made an incorrect statement - strange old world I suppose.

As for being the most annoying man on the planet. That is quite probably true and it is an award that is dear to me. However, you have spent every thread I have posted on replying to my posts desperately seeking some attention. Just look back through the threads and if it isn't clear to you now it will be. So, here we have it - a conversation between the most annoying man on the planet and the stalker of the most annoying man on the planet.

Regards





NorthernGent -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 7:42:44 AM)

You have taken the comment out of the context we are discussing. The assertion was that we have 8 years or so to go and then no more oil. However, oilfields that were never considered to hold oil are being discovered meaning that forecasts based on today's oilfields are flawed. There is also ample evidence of forecasts being incorrect (some have been posted).

No one is doubting that one day the oil will run out, the disagreement is over when.

Regards




LadyEllen -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 10:52:51 AM)

I would just like to say, in order to clear up any confusion, that Gent absolutely, completely and unchallengeably IS the most annoying man on these fora. Sometimes because he is soooo wrong - and sometimes because he's right!

However, that is part of his charm.
E

PS - just to show no hard feelings that you blew me out on that run in the park.....!





MasDom -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 11:59:25 AM)

[:D]Makes an electric moter cycle and tries to out run the cops. [:(][:'(] damn gasoline.[:D]yeah tazers...




NorthernGent -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 1:54:23 PM)

LadyE, thanks for the kind words, completely accurate - I'm very annoying because I'm right 99% of the time and only wrong 1% of the time. Just one of those things I have to cope with.

The little stretch in the park - the stick brought reality crashing through my windows so it was always doomed to failure :-)




SirKenin -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 2:29:20 PM)

Ok.  That is too much.  Even for Me.  Fuck.  The guy twists My words, gets all pedantic about the whole damn thing and starts an argument, does not read his own damn links, changes his story three times in two pages and he thinks he is all that and a bag of chips.  Un fucking believable.

Did I say 8 years? NO!!  I said 40.  That is what the current surveys tell you.  The guy does not present one link to back up his line of bullshit.  He calls Me a liar when I told him that stocks are depleting.  We proved to him that he is wrong.  He changes his fucking story.  We prove him wrong, and he changes his story again, telling us that in reality it is not that they are depleting, but the argument is how long until they do.

And he is probably sitting there with a stunned look on his face wondering where this is all coming from.  Need I quote his posts in the last two pages anyone?  Or did everyone see it for themselves?  99% right?  I have not seen this guy right on one damn thing yet, including that equal opportunity line of crap.




LadyEllen -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 2:35:15 PM)

Gent - but that would have to mean you post 99 times on other fora for every 1 post on here? LOL! (I'm so naughty!)
E




Dauric -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/15/2006 2:36:46 PM)

A Zen Arbiter heard a disagreement between two men. When the first had finished his case the arbiter said "You're right, you're right."

The second man was outraged and exclaimed "You have'nt heard my side of it." to which he launched in to his arguments, after which the Arbiter replied "You're right, you're right."

The scribe who was taking notes looked perplexed and said "They can't both be right!" the Arbiter looked to the scribe and said "You're right, you're right."

Lesson: It's all a matter of perspective.
---------

NorthernGent  is talking about "Available Reserves." that is to say the oil reserves that we have the technology to get at. As technology advances we have the capability to extract and refine more oil from more new sources than we had the capability to get at before. There's a research project in Colotrado where they are working on efficient methods of extracting oil from oil-shale. Other projects are re-visiting old oil sites to apply modern technology to wells that were once thought to be dried up.

Kenin and Stephen are talking about "Total Reserves", the fact that there is a finite supply of oil, peroiod. This is also true, there is no way to make more oil once the oil that has been used has been used up. All the technological advances in the world will not help you extract more oil once the "Total Reserves" quantity has been used. Even if you never hit the exact "Total Reserves" amount (which is in question) ther are some reserves that simply cannot be used. That oil shale project I was mentioning above, well they're having problems because in order to spend economically less energy than they would get from the extracted oil they have to break the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

The controversy comes from one side saying "There's no crisis we are finding new oil wells all the time and new technology is letting us get more oil from old wells. There's no sign of difficulty with Available Reserves." The other side says "Great, but we still can't rely on that forever, when the Total Reserves run out we're going to need something to replace out current oil-based technologies."

I'm in the latter camp, but for an argument that people seem to keep missing: Swiching infrastructures takes time. While research and development, as well as infrastructure replacement is taking place oil will continue to be burned. Many people may not be able to replace their current cars, or even small to moderately-sized business corporate fleets in short order simply as a matter of money. Sure all the automakers could switch over tomorrow, but any car built today will be functional for 20+ years. I plan on driving my current, 2000, vehicle for another 14 at least. You're going to advocate that these changes take place when we have 10 years of oil left? 5 years with the hope of finding 15 more in "Availalble Reserves"?

I say that we fund the R&D and the prodction of alternate energy sources, and really put it out there for people to get their hands on. No lease and recall programs, sell the bloody electric cars. Waiting longer will only reduce the elasticity of time in dealing with the problem.

Besides, It's the 21'st century; I was promised a flying electric car. Where's my flying electric car!

But hey, that's just my $0.02.

Dauric.




NorthernGent -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/16/2006 4:59:05 AM)

Dauric,

Of course reserves are finite. I never said anything to the contrary. Everything I have said on here has been to point out that throughout the last 60 years we have constantly underestimated (quite possibly deliberately) the amount of oil we have available to us - I have provided examples. Oil is not running out at the rate some would have us believe. Oil production is not increasing at particularly high rates and we are discovering large oil fields where it was previously thought oil didn't exist - again, examples provided. Add to this the fact that we can't predict technological development and the conclusion is we can't put a date on when oil will run out but it will not be in the near future.

LadyEllen,

You admit I've been right once in my life. I'll take that as a victory of sorts :-) Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

Regards




SirKenin -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/16/2006 5:45:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Dauric,

Of course reserves are finite. I never said anything to the contrary.
Regards


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The facts are that 1) Oil supply is increasing 2


Supply is either finite or increasing.  What is in the ground is in the ground.  The only thing that will change is how much we discover. 




LadyEllen -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/16/2006 6:36:46 AM)

Hi All

Dont like to step into this one, but it seems there is some confusion over what is being said because of the choice of words; I think what Gent is trying to say is

1) yes, of course the reserves are finite
2) we dont know how finite they are, because we keep discovering more and have no idea how much there could be
3) the rate of extraction, the oil we know about and the overall amount there is to extract are three different things
4) extracting the oil obviously reduces the amount there is, whether there is just what we know about or a whole lot more
5) the present rate of extraction may render known supplies unviable in the near future, but we dont know how much there really is to extract, since it is possible there is more oil out there we dont yet know about
6) that we are discovering more oil means that the amount we can extract (the supply) is increasing, even though that extraction must necessarily reduce the overall amount of oil there is

Hope this helps
E





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