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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 7:08:46 AM   
WhipTheHip


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine
Quite simpy put:  I believe in God. I believe in being good. 
What I do NOT believe in is what MAN has done in the name of God. 


1. If there was a God, he would give children diseases that cause them to
  slowly die in agony.

2. If there is a God who is our parent, and we are His children, then He is
   guilty of child abuse. Parents do all they can to protect their children.

3.  Man are taught to do evil in the name of God because that is what
    many religions teach like Wahhabism and Christianity.  Belief in
    God almost always comes with blind faith in some dogma.  As
    soon as humans give up their reason to follow God, they can be
    encouraged to do just about anything.




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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 7:53:04 AM   
LadyEllen


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Hi Popeye - someone already answered that they are more likely Moonies (or even more likely Krishna Conciousness people) at the airport. Quite how to handle Buddhist missionaries I dont know - never had them here and I'm not so sure they would be so arrogant as to propose converting you anyway - to my mind Buddhism seems something one finds upon seeking, unless one is born into a Buddhist culture.

At the risk of accusations that I am evangelising - Asatru, the heathen Germanic religion is the only one for me. It doesnt evangelise and doesnt need to, as like Judaism, Hinduism and Shinto its an ethnic religion - so you can take it or leave it, though generally in our culture those not adhering to some other formalised religion find themselves living as if they were Asatru anyway.

Its an open religion in many ways - by which I dont mean that it has no moral and ethical standards - having a multitude of deities it offers something to everyone, and everyone has a place within it. It has a multitude of expressions too, each catering for the differing needs of its followers. Even we "sicko perverts" have a place within it, and are not condemned according to someone else's (foreign) standards.

And best of all, unlike the likes of Wicca, it is a genuine religion - a state religion in Iceland, which although interrupted by Bible peddlers has remained unbroken for millennia. If we didnt have Christianity, there would be no reason for many of the debates on here and little cause for much of the warfare and suffering of the more recent benighted centuries, as we would have continued in this tradition to this day. And we wouldnt have to put up with fundy bigots!
E

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 8:06:50 AM   
Sab


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What you will probably find is that these people have repressed their need to be real and part of this life. You can imagine the preacher flogging one of his flock because 'they need to be cleansed!' Odd bunch of nutters! 

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 9:15:49 AM   
NastyDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

...Aren't the Buddists the ones at the airports bumming money?



quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Hi Popeye - someone already answered that they are more likely Moonies (or even more likely Krishna Conciousness people) at the airport....



It was the Hari Krishnas (usually wearng a jesus suit and sandals) who would chase you through the airport with an extended flower of peace... all for a mere donation of course.

Many movies used a parody of them, a funny one was ''Airport (or Airport 75)''... another flick, "Miami Blues" w/Alec Baldwin showed a way to deal with them... he shook the hand on the Karishna, and broke/dislocated the Karishna's thumb... so bad the Karishna was carted off to the hospital in shock, later dying from it.

Whether pimping young men in white shirts/ties to your home, flower sellers at your airports, or whores on your streets... a pimp is a pimp, their fleet of whures are a fleet of whures... irregardless of their religion!

To me it seems the OP is a whureless pimp looking for a hand... 



(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 9:19:42 AM   
Aine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine
Quite simpy put:  I believe in God. I believe in being good. 
What I do NOT believe in is what MAN has done in the name of God. 


1. If there was a God, he would give children diseases that cause them to
slowly die in agony.

2. If there is a God who is our parent, and we are His children, then He is
  guilty of child abuse. Parents do all they can to protect their children.

3.  Man are taught to do evil in the name of God because that is what
   many religions teach like Wahhabism and Christianity.  Belief in
   God almost always comes with blind faith in some dogma.  As
   soon as humans give up their reason to follow God, they can be
   encouraged to do just about anything.






I understand that you don't believe.  But here you are doing everything in your power to naysay MY beliefs.  Telling me that I am basically WRONG for believing in God.  We could sit here all day arguing this point as to Why I believe and the level of my belief and the differences in my beliefs as to those of other so-called "Christians".  That particular part is moot at this point.

My point right now is that you are being almost as biggoted as those you are speaking out against. 

I appreciate your point of view, by my opinion on it is just that:  That you are pushing your opinion,or what looks more like your -belief- that believing in God is just plain wrong on those of us that do.  I once was a non-believer. Hell, I still have my doubts at times.  But am I a bad person for having my faith in something?  Am I a bad person for calling myself a Christian despite all that those in the past have done?  Those people are not me, I have not done those things, nor would I ever do those things.

Is it bad to call myself an American despite our OWN bad reputation?  Same line of thought, if you ask me.


_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 9:27:13 AM   
popeye1250


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Lady Ellen, what if a Pagan shows up at my door collecting money and trying to convert me?
Should I get out the base ball bat and let them have it?
They don't seem to have any churchs in the phone book.
And those "Goths" wearing all the scary makeup!
I see them in the Mall a lot all dressed in black.
This is something I really do; anytime I see a "Goth" I'll say; Hey! Trick or Treat!"
They get PISSED! lolol

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 8/15/2006 9:28:32 AM >

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 9:37:44 AM   
LadyEllen


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Hi Popeye

No, we're not goths - some are, but most of us are pretty normal (well by the standards here LOL!) people. Neither do we have churches - the christians stole all of our holy places to build their churches on, as well as attempting cultural genocide on us.

I wouldnt bother with the baseball bat if heathens show up at the door - though begging is not something endorsed by Asatru. If they do show up then bring a gun and you have my full permission to shoot them as worthless pieces of trash unworthy of Asatru.

If Wicca type pagans turn up, then by all means have at them with the bat. They give us a bad name.

E

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 12:44:10 PM   
WhipTheHip


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Why don't you like Wiccans?

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 12:51:53 PM   
BrutalAntipathy


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It does seem at first glance that polytheistic religions are less violent and intolerant than monotheists, but the Norse, Celts, and Romans were not exactly peaceful neighbors. I am of the opinion that if a group should begin worshiping dirty sweatsocks, and that group later gain political power, they will burn at the stake people wearing clean socks.
 
Can't really blame this on religion, though religion does provide a fertile ground for it. I think it is just human nature to try and impose upon others our own sense of what is right.

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 12:54:04 PM   
IndigoDadesi


Posts: 185
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Different strokes? Does that mean those people are the "anti-strokers"

On the side: Ive always known I was exploiting my sexual powers. They make it out to bad thing, thats weird.


< Message edited by IndigoDadesi -- 8/15/2006 12:55:29 PM >


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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 1:05:46 PM   
LadyEllen


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why dont I like Wiccans? Basically because as I said, they give us a bad name. As soon as the word pagan is uttered, everyone thinks Wicca, and from that to thinking that we're those people who dance around fires naked, give ourselves silly names and titles from fantasy fiction, hug trees and love the earth and so on.

I wouldnt mind so much, but Asatru is the direct descendant of a genuine folk religion of pre-christian times, whereas Wicca is a concoction of confused sources from the classical world combined with dreamy visions of some ancient utopian state, all mixed up in the post war period by people more interested in justifying escape from the real world, rather than living in it.

To make an analogy, Wicca is similar to a morphine injection - it clouds the mind and makes everything seem good, it lives in a dream world of fluffy bunnies - it offers nothing for real life. Asatru is like total real life sobriety - seeing the world as it is in its wonder and horror, and providing a basis from which to deal with it.

I could go on.
E

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 1:15:55 PM   
IndigoDadesi


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I always wonder what the basis is of someone saying that their religion is better than someone elses. In your opinion, I guess it must be, but I can imagine that someone else can think that your religion is just as silly.

_____________________________

'"Where do we go when we die?" asks Billy. "I don't know. Where are we now?" is the gypsy's reply.'

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 1:26:53 PM   
LadyEllen


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Hi Indigo - totally accept your point, but I've spent twenty years studying religions and comparing them. All real religions have the same agenda at their heart, Asatru being no exception. Wicca meanwhile, does not share this common agenda. All real religions have a pedigree, even revelatory ones like Christianity have a pedigree on which they are based (Judaism in that case). Wicca does not have any pedigree or basis older than sixty years.

Given that the truth is the truth is the truth, however its dressed up and however badly some behave in the name of their expression of it, all religions should share it - and real religions, Asatru included, do. Equally, given that the truth is as it was and as it will be, Wicca cannot claim to have some special status as offering a new truth - it must either have the truth, or it doesnt have it - and therefore it isnt valid.

E

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 1:29:07 PM   
LadyEllen


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And before anyone accuses me of being a bigot or prejudiced against Wicca, I've been there and done it - the experience means this is not bigotry and not prejudicial.
E

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 1:36:19 PM   
popeye1250


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Lady Ellen, ok, if they show up at my door I'll hit them with a rusty shovel!

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 1:46:30 PM   
IndigoDadesi


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In attempt to remain as un-offensive as possible, I still have to say that I disagree.

As I understand it experience is the best way to become prejudice or a bigot of something, after all it is easy to experience something without understanding the benefits of it despite the negative elements involved.

I really dont think any of us are qualified to say whether any religion contains the answer to what someone else seeks on a spiritual level.


_____________________________

'"Where do we go when we die?" asks Billy. "I don't know. Where are we now?" is the gypsy's reply.'

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 3:57:31 PM   
Slipstreme


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quote:


Been Whipped, or, you could say that Jesus was "whipped and beaten too!"
Don't they have guys who "Beat themselves for Jesus?"
I think they call them Flaggilists or something like that.
I never miss an opportunity to mess with the Holy Rollers!


Please don't get me started on the religious puns thing...:P

Jesus was a sadomasochist. He drove people from the temple once, with a whip he made himself (read the bible:P) He was flogged heavily before being crucified, starved himself in the desert. My friend Mike had to point out the similarities between hook suspension and crucifixion (specifically a vertical arms out suspension that is called crucifixion), and we were all told Jesus wanted his disciples to be "fishers of men"

And what got me when I did it, without realizing it, was that I made my prototype Russian knout (a flogging instrument) over Easter weekend: the time we Christian types celebrate the flogging and crucifxion of Christ.

Oh the sacreligious headache! I might not be a very loyal Christian, and may use a lot of Occultic practices, but *groan* :P

quote:


Why'd you say penguin?

I panicked!



Hey, you stole my safeword!

_____________________________

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For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 5:17:36 PM   
WhipTheHip


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
why dont I like Wiccans? Basically because as I said, they give us a bad name. As soon as
the word pagan is uttered, everyone thinks Wicca, and from that to thinking that we're
those people who dance around fires naked, give ourselves silly names and titles
from fantasy fiction, hug trees and love the earth and so on.


And here all this time I thought there were just a group of teenage girls
putting curses on their ex-boy friends.  I just developed a new found
respect for Wicca.  I don't know, it doesn't sound so bad to me.

quote:

I wouldnt mind so much, but Asatru is the direct descendant of a genuine folk religion of pre-christian times, whereas Wicca is a concoction of confused sources from the classical world combined with dreamy visions of some ancient utopian state, all mixed up in the post war period by people more interested in justifying escape from the real world, rather than living in it.


Still doesn't sound too bad to me.

quote:

To make an analogy, Wicca is similar to a morphine injection - it
clouds the mind and makes everything seem good 


Where can I buy it?   I'm ready to shoot it up.   I'd love to find people like this. 

quote:

 it lives in a dream world of fluffy bunnies - it offers nothing for real life.


I don't know, from what you describe it sounds like it offers quite a lot.  Positive
thinking people who love the Earth.  All the positives of herion without the
negatives.

quote:

Asatru is like total real life sobriety


I can only stand just so much sobriety.  I never used recreational drugs,
nor do I smoke or drink.  Okay, I do drink occassionally.  But an intoxicating
relgion sounds appealing to me.
 
Asatru sounds a lot like the way I look at the world now, but dancing naked
in the woods with beautiful females sounds like a lot of fun.

quote:

  seeing the world as it is in its  wonder and horror, and providing a basis
from which to deal with it.   I could go on.  E 


Please do, for the other here.  I will look up Asatru on Wikipedia.
 
I know you can't believe anything you read on Wikipedia.  All the true stuff
is on the discussion page.
 
I don't see why we should follow any religion invented by primitive man
who knew nothing of science.  I don't see why an old religion should
have any more validity than a relatively new religion except for the
fact that it has passed the test of time. 
 
Love,
Michael


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RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 5:21:39 PM   
WhipTheHip


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Ásatrú (Icelandic "Æsir faith") is a new religious movement which is attempting to revive the Norse paganism of the Viking Age - as described in the Eddas - prior to the arrival of Christianity.
Ásatrú was established in the 1960s and early 1970s in Iceland, by the Íslenska Ásatrúarfélagið an organization founded by Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson. Ásatrú is an officially recognized religion by the governments of Iceland (since 1973), Denmark (since 2003) and Norway. The United States government does not officially endorse or recognize any religious group; however, numerous Ásatrú groups have been granted nonprofit religious status going back to the 1970s.
While the term Ásatrú originally referred specifically to the Icelandic adherents of the religion, Germanic neopagan and reconstructionist groups widely identify themselves as Ásatrú, particularly in the USA. In this wider sense, the term Ásatrú is used synonymously with Germanic neopaganism or Germanic paganism, along with the terms Forn Sed, Odinism, Heithni, Heathenry and others.
Terminology
Ásatrú is an Old Norse term consisting of two parts. The first is Ása (genitive of Áss) referring to one of two families of gods in the myths. The second part, trú, literally means "troth" or "faith". Thus, Ásatrú means "faith in the Æsir." The term is the Old Norse/Icelandic translation of Asetro, neologism coined in the context of 19th century romantic nationalism, first used by Edvard Grieg in his 1870 opera Olaf Trygvason. The use of the term Ásatrú for Germanic paganism preceding 19th century revivalist movements is an anachronism. Likewise, use of Ásatrú as a synonym of Germanic Neopaganism, while widespread in the USA, can be misleading. Groups identifying themselves as Ásatrú cover a wide political spectrum, ranging from left-wing environmentalist groups, New Agers, universalists, tribalists, reconstructionists, folkish groups and even neonazi (e.g. Artgemeinschaft) movements.
Members of the Íslenska Ásatrúarfélagið are somewhat unhappy with the semantic widening of the Icelandic term Ásatrú, and would prefer its usage to specifically apply only to reconstructed medieval Norse paganism.
Ásatrúar, sometimes used as a plural in English, is properly the genitive of Ásatrú.
History
Ásatrú originated as a second (or third) revival of Germanic paganism in the 1960s and early 1970s. The Íslenska Ásatrúarfélagið was founded on summer solstice, 1972, and was recognized as an official religion by the Icelandic government in 1973, largely due to the efforts of Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson. At about this time, Stephen McNallen, a former U.S. Army Airborne Ranger, began publishing a newsletter titled The Runestone. He also formed an organization called the Asatru Free Assembly, later renamed the Ásatrú Folk Assembly which is still extant. Else Christensen's Odinism, which is sometimes identified with the term Asatru, originated around the same period. An offshoot of McNallen's group is the Asatru Alliance, headed by Valgard Murray, publisher of the "Vor Tru" newsletter. The Asatru Alliance held its 25th annual "Althing" gathering in 2005.
Ásatrú and related paganist movements are gaining popularity among white inmates in U.S. jails. According to prison authorities and correction experts, it attracts prisoners seeking power, unity and mutual protection, and can be interpreted as encouraging violence in the context of prison gang culture. [1] Michael Lenz was executed by Virginia at Greensville Correctional Center on July 27, 2006 for killing fellow inmate Brent Parker before a makeshift Ásatrú altar. [4] Lenz says he and inmate Jeffrey Remington killed Parker, who was serving a 50-year sentence for a brutal skull-crushing murder, because he was manipulating the group for his own ends and did not respect the faith. According to trial testimony and affidavits, Parker had also repeatedly threatened Lenz and Remington's lives for interefering with his use of the group as a money making scheme. Furthermore, at trial the jury consulted a Bible when deciding whether to sentence Lenz to life or death. [2] Experts say there is nothing in Ásatrú that justifies Lenz's actions. Remington committed suicide on death row in 2004. [5]
Politics
Ásatrú organizations have memberships which span the entire political and spiritual spectrum. Many adherents are solitary practitioners who practice their religion alone with their family or a small local community, and are not involved with organized Ásatrú. Despite the wide divergence of beliefs and politics, the sole common denominator amongst adherents of Ásatrú is the goal of reconstructing and practicing the historical pre-Christian religion of the Eddas.
While Ásatrú is generally a tolerant religion, it is sometimes erroneously identified with neo-Nazi and "white power" organizations which also use Odinist symbols. [3] The three largest American Ásatrú organizations have specifically denounced any association with racist groups.[4] There is actually an antagonistic relationship between many neo-Nazis and the membership of most Ásatrú organizations in the USA, who view "national socialism as an unwanted totalitarian philosophy incompatible with freedom-loving Norse paganism".[5]

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: BIGGOTS AGAINST BDSM - 8/15/2006 5:50:12 PM   
Slipstreme


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Hey, Whip, why don't you leave talking about religion alone, and start talking about BDSM for a change?

For one no one, and I mean NO ONE, Christian, Muslim, Jews, Buddhists, Krishna's, Wiccans, want to have their relgion blasted in front of their face. Religious persecution, even that persecution directed at Christians, is unwelcome persecution.

Yes, Christians committed terrible acts. So have others (even if their acts pale in comparision). Taking pleasure in someone else's pain, controlling the populance by terror and horror, or using religion as a reason to kill, maim, torture, control and destroy are not new concepts to human behaviour. However, you seem to be saying it is the religion (in this case Christianity) not human behaviour, that is at fault.

People need something to believe in, so they choose gods. So be it. Lay off blasting Christianity, and blaming it for the causes of the worlds problems. Even if it is used to justify such acts, it it ultimately the one who practices those acts that is at fault.

And for all you, "messengers of God" out there, *points to above quote* NO ONE likes having their religion blasted, so leave the hatred out of ministry (cause we all know they aren't free of guilt and human nature as anyone else is).

*climbs off soapbox* I'll go back to being an openly sinning blasphemous heretic Christian now and shut up for a while.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Where are the whips already? Im getting a headache with all this religious talk.    

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 100
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