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Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 4:56:16 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Nobel winner Grass served in Nazi SS

BERLIN - Nobel prize-winning German author Günter Grass has admitted for the first time that he served in the Waffen-SS, Adolf Hitler's elite Nazi troops.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14307309

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots
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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 5:30:18 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		In the immortal words of Artie Johnson ...

Verrrrrrrrrrrry interestink.

Gonna have to reread The Tin Drum and will definitely have to read his new book. Writing is certainly cathartic but I'm not sure that I buy the excuse joining the army to "get away from home". I wonder if the German army intentionally left out the part about joining the Nazi regime or if Grass is trying to sugar coat his involvement.

< Message edited by MmakeMme -- 8/11/2006 5:31:21 PM >

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Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 5:39:30 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Well were ALL Nazis bad? I mean, should ALL Nazis be painted with the same brush? Some parts of Mein Kampf are just taken out of context. Sure, a percentage of Nazis did do bad things and terrorized Europe but can we assume that all were terrorists? Mr Grass is a fine author, he followed his leaders dogma religiously. If the US didn't brutally bomb his homeland and kill thousands of Germany's civilians, Mr Grass would be not only a Nobel Prize winner, but elder Statesman of a world living under the dogma of his Fuhrer.

And as a bonus - NO ISRAEL!

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 5:46:02 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline 		I'm really hoping that was humor (and I'm confident it was...I think) because I've read your stuff before and it was not only well written...but well recieved (I'm thinking if this was your effort at satire...we should talk).

< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 8/11/2006 5:47:21 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 5:48:24 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		Add a couple of goose steps and a black armband and you're really gonna start scarin' me.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 5:49:09 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

I'm really hoping that was humor (and I'm confident it was...I think) because I've read your stuff before and it was not only well written...but well recieved (I'm thinking if this was your effort at satire...we should talk).


Put it in the "Producers" category, with a tinge of South Park, and a large pinch of sarcasm.

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 5:49:36 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Merc is no Nazi. A shit stirrer at times *big grin*, but not a Nazi. Right?? lol

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MmakeMme)
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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 5:52:26 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

I'm really hoping that was humor (and I'm confident it was...I think) because I've read your stuff before and it was not only well written...but well recieved (I'm thinking if this was your effort at satire...we should talk).


Put it in the "Producers" category, with a tinge of South Park, and a large pinch of sarcasm.


Cartman does a mean Hitler impression.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 8:36:05 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

I'm really hoping that was humor (and I'm confident it was...I think) because I've read your stuff before and it was not only well written...but well recieved (I'm thinking if this was your effort at satire...we should talk).


Put it in the "Producers" category, with a tinge of South Park, and a large pinch of sarcasm.


I'm pretty sure that sarcasm is against the TOS.....

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 9:13:47 PM   
MistressTexas


Posts: 425
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		The new pope also used to be a nazi.... Now that one messes up my head a bit.

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 10:17:39 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		awww Merc, now you are just trollin'. 

...I hope.

BUT hey, if you aren't...I mean if you are REALLY serious...I have some VERY BIG, VERY STRONG friends who are really active in human rights and leather issues in SanFran...where you and beth are headed yes?  They'd love to engage you in a debate on this topic while you are there.  And by "engage" I mean forcibly stretch every orifice in your body with beer cans, and by "debate" I mean no lube.

Let me know if you want their address *WINK*

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 11:03:57 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

awww Merc, now you are just trollin'. 

...I hope.

BUT hey, if you aren't...I mean if you are REALLY serious...I have some VERY BIG, VERY STRONG friends who are really active in human rights and leather issues in SanFran...where you and beth are headed yes?  They'd love to engage you in a debate on this topic while you are there.  And by "engage" I mean forcibly stretch every orifice in your body with beer cans, and by "debate" I mean no lube.

Let me know if you want their address *WINK*

E.


E,
I got to tell you, I'm enjoying the doubt! I love stringing you guys on! I'd never get taken seriously with that quote back in NYC. You know, I started and deleted that post 3 times. But finally I told beth I couldn't help myself. "Evil Merc" took control of the keyboard and it just came out!

We'll be in SF soon! If this gets us meeting more great new people from CM it was worth the posting, lube or no lube!

(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/11/2006 11:06:31 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

We'll be in SF soon! If this gets us meeting more great new people from CM it was worth the posting, lube or no lube!


Wish holly and I could be there.  UH, Merc...BEER CANS....and if you get "cocky" they use those mini Kegs from Japan....

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Grass and the SS - 8/12/2006 1:26:20 AM   
ToServeIsToLive


Posts: 222
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressTexas

The new pope also used to be a nazi.... Now that one messes up my head a bit.


He also has a scary resembalance to the emperor from star wars.

Since Grass wasn't convicted of war crimes (afaik), it's a bit too much to assume he's a horrible person because a lot of people got sucked up into the Nazi regime without knowing what they were getting into; of course, that doesn't excuse the ones that committed atrocities.

(in reply to MistressTexas)
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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/12/2006 1:39:02 AM   
captiveplatypus


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		hating him for being in the nazi army and still disagreeing with it would be like hating our US troops for being in the Iraq war if they, and you, did not agree with it. 

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/12/2006 2:25:53 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		This is an example of how people get swept up in the big waves of things.
I have questioned what I would have done in those times. It could have come down to follow orders or bullet in the head.
What do you do when your country and people go so far off ?
In that position I think I would have deserted. What a choice. Coward and enemy to your country. But true to your conscience.
I imagine he didn't believe what was happening, till it was too late.

But I can't know what went on in his mind and heart. Was he a coward all round? Lost in the insanity without a way out?

I like to think I would have escaped to sanity. And done no harm. But luckily I wasn't there. The hard choices in my life are insignificant by comparison.

I can look at his work since then and have an idea of his atonement. and his admittinance counts.

I hope I never face those choices.

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/12/2006 2:37:56 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Me either, Kedi.
 
The one thing that made me stop and go "Hmm..." in the article on Grass was that he "volunteered towards the end of the war". I wonder what the circumstances were? Did the Germans see the writing on the wall by then? Was it truly just to "get away" from his family?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Kedikat)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Grass and the SS - 8/12/2006 2:45:12 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Me either, Kedi.
 
The one thing that made me stop and go "Hmm..." in the article on Grass was that he "volunteered towards the end of the war". I wonder what the circumstances were? Did the Germans see the writing on the wall by then? Was it truly just to "get away" from his family?


I think he would have been about 17 or 18? Hard to calculate. Teen angst in Nazi germany? Holy crap. Didn't even think about that aspect.

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/12/2006 2:48:09 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		My country right or wrong. How many people would have done differently? Very very few, especially with all the patriotism and flag waving and accusing people of being anti their country should they even pose pertinent questions, nowadays. You just have to look on CM and people have lost their critical faculties when it comes to violence and their country and there isn't even a wave of patriotism to sweep them up on, just the normal daily government propaganda. Yep, I think most people can't see government propaganda for what it is and why most people would commit all sorts of crimes in the names of their country that in normal everyday life they would think they were incapable of. 

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RE: Grass and the SS - 8/12/2006 3:51:32 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Bet I know how to bring a few Laser guided bombs my way.. Why did so many Yanks do so many wicked things in Viet Nam. The whole enterprise was wicked as far as I can see. Surely you all agree?

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