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RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/14/2006 11:13:03 PM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

Exactly.

After having gone through a string of these, I realized it was break time.

And where my arrogance in thinking I could fix someone came from. My own need to do internal work. I'll stay away from the table until that idiot knight dies, and a man with common sense can take over.

I can only fix myself.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 21

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/14/2006 11:42:09 PM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly

I just wonder... Do any of you feel like you are expected to be the "knight in shining armor" for potential sub/slaves? I know that so many of us, myself included in the beginning, want someone to make things all better. I thought by having a Dom, they would be. He would automatically protect, care for, love, rescue, and guide me. I know from what this Dom has said, he is running into that now. He has met a lot of "troubled" sub/slaves, who expect him to do the above, to just make the hurt go away, and make it all better.

If this person has a pattern of finding troubled submissives I would turn the glare of the mirror where it belongs. These women simply cannot have a shoulder, voice, or companion if some part of him wasn't willing to play the very part he now expresses concern about. I have noticed that some men actually prefer the damsel in distress. It is an easy way to place the focus on someone else's issues and away from their own. Persons of this character are typically quite insecure and shouldn't be in a dominant role anyway.

porcelaine

I talked to him a bit about this tonite. I know he wants to be a good Dom, he wants to help these women, be what they have wanted. That is when I told him he couldn't be their therapist, he couldn't save them all.

I think we all want to help someone when we feel they need it. It's good to feel as though we make a difference in the world. Does this make him any less a Dom? No, I don't think so. It makes him human and a good person. He is not preying on these women, though some do.. he only wants to help. He actually cares what they think of him, and how they feel. That is not something I want to change in him, it's rare to find. I just want him to protect himself some in it..not just worry about how they will react and feel about things.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 22

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/14/2006 11:45:13 PM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

There is a distinct difference between altruism and martyrdom.

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 23

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:07:37 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

There is a distinct difference between altruism and martyrdom.

In my heart, I know that in his case it's altruism. He does want to help and to make others lives better. To give them what they have been missing, to see them happy for a change. He is not perfect, no one is, but I know that he has the best of intentions in the whole thing.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 24

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:15:00 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

But does he realize that he borders on a dangerous arrogance in this?

I know from hard experience that it is possible to find true pain from caring about broken people. This is not to say it is hopeless,but it does take one well versed in mental issues to deal with these matters. Amatuers simply do not have to tools do do as they might wish.

This is the danger of the white knight syndrome-they are fools in the face of these levels of dysfunction. They usually end up doing more harm than healing.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 25

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:21:16 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

But does he realize that he borders on a dangerous arrogance in this?

I know from hard experience that it is possible to find true pain from caring about broken people. This is not to say it is hopeless,but it does take one well versed in mental issues to deal with these matters. Amatuers simply do not have to tools do do as they might wish.

This is the danger of the white knight syndrome-they are fools in the face of these levels of dysfunction. They usually end up doing more harm than healing.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I agree in some ways. I know he would never cause anyone harm on purpose, not by any means. I can see it from both sides, as the Dom/me wanting to save and the sub/slave wanting to be saved. Neither is a healthy thing and both can end up hurt.

I think you can be there for someone, lend an ear, and help in a lot of ways. There are just some things you cannot do, cannot help...it's just accepting those things for what they are.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 26

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:23:24 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

The only real thing you can do, is help someone cut through thier denial long enough to get REAL help from a COMPETENT professional.

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 27

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:33:14 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

Have you ever tried to get anyone to get help, when they don't want it?

It's work, to ask for help, to go, to sort thru your feelings. Why would they do that, when a "knight" will come and just make it all better?

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 28

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:34:33 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

The most powerful of knights use guile to make them want it.

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 29

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:38:47 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

I have met some slaves that need no man at all to be happy yet could feel very much as if their master is their Knight in Shining Armour. How ? Because he is what they want and have found missing in her lives. He can simply be the man who inspires her need to serve...earned his collar and treats him like and feels as if he is her Knight.

It is the passion and determination to be as we say we are whether we judge somebody to be a cure all for our problems or not. This is to be discovered before even meeting for the first time and anything that would be a disappointment to the prospective slave or master should be fixed right away. This is done during what should be a long gestation period. Now...once consumated...you do in fact have your Knight, worts, faults and all.

Any slave could feel as if her master is her Knight in Shining Armour and with all those expectations that come with it. She must be prepared to take her time and maybe even help shine it up a little for him.

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 30

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:39:15 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

Lol..well, then they possess a power that few have, or will ever know. They deserve the title and everything that goes with it.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 31

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:43:17 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I have met some slaves that need no man at all to be happy yet could feel very much as if their master is their Knight in Shining Armour. How ? Because he is what they want and have found missing in her lives. He can simply be the man who inspires her need to serve...earned his collar and treats him like and feels as if he is her Knight.

It is the passion and determination to be as we say we are whether we judge somebody to be a cure all for our problems or not. This is to be discovered before even meeting for the first time and anything that would be a disappointment to the prospective slave or master should be fixed right away. This is done during what should be a long gestation period. Now...once consumated...you do in fact have your Knight, worts, faults and all.

Any slave could feel as if her master is her Knight in Shining Armour and with all those expectations that come with it. She must be prepared to take her time and maybe even help shine it up a little for him.

I thought I had a "knight" once. He didn't rescue me, nor solve all of my problems. He was though, exactly what I was looking for. I thought he would be there, protect me, all of that..but in the end, he armor was so rusted..he just crumbled away.

There is nothing wrong with thinking the best of who you are with. It's just when you lift them too high, they have a hell of a lot farther to fall.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 32

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:43:53 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly

Lol..well, then they possess a power that few have, or will ever know. They deserve the title and everything that goes with it.

Competent domination is a seduction of mind over manner.

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 33

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 12:46:02 AM

Homestead

Posts: 1005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I have met some slaves that need no man at all to be happy yet could feel very much as if their master is their Knight in Shining Armour. How ? Because he is what they want and have found missing in her lives. He can simply be the man who inspires her need to serve...earned his collar and treats him like and feels as if he is her Knight.

It is the passion and determination to be as we say we are whether we judge somebody to be a cure all for our problems or not. This is to be discovered before even meeting for the first time and anything that would be a disappointment to the prospective slave or master should be fixed right away. This is done during what should be a long gestation period. Now...once consumated...you do in fact have your Knight, worts, faults and all.

Any slave could feel as if her master is her Knight in Shining Armour and with all those expectations that come with it. She must be prepared to take her time and maybe even help shine it up a little for him.

I thought I had a "knight" once. He didn't rescue me, nor solve all of my problems. He was though, exactly what I was looking for. I thought he would be there, protect me, all of that..but in the end, he armor was so rusted..he just crumbled away.

There is nothing wrong with thinking the best of who you are with. It's just when you lift them too high, they have a hell of a lot farther to fall.

I'd much rather be the cuddled toad, than the lofty prince. What is life if one can no longer enjoy splashing in the puddles?

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 34

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 1:12:31 AM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

I don't expect a Prince anymore, I mean.. if he walks in, I won't kick him out, but he is not expected.

I want a lot, I expect a lot, but I don't require him to be superhuman or anything, just a good guy, with a good heart, honest to a fault. He will be muddy once in a while, clean more, but it might be nice to catch a glimpse of shine every so often.

edited cause I can't type this early in the morning

< Message edited by sleazybutterfly -- 8/15/2006 1:14:05 AM >

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 35

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 5:22:45 AM

FrankAr

Posts: 817
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly

Do very many of you run into this? How do you deal with it? Do you find yourself trying to be the "rescuer"? Do you think they have their expectations way too high as far as what "magic" you can work?

Thanks for your answers.

Respectfully, Andrea

Greetings butterfly,

I must admit that I post my facial picture on some of the boards rarely, for it does not work. The reason is this, and this has happened many times. I usually tell people that I have a face for radio, the voice for phone sex and the heart to dominate.

Now I have had a few ex-girlfriends that have just rang me to hear my voice, don't know why, I am just me and my voice is just my own. Many females tend to hear my voice, and with hearing my voice, with its soothing effects, they tend to not concentrate upon the photo that they have seen, they tend to have within their mind the picture of a greek, toned, muscular, fighter. The ones that you have in the romance novels, but you get my drift. We can talk about anything and everything, but lo and behold, they have that pic in their mind, and with my soothing voice, well they do have that fantasy floating in their mind constantly.

I am just me, a Gor FM, that is just down to earth, relaxed, and takes things on the chin in more ways than one. I listen, take in all sides and then decide. Still so many subs and slaves, wish that I lived in the states, england, europe, asia. Some have offered to teach me skiing, mountain climbing, showing me around their city, spending the time at their house and not the hotel, etc.

Be well and take care.

Master Frank Ar.

< Message edited by FrankAr -- 8/15/2006 5:23:30 AM >

(in reply to sleazybutterfly)

Post #: 36

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 6:48:15 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

FR:

Just make a new profile saying you're "Young, new to the life and ready to explore" and see just how many knights come out of the woodwork. It's a great ego boost to have all those chicks leaning on you and needing your support...and it's often one of the best ways to get your foot in the door. They make themselves vulnerable to you and, before they know it, they're all googly eyed and ready to submit.

Both sides of the slash pander to this to a disgustingly high degree- for all their talk about "subs are strong people."

There's nothing bad or wrong about people relying on eachother, or looking to eachother for support or knowing that he/she is your strong person in life and you can look to them in bad times.

But it's very different looking for a rescuer or someone to rescue.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to FrankAr)

Post #: 37

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 7:07:25 AM

MzTlaz

Posts: 140
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline

Porcelaine....excellent post!

I am completely with you about having your partner go into the relationship "balanced and capable of functioning as a free standing adult" and that they should expect that of me.

My recent experiences back up your idea that the knight in shining armor focuses on their partner's issues to avoid dealing with their own. I've actually had men asign me "problems" that I really didn't have because, I guess, I didn't fit their 'damsel in distress' image well enough and their issues and problems have far outweighed mine.

We all have baggage....hopefully mine is down to 'carry-on' (oh bugger are there fluids in there?) and I certainly am willing to look at and work on my issues, personally I love when someone slaps me up side of the head over something if they have a genuine point and aren't doing it to make themselves seem better. However, those same people tend to not want that done to them....they run a mile from it....and they tend to be wearing shining armor.....the sun really bounces of the back of that stuff ;)

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 38

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 7:40:54 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

But does he realize that he borders on a dangerous arrogance in this?

I know from hard experience that it is possible to find true pain from caring about broken people. This is not to say it is hopeless,but it does take one well versed in mental issues to deal with these matters. Amatuers simply do not have to tools do do as they might wish.

This is the danger of the white knight syndrome-they are fools in the face of these levels of dysfunction. They usually end up doing more harm than healing.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

This is a very very VERY good point. Especially the part about dangerous arrogance. I have gotten very close to allowing myself to become sucked into the whole "I am so strong and powerful, I can save the world" syndrome. Too close. Dangerously close!
I am now of the opinion that it is in my best interest and anyone that has serious issues to stay away from one another. I am not responsible for them, they are adults.
butterfly, your friend, even with all of his wonderful intentions, for him/her to be trying to help these people that are hurting, may actually be causing them harm. Impeding the progress they need to be making on their own by trying to "save them" from themselves. In my opinion for people that are constantly bringing strife and drama into their lives and not doing what they need to do to change the pattern, the best thing you can do is be their friend, tell them you care about them, point them to the profession resources that are equiped to help them. If they refuse to avail themselves of those resources then they obviously need to flounder some more before they come to the realization that they are screwing up and need to get their shit together.

I recognise the allure of the ego stroke, of helping these people. They tell you how wonderful you are, so strong. How you have "saved" them, from their worthless constantly fucking up selves. yada yada yada......... They feed a facet of a dominant natured person oh so SO well. Being the "all knowing" dominant we do our best to deny that this is happening....it does not change the fact that we are still using the "poor submissive" to feed our own needs under the guise of helping them.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Homestead)

Post #: 39

RE: Knight in Shining Armor - 8/15/2006 7:53:56 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
There's nothing bad or wrong about people relying on eachother, or looking to each other for support or knowing that he/she is your strong person in life and you can look to them in bad times.

But it's very different looking for a rescuer or someone to rescue.

That we CAN agree on. I do have more than a little of the ol' 'white knight' syndrome, have been the same all my life but did learn early on to watch for it and 'try' to control it. Limiting it to helping someone stand on their own two feet, not falling into the trap of trying to 'rescue' them.

The white charger does kick down the stable door from time to time but I no longer choose to ride him when he does so.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 40

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