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The difference - 8/21/2006 7:56:30 PM   
vessel111


Posts: 8
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline 		I was having a discuss with someone about can a Master have  a sub.
Thier thinking was slaves are Masters and subs are for Dominants.
The reason behind their answer(opinion) was the level of submission that a slave show. They tend think that slaves tend submit deeper than a sub therefore they should only submit to Masters (yeah right).
Me I beg to differ. In my opinion a sub can submit just a deep if not deeper as slave.


Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 8:02:50 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		It is impossible to determine what a person's "level of submission" is based on whether they accept the label "slave" vs "submissive".
I know "slaves" who covertly negotiate every last frickin detail of their dynamic and subs with virtually no limits. In the hands of the wrong dominant, a slave could find herself resenting his authority and rebelling. In the hands of the right dom, a submissive could find herself out-submitting anything anybody ever did on the planet Gor.

People are going to love whomever they choose to love, regardless of what the heading on their collarme profile says.




_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to vessel111)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 8:11:05 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Well, I'll wade into this, and possibly get bashed behind me.  Let's have fun!

IMHO, a dom and a Master is really the same thing.  One is more a title than another.

Now, where it gets trickier, I do see a difference between a sub and a slave.  In a single word, the difference is surrender.  The slave determines that their trust level is so deep such that they allow all choices and direction to come from the dominant.  If you feel that a sub can exist on this level, then again the terms are more of what make that particular couple comfortable.

In the typical lexicon, yes, doms are associated with subs, while masters are associated with slaves (D/s, M/s).  If what I said before (that a dom and a Master are the same thing), another word that crops up that might be more typified of a slave is owner.  Doms, Masters, owners all have to take responsibility for the sub/slave 'at least' during a scene but again, in my opinion, really need to do so nearly all the time (definitely all the time in a 24/7 situation).  But it makes sense that an 'owner' would be aware that that responsibility never ends.

In my way of thinking, doms and subs tend to relieve themselves of their persona (perhaps a bad phrase) at some points in time, i.e. they take breaks for some semblance of normalcy (definitely a bad word - I'm typing on the fly).  Slaves and owners (Masters, if you will) never step out of their character (I can feel the flames any time now).  That's not to say they can't seem ordinary (to the casual observer), but within themselves their power exchange is constant.  (And yes, I'm well aware of the debate about the phrase 'power exchange'.)

So, as you can see, it's all clear (as mud) in my mind.  Where you will find the greatest debate, I feel, is in terminology.

Pardon me while I go duck now.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to vessel111)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 8:14:13 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		I think my relationship's power exchange dynamic uses the typical lexicon to hold open that first story bedroom window where the sash is not functioning properly.


_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 8:17:46 PM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		Depends on your preference for labels.

I personally do go by the, if I own someone, I'm a Master, she is my slave label. If they submit to me, I am their Dominant and they are my submissive. If they are an occassional scene partner, they are my Top/bottom. My label preference.

However, a friend of mine who would hardly fit the bill of a slave, calls himself a slave. He is unowned and mostly submits when it is convienient to him to do so and he has no loyalty. But slave is the label he chooses. I do rag on him about it though in jest. The only problem I have with him is that he does try to compare himself to slaves like the ones on this board.

I have seen several people call themselves Masters, although they have no slaves or pets. Many times though it seems such Dominants, if they prove to be the arrogant insistent that everyone bows down to them type, tend to get laughed off the board, or out of the lifestyle group.  

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 8:25:21 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Giant fucking flame!!!!!
 
Glad I got that out.  Now, OP dude, didja have to open this can o' worms? 

I thought so.

Fair enough.

You will now hear about 50 people screaming their own opinions over one another, telling each other they are wrong, and generally making asses of themselves.  One person will post all the other threads on this topic (Not all, I hope.  CM has limited space) and by reading those you can predict, word for word, what will happen on this thread.

In short, we are fucked.

Yours,


benji

PS:  No offense intended, LA. But this time the list will really be too long.

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to Slipstreme)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 8:26:53 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		Hey, man, I tried to kill it early.
Next time I will bring more morphine and a bigger syringe.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 8:37:53 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I remember one time, I had this girl gobbling my cock like a christmas turkey......as I was ready to come I asked her; do you identify as a submissive or a slave?......a very interesting philosophical discussion ensued.....I found myself rather taken aback by her retort.......

Ron  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 8:56:04 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		By the looks of it, the lurkers are leaving.

I may have been wrong.  Thank God!

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 9:09:54 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

By the looks of it, the lurkers are leaving.

I may have been wrong.  Thank God!

Yours,


benji


Actually I see alot of people 'lurking'. 

I think its gonna get full-blown. 

NO!! Not THAT kind of blown! 

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 9:11:54 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Only Jeff and violetraven at this point....  and me..  LOL

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 9:23:15 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I should just come and hang out to lurk and annoy you Benji...

:P


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 9:28:04 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		But then you gotta stay.  You're not lurking now....

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 9:36:02 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		lurk lurk lurk
just for you benji

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 9:41:36 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		No, post post post, but no lurk lurk lurk.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 9:50:23 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vessel111
I was having a discuss with someone about can a Master have  a sub.

If they want to and are happy with it.
quote:


Thier thinking was slaves are Masters and subs are for Dominants.

Generally that is how people are paired up, but hey, any combo you can think of exists out there.  YOu got switches and slaves, subs and subs, doms and doms, masters and switches, bottoms and masters....it's out there, just not as common.
quote:


The reason behind their answer(opinion) was the level of submission that a slave show. They tend think that slaves tend submit deeper than a sub therefore they should only submit to Masters (yeah right).
Me I beg to differ. In my opinion a sub can submit just a deep if not deeper as slave.

Depth of submission is basically like saying "He loves me more/deeper/better because he does X."  It's a completely useless statement that serves no purpose but to make some people feel better and put others down.

Be who you are and be with someone who fulfills you.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to vessel111)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 9:57:54 PM   
NastyDaddy


Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vessel111

...They tend think that slaves tend submit deeper than a sub therefore they should only submit to Masters (yeah right).
Me I beg to differ. In my opinion a sub can submit just a deep if not deeper as slave.



Are you sure they didn't tend to think "longer"as opposed to "deeper"?

Deeper sounds awfully cock length'ish, and I was always told that was bragging.

With regard to "longer", there are many who will argue to cut through the chase and place the difference on two criterion; 1) submissives are regarded as part-time 2) slaves are regarded as full-time.

Let's examine that closer.... oh, good idea, let's do...

Do submissives get overtime?


(in reply to vessel111)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 10:49:15 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vessel111
Me I beg to differ.



You can beg all you want, dear.

(in reply to vessel111)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 10:49:52 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		This is one of those things that is very hard for an outsider to judge. We can not gauge someone's heart condition to determine if they are more submissive than someone else. Someone that has a lot of power, self discipline, and control - and is accustomed to using it is giving up a lot more than someone who doesn't have oodles of personal power, self discipline, and control. The one that easily surrenders what little personal power she has to anyone that wants it may appear to be "more submissive", but the one that puts aside a powerful persona to serve is, in my opinion, more submissive. To the outsider this may not be apparent, but to the dom receiving the power it is.

Many doms I have read on this board (and both I have been involved with) wanted a submissive with a lot of personal power and self discipline. (whether they find that in me is not for me to judge..smiles)

My point is not that someone that is a "slave " or a "sub" is better, or that anyone is more submissive than another... just wanted to point that the above is saying that we cannot tell from an outsider view. (did I escape the flame?)

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/21/2006 11:16:47 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to vessel111)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The difference - 8/21/2006 11:21:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy



Do submissives get overtime?




Yes, but there is no rule stating we have to be rewarded for it, that is up to the generous mood of the master/dom. I looked it up in the the manual published by the US government that regulates submissive breaks, sick time, vacation time, and maternity leave,.... it turns out we do not get those either unless our dom says we do... Im hoping the retirement package is better, but I am dubious about that.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to NastyDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 20
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