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RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 3:20:46 PM

Bearlee

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From: South Central CO
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Very nice work, behindmirrors.

I'm not at all sure why, as your art differs so, but you make me think of SARK. Do you 'know' her? Visit her website here and be sure to run your mouse all over the page; there are a bunch of fun links to explore! http://www.planetsark.com/

beverly

PS...for a really wonderful lift...go 'meet' SARK! Click the link below and then click the little triangle beneath 'Play!' (on the webpage) to see a short video. Her books are magic!!!

http://www.planetsark.com/studio_meet_sark.htm

< Message edited by Bearlee -- 8/15/2006 3:33:18 PM >

(in reply to behindmirrors)

Post #: 41

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 5:54:48 PM

nighthawk3569

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"I was reading Jane Fonda's autobiography "

Ah, yes! Hanoi Jane...the traitor who gave aid and comfort to the enemies of our servicemen, who were giving their lives so she could have the freedom to betray them. How's that for agony?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 42

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 6:12:34 PM

Bearlee

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From: South Central CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569

Ah, yes! Hanoi Jane...the traitor who gave aid and comfort to the enemies of our servicemen, who were giving their lives so she could have the freedom to betray them. How's that for agony?

Uhhhhhhhhh... don't we sent all kinds of aid to the middle east and other areas where our enemies reside?

(in reply to nighthawk3569)

Post #: 43

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 6:21:08 PM

behindmirrors

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Thank you, Julia and Bearlee. I will check out that link- I'm not familiar with SARK, but I will look at it right now!

behindmirrors.

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 44

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 6:24:54 PM

MsIncognito

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I'm getting to this late and haven't ready any responses, but IMO agony is only beautiful to those who haven't had much of it in their life. To someone who has suffered agony it isn't quite so lovely.

"A tragic life is romantic when it happens to someone else"
~some smart person I can't remember right now

quote:

Do you find beauty in agony?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 45

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 6:33:02 PM

Bearlee

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From: South Central CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: behindmirrors

Thank you, Julia and Bearlee. I will check out that link- I'm not familiar with SARK, but I will look at it right now!

Oh do, behindmirrors... she even has a piece about getting books published!

I hope this helps...

bear

(in reply to behindmirrors)

Post #: 46

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 6:33:11 PM

MsIncognito

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Because some of us seem to have this misguided notion that there is beauty in agony?

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
But why do we seem to grab on to the sad movie or the tragic piece of fiction or the sad song if they have no value and no beauty?

Seriously, though, getting misty or weepy at a movie or a song or a piece of poetry is so not even close to being the same as real, life altering agony it's not even funny.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 8/15/2006 6:36:22 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 47

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 6:46:14 PM

Bearlee

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From: South Central CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

But why do we seem to grab on to the sad movie or the tragic piece of fiction or the sad song if they have no value and no beauty?

Perhaps, because as you said later...we sometimes have trouble crying. I see it as something soooo uncomfortable I avoid it. I've actually heard more than one person say to me 'You (?) cry???' I try very hard not to. I'm afraid when I start, I'll never stop. Occasionally I use movies to hook me into release...crying for the sake of crying; to release tension. Perhaps I use beatings for the same reason, I dunno. Sometimes it's just too much. Lordy, it seems today is just too close to that. Wierd...

But it IS true, julia...when I read books with really well written lines of agony and pain...I find them extraordinarily beautiful. I just don't wanna feel it, personally. <sigh>

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 48

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 8:48:06 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

Because some of us seem to have this misguided notion that there is beauty in agony?

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
But why do we seem to grab on to the sad movie or the tragic piece of fiction or the sad song if they have no value and no beauty?

Seriously, though, getting misty or weepy at a movie or a song or a piece of poetry is so not even close to being the same as real, life altering agony it's not even funny.

Im supposing that you think that you can measure someone else's grief in this world? I wish I had your talent for judging the lives of others..

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MsIncognito)

Post #: 49

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 8:52:51 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

But why do we seem to grab on to the sad movie or the tragic piece of fiction or the sad song if they have no value and no beauty?

Perhaps, because as you said later...we sometimes have trouble crying. I see it as something soooo uncomfortable I avoid it. I've actually heard more than one person say to me 'You (?) cry???' I try very hard not to. I'm afraid when I start, I'll never stop. Occasionally I use movies to hook me into release...crying for the sake of crying; to release tension. Perhaps I use beatings for the same reason, I dunno. Sometimes it's just too much. Lordy, it seems today is just too close to that. Wierd...

But it IS true, julia...when I read books with really well written lines of agony and pain...I find them extraordinarily beautiful. I just don't wanna feel it, personally. <sigh>

I still have trouble letting go when watching a sad movie, once my former dom was aghast because I laughed at a scene I should have cried at. I laugh a lot when I am in pain because I dissociated tears from it. I laugh when I get beaten. When I was at Sinergy's a couple of weeks ago and we watched that movie it was the first time I had cried in front of anyone but my son I think EVER. He has also noticed tears do not come so easily for me. When I was in therapy for PTSD the doc said it was quite common to deflect emotions with humor for people who suffer from this. Interesting.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 50

RE: Agony - 8/15/2006 9:01:27 PM

Bearlee

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julia...I experience the same thing; both suggestions that I suffer from PTSD and that I don't cry easily. A therapist was agast once, when telling him some childhood story...that I was smiling while telling my story. It's part of the curse, I think...

But, we are survivors...we'll do okay if we keep this walk.

beverly

PS... I really think MsI was refering to movies... not your experiences personally. I think she meant while some make you cry...the tears are hardly from agony.
<hugs>

< Message edited by Bearlee -- 8/15/2006 9:07:29 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 51

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 6:35:11 AM

MsIncognito

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Living grief vicariously through books, movies and songs isn't the same as suffering life altering agony. I've done both and I know the difference. The former is really just a self-indulgent act - a way to feel without having to really dig deep and deal with our own issues. It's superficial at best. The latter is not in any way beautiful, romantic or laudable. Those are my opinions, no one else has to agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Im supposing that you think that you can measure someone else's grief in this world? I wish I had your talent for judging the lives of others..

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 52

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 6:37:17 AM

MsIncognito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
PS... I really think MsI was refering to movies... not your experiences personally. I think she meant while some make you cry...the tears are hardly from agony.
<hugs>

That's exactly what I was getting at. I'm glad someone was able to grasp my meaning.

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 53

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 8:27:42 AM

juliaoceania

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Is enjoying a beautiful painting self indulgent? Is the joy of listening to Mozart self indulgent?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MsIncognito)

Post #: 54

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 8:32:34 AM

Homestead

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Agony has the ability to let one see thier core as few other things do.

It strips away our delusions and conceits and lays us open, raw and quivering.

Survive it, and ones come away with a deeper understanding.

(in reply to pqwinny)

Post #: 55

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 8:47:21 AM

philosophy

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"Agony has the ability to let one see thier core as few other things do.

It strips away our delusions and conceits and lays us open, raw and quivering.

Survive it, and ones come away with a deeper understanding."

.........perhaps so, but that doesn't mean that agony is beautiful....just that those who survive gain insight.....some do not survive.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 56

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 8:50:42 AM

Homestead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"Agony has the ability to let one see thier core as few other things do.

It strips away our delusions and conceits and lays us open, raw and quivering.

Survive it, and ones come away with a deeper understanding."

.........perhaps so, but that doesn't mean that agony is beautiful....just that those who survive gain insight.....some do not survive.

I don't place value judgements on processes.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 57

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 8:51:37 AM

Bearlee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Is enjoying a beautiful painting self indulgent? Is the joy of listening to Mozart self indulgent?

LOL Perhaps! I'd say it's a gift we give ourselves...an indulgence, if you will. I think it's self-indulgent of me to, as I have done, watch some sappy movie so that tears will come. I have a hard time crying; it's ugly and messy and painful; but sometimes one just feels the need for release. Well done, yet sappy, movies do it for me. It's a little self-endulgence I allow myself. ...just like listening to music or taking a long hot bath.

beverly

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 58

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 9:04:25 AM

philosophy

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"I don't place value judgements on processes"

i was just answering the op

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 59

RE: Agony - 8/16/2006 10:12:47 AM

MsIncognito

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I (and I suspect many others) can enjoy a beautiful painting or listen to Mozart without it becoming a self-absorbed tear fest. This has nothing to do with AGONY. There are things that may move me (possibly even to tears) but that doesn't equate to AGONY.

To answer your question, yes it is self-indulgent. What purpose does it serve other than for me to get something out of it? If I didn't get something out of it I likely wouldn't do it. I suspect you're taking my words as value judgements rather than as they are intended - the facts as I see them (which, again, no one has to agree with). I visit an art gallery because I enjoy it. I go to the symphony because I enjoy it. I eat ice cream because I enjoy it. These are all self indulgent and I have no plans to stop doing any of them...but if that ice cream moves me to tears I'm not so self absorbed that I'd say it's due to AGONY. Chances are it's just an ice cream headache.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Is enjoying a beautiful painting self indulgent? Is the joy of listening to Mozart self indulgent?

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 8/16/2006 10:20:01 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 60

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