Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

equal rights and submission


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> equal rights and submission Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 4:26:04 PM   
subsa


Posts: 196
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		from the reading i've done on this board i can tell that there are many strong women out there who also happen to be submissive.    i'm curious how you respond to people who see a contradiction between believing in womens rights and still being submissive.  when i've broached the submissive subject with some of my women friends many of them seem to think that by being submissive you somehow give up your rights.   in a sense i do, but only to Master, and only those rights i've agreed to give up. i still believe in things like equal pay for equal work, the right to vote, the right to my own opinion. to me, these things (equal rights and submission) are not mutually exclusive. 
i hope i haven't hit anybodies hot button.  sorry in advance if so...i'm not trying to cause trouble only get some 'brain stimulus' going.     
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 4:51:32 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subsa

...when i've broached the submissive subject with some of my women friends many of them seem to think that by being submissive you somehow give up your rights.   in a sense i do, but only to Master, and only those rights i've agreed to give up. i still believe in things like equal pay for equal work, the right to vote, the right to my own opinion. to me, these things (equal rights and submission) are not mutually exclusive.  


Exactly!  And...you do not 'give up' your rights to your Master...you give them to HIM.  Somehow I see that as different.  The power exchange is something you do with another...not the whole world.
 
I, too, still believe in "...things like equal pay for equal work, the right to vote, the right to my own opinion."  I would agree, what we are discussing is not mutually exclusive. 
 
Interesting post!
 
beverly

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 5:03:01 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		There are threads in the archives that cover my position on equality in the lifestyle. I was ridiculed by many who did not understand my view. It was when I first joined that this discussion was taking place. I was even referred to as submissively inclined, I guess that was because I had the temerity to think myself the equal to all dominants in the fact I am a human being, and I think I am superior in some ways and inferior in other ways. My submission has nothing to do with my value as a human being.

I think this is threatening to some dominants, so it is easier to think I am a wannabe or a bedroom submissive. I do not consider myself one, my Daddy does not think this of me, so the opinion of others does not matter. I only need one that finds me to be submissive because I am only submissive to one.

In my dynamic these things are not even thought of, equality or inequality is not even a factor in our relationship. We bring out what each other is and accept each other. It is not about authority, and my Dom is not an authoritarian in his approach with me. It is a rather new dynamic, but I do not see this as an issue for us. Either we meet each other's needs or we don't. I may not want to submit all the time, but I always desire to be his submissive. It is not about authority or equality. It is power exchange. I give him something when I submit, he reflects energy back at me. Without an exchange I would lose energy and eventually have nothing to give.

I also do not really understand what 24-7 means. I know that when I am in his presense and he pulls his rake out (inside joke) I immediately become deferential to him. On the phone the same thing happens. It is the way we function. It is how we are happy. Recently on the boards I was asked why I submit if I am strong and have as good of judgment as my Daddy. I answered, "Because I want to". When I mentioned this to my Daddy he asked, "What did you respond?", and when I told him, he said.. "That was the perfect response".

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 5:24:34 PM   
captiveplatypus


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		This is the way I see it.  If I pull my own weight, and my significant pulls his own, and our income is equal, then chores around the house should always be as equal.  If he is bringing home much more than I am monetarily, or works longer hours, well then things are different.  Being submissive does not mean you are a doormat, and I HATE seeing women say that men are better than women.  Seriously, I want to punch their lights out, but their domineering men probably already do it for me, and the little slut takes it because she has no self worth.

When I submit to a man it is because I am so smitten that I simply can't help but want to be kneeling at his feet with every free moment I have to show him how much I love him.  In order to get me so smitten, that Master will have to treat me with the respect and adoration I deserve.  My submission is given out of love and adoration, not because I think that I am less than him.  When my heart and attention are captured so, that is when my true submissiveness comes to the surface, and I crave and want to please them in any way I am capable and that they desire.

I fully understand and expect some "Masters" to tell me I'm a pretender or fake for doing so.  I know ahead of time they are not worth my time or concern, as I am pretty sure what I will and will not accept as far as my treatment goes.  Although I will admit to having self depricating thoughts, having bouts of depression, and low self esteem in my past (hey I'm honest!) deep down I know what I am worth, which is a lot more than a lot of so called "Men" out there.

< Message edited by captiveplatypus -- 8/14/2006 5:26:21 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 5:30:32 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Being a stong woman, a feminist and expecting certain rights doesn't mean you can't be submissive or a slave...it means you acknowledge and revel in the fact that you have the choice to live your life the way that fulfills YOU the most. YOU get to choose if you wish those rights to be equal with your partner's. The downside of this is that you MUST be strong in order to know that you are giving up your rights by your own free will, not because you are not worthy enough to have them in the first place.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 6:22:40 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		There is no contradiction.

There is nothing I am limited to choosing for myself based on my physical sex.

Including the choice to become owned property.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 7:38:51 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I apologize for such a short answer, but the others above seem to be covering the bases quite well.

Said another way, equal rights is a 'societal' issue that you might believe in (or not) in the greater scheme of our collective lives.  You believe in something, in this case equal rights, on the macro level.

Submission, however, is a 'personal' issue.  You believe in this, as it relates to you personally, on the micro level.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 7:49:32 PM   
Dauric


Posts: 254
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline 		Ditto, Ditto, Ditto,.....

Equal rights are all about everyone having the ability to make their own choice.

A person chooses Sub/Dom/Switch or 'Nilla. Their reasons will certanly vary but no-one is going to tell you which you are. It's your right, and responsibiluity, to make that choice for yourself.

$0.02,

Dauric.

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/14/2006 11:37:20 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subsa

from the reading i've done on this board i can tell that there are many strong women out there who also happen to be submissive.    i'm curious how you respond to people who see a contradiction between believing in womens rights and still being submissive.  when i've broached the submissive subject with some of my women friends many of them seem to think that by being submissive you somehow give up your rights.   in a sense i do, but only to Master, and only those rights i've agreed to give up. i still believe in things like equal pay for equal work, the right to vote, the right to my own opinion. to me, these things (equal rights and submission) are not mutually exclusive.  
 


I make no attempt to explain. That is probably why the conversations don't take place. It is merely a personal decision that reflects who I am and what I desire from my partner. When you understand that it is impossible to exist in society without a power dynamic that we all participate in through one way or another, discussions of this nature quickly fizzle.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/15/2006 12:30:36 AM   
formenteralady


Posts: 76
Joined: 8/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dauric

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto,.....

Equal rights are all about everyone having the ability to make their own choice.

A person chooses Sub/Dom/Switch or 'Nilla. Their reasons will certanly vary but no-one is going to tell you which you are. It's your right, and responsibiluity, to make that choice for yourself.

$0.02,

Dauric.


I agree. 
Femanism is about the right to make choices.
For it to work a woman has to have the right to make any choice, be it sex slave, or high powered corporate lawyer, and with out that right to choose the whole womens right movement really was for nothing.

(in reply to Dauric)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/20/2006 8:25:45 PM   
classykindasassy


Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline 		My response is like this:

There are people who will never understand what I do. I am one of those strong women who revels in giving over control.

I don't engage in conversations with people who have fixed ideas they are married to. They will forever be "right" about how "wrong" I am in their own minds, and trying to change that is wasted energy.

The first time I ever heard about BDSM was from a close girlfriend who told me about a date she had been on where she got flogged and loved it. I thought she was nuts. Until years later someone got a forcible hold of me and I got off to it completely.

Then I was a believer. But no amount of discussion would have changed my mind before the experience I had. The guy did not talk to me about it. He just took a chance and went for it, and it turned out really well.

I lead a high-profile life, and am very careful who I engage with on the subject of alternative sexuality. I have introduced people from my vanilla life to the scene, but only after I get some indication from their conversation that they'd be open to it. I would never allude to such with vanillas except in a joking sense.  

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to formenteralady)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/20/2006 9:41:11 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Excellent post and I agree with your view. I hate hearing  "Men have dominion over women" that is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever stated. We are all humans we are EQUAL. If a man or a woman chooses to be subsmissive then that is their decision, its not a given.

I've heard some women say they feel ALL women are inferior to men, that it is *natural*. She further states that it makes her stronger. I say it makes her look like an ass, because he or someone else, has filled her head with bullshit and she was dumb enough to swallow it.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to captiveplatypus)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/20/2006 10:58:32 PM   
skinnykitten


Posts: 35
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline 		subsa,

For me, within a rights-based discourse, the emphasis on 'consent' within a D/s dynamic is key.  Most if not all would probably agree that without consent, an interaction is not D/s in nature, but abusive.  The actions may be similar; the underlying reality is very different. 

In abusive situations, the inequality is externally imposed (by the abusive partner).  The woman is not giving her rights up, they are being taken from - or denied - her.

In D/s interactions, however, the inequality is self-imposed.  The submissive woman is exercising her right to determine the nature of her interactions, sexual or otherwise, with a partner (self-determination).  That she may then choose to voluntarily ‘give over’ her right to equality requires that she possess it in the first place.  This to me negates any notion of any inherent inferiority of ‘woman’ or ‘submissive’ - however real the inequality is within the dynamic, it is still a simulation. 

Though I am aware that the above does not necessarily apply to those women that feel that they ‘have to’ submit to men, I might add that I take issue with those who seek to universalise their own experiences of D/s, whether they be D-types or S-types.  For me to say for example that “I, as a woman feel inferior or unequal to my partner (a man) and therefore women generally are inferior and/or unequal to men” is to discount the realities of others and pathologize my own.

It is also important to note that it is rarely suggested that the existence of male submissives implies an inferiority of men to women.  It also is rarely argued that men are without rights, or that the male submissive should not believe in equal rights.

Apologies if I haven't been clear, we have construction road work happening in the evenings here :)
 

(in reply to classykindasassy)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/20/2006 11:06:46 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I don't really see how chores at home are determined by the partners' salaries, but I guess different households divide these things in different ways.

quote:

ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus

This is the way I see it.  If I pull my own weight, and my significant pulls his own, and our income is equal, then chores around the house should always be as equal.  If he is bringing home much more than I am monetarily, or works longer hours, well then things are different.

(in reply to captiveplatypus)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/20/2006 11:14:22 PM   
desertdancer


Posts: 1095
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		I see my submission to Master as me bending my will to form a will shared between the two of us. Yes, I know that others may see this as my will bending to his, but for me the two things are sepertate.  I find harmoney and beauty with the shared will, thus I do not find that woman's rights effect my choice to serve the one I am with.  Heck, I can't be bothered with things like woman's rights to be honest.  My concern is pleasing Master, what other women do is their own business. *Smiles*

_____________________________

* Shimmy Shimmy *

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/21/2006 5:33:17 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subsa
...when i've broached the submissive subject with some of my women friends many of them seem to think that by being submissive you somehow give up your rights... 


voting, the right to bear arms, equal pay?...legal rights that you'd have to claim (or someone else would have to prove) you were crazy or commit crimes for those rights to be taken away don't magically disappear simply by "being" submissive...
neither does having an opinion, an idea, a hope or a dream, however, depending on your definition of submissive, it might change the method, tone and frequency of your delivery.

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/21/2006 7:07:00 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		This is something that precariously balances right on the edge for me. 

A Dom can make a strong minded sub shine like the sun in her submission to him. Done wrong or too overbearing it can crush her to the core.

The balance of being one who's priority is to put themselves second & fully submit to another's will while still feeling mutual respect, rights and wants can be obtained is hard to make happen.
It's like I want and need to be lead, but not pulled down a road I don't belong on. A hard thing to find indeed.
Suzanne

< Message edited by onestandingstill -- 8/21/2006 7:09:14 AM >

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/21/2006 9:48:22 AM   
windy135


Posts: 437
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline 		I agree.  You can be submissive and still be a strong woman.  I have also been told I'm not submissive.  I don't know? I'm just me.  Maybe because of my beliefs I am a player or bedroom submissive but I'm just me. I like who I am and I have respect for everyone in this lifestyle no matter their "tittle". 

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/21/2006 11:06:17 AM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		Equal Rights has given women the *choice* to be submissive. 

Too many so-called feminists insist that any woman that stay at home and take care of the home and the children are not feminists.  When in reality those stay-at-home women are excercising their right to choose between career and family.  Those rights earned through the movement should not limit us, but should expand our horizons.

(in reply to subsa)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: equal rights and submission - 8/21/2006 11:54:30 AM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		If you asked my vanilla friends if they believed I was dominant or submissive, they would tell you I was dominant. I am a self-made, self-employed, run-around-as-though-I-am-in-charge woman in my work and life outside our relationship. I seemingly will bend to no one.

We see it not as a matter of inequality to be a female submissive to a male dominant, but see it as complimentary equals. I have my own ground to stand on, and I am treated with respect by my Dom, as I treat him with respect. I made the choice to become his submissive. It gives me a sense of peace I can hardly describe.

With that said, I believe part of women's rights, in theory, is the ability to choose what you want from life and from your sex life. If I have made the choice to submit to another, that is no less empowering or a weaker choice than choosing to take control. It is just different. I would not want to give up my rights in society that I have as a woman because I am submissive to another. I like to vote, I like to have equal pay. These things are fair, as I am no weaker in those pursuits nor many others than a man. Just because I have made the clear choice to submit to a particular man does not mean I see myself as submissive to all men, nor will I. There are things on an individual basis each person may do better than a person of the opposite sex at, and no amount of what you do in your personal life changes that.

My opinion, anyway.
behindmirrors.

(in reply to nefertari)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> equal rights and submission Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.141