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Chicago Bans Goose Liver


Is Chicago Right in regulating what foods can be eaten?
  14% (4)
Is Chicago Wrong in regulating what foods can be eaten?
  64% (18)
Is killing animals for food wrong? It hurts them
  14% (4)
Is killing plants for food wrong? It hurts them
  7% (2)


Total Votes : 28
(last vote on : 8/27/2006 12:05:27 PM)
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RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 8:53:05 AM   
BrutalAntipathy


Posts: 412
Joined: 7/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
Folks suffering, starving, being tortured, and dying in the world, and some ass clown politician wants to fret over the well-being of geese! And people wonder why I am a misanthropist, sheesh!


Is it not possible to have compassion for people and animals? Does it have to be one or the other? For me, it's all one thing. Justifying one horror by pointing to the continuation of another is, at the least, flawed thinking. In this example, it's a form of passive complicity in deliberate, gratuitous cruelty.

Bob


Millions of battles to be fought over millions of causes. I just think that anyone that would choose to champion a battle over animals over one of people doesn't have their priorities straight.

(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 9:02:57 AM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
Folks suffering, starving, being tortured, and dying in the world, and some ass clown politician wants to fret over the well-being of geese! And people wonder why I am a misanthropist, sheesh!




Millions of battles to be fought over millions of causes. I just think that anyone that would choose to champion a battle over animals over one of people doesn't have their priorities straight.


I second that....well put.

(in reply to BrutalAntipathy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 9:10:48 AM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I never said one word about the legality of the treatment of the animal........if Chicago, Illinois, or the US wishes to bann the CREATING of said food then spiffy diffy doo. What I said was that it is assinine for a government to waste taxpayer money over banning a food. If that is the case then they should bann all leather goods, all fur goods, all products made from ALL animal byproducts etc etc etc. Bann, eggs, chicken, Banquet turkey pot pies even....Why?? Have you seen how chickens are treated? I have, I am a farmer, I live in farm country USA, I worked for Country Lane Eggs. The conditions those chickens live in to produce those nice cheap eggs were and are no better than those geese being used for the pate'.
I am not pro cruelty to animals in anyway. I am just saying that it is hypocritical to make a law regarding one small part of it.



It was a general reply.... I wasn't singling you out.

But someone has to start somewhere.  Why not a government head in Chicago making a statement telling big business that they should continue to find other ways to manufacture their goods where it doesn't involve the inhumane treatment of animals.  Yes, I see the way chickens are treated.... and people are starting to protest, and more and more companies are looking to cage-free, environments, etc.   It all started somewhere.... Geese are simply having their day to be recognized, raising awareness of a cruelty not often heard about.  I don't think that's a bad thing, and taking a small step in the right, cruelty-free direction seems far from hypocritical to me.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 9:27:00 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I knew this was going to be fun.    I believe with some that the council approached this incorrectly.   They banned the consumption but if I wanted to move to chicago and raise geese for pattee the I can.   so in fact they are indirectly endorsing the concept of the torture.   LOL   Now I can see banning, butchering, transportation across the city, and/or the raising of geese for this purpose.  

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 9:39:16 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		 Given the opportunity, I'd prefer to go back to growing all my own vegies and fruit and raising all my own meat (except for the more exotics like crock, buffalo and kangaroo meat which is not often on the menue anyway). This way I know the condition of crops and stock and do all my own humane slaughtering. These days it is not feasable to do this here without the Government interfering unless I go bush well away from civilization.. 

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(in reply to BrutalAntipathy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 9:54:04 AM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11


quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
Folks suffering, starving, being tortured, and dying in the world, and some ass clown politician wants to fret over the well-being of geese! And people wonder why I am a misanthropist, sheesh!



BrutalAntipathy: "Millions of battles to be fought over millions of causes. I just think that anyone that would choose to champion a battle over animals over one of people doesn't have their priorities straight."


spankmepink11: "I second that....well put."


I think ones who see it as "either/or" have a wonderful rationalization for underwriting cruelty to animals. They can even wrap it up in a pretty "compassion for people...especially children" costume.

My question to you: If cruelty to humans were somehow miraculously eradicated, would you then consider the possibilitiy of working on cruelty to animals? Or would some other priority arise that would justify postponing that? 
 
Bob

< Message edited by DesertRat -- 8/23/2006 10:01:17 AM >

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(in reply to spankmepink11)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 10:27:19 AM   
BrutalAntipathy


Posts: 412
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11


quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
Folks suffering, starving, being tortured, and dying in the world, and some ass clown politician wants to fret over the well-being of geese! And people wonder why I am a misanthropist, sheesh!



BrutalAntipathy: "Millions of battles to be fought over millions of causes. I just think that anyone that would choose to champion a battle over animals over one of people doesn't have their priorities straight."


spankmepink11: "I second that....well put."


I think ones who see it as "either/or" have a wonderful rationalization for underwriting cruelty to animals. They can even wrap it up in a pretty "compassion for people...especially children" costume.

My question to you: If cruelty to humans were somehow miraculously eradicated, would you then consider the possibilitiy of working on cruelty to animals? Or would some other priority arise that would justify postponing that? 
 
Bob


I would still place the environment and preservation of individual species over it. Again, it is a matter of priorities for me. I am not really sure how overfeeding an animal constitutes a malicious act, either. I would honestly be more concerned with people leaving a dog out in the heat without water than I would someone overfeeding a goose in order to make its liver larger.

But I will say one thing, if I am given the choice between rescuing a 102 year old man that only has a week to live or a kitten from a burning building, there is going to be a charred kitten. I love cats, but I would twist the head off of 100 kittens in order to save one human life.

(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 10:28:21 AM   
xGoddessx


Posts: 81
Status: offline 		I think it's about time, actually.  They should make it outlawed everywhere, not just in Chicago.  This is about force feeding, the way it's done is very cruel. 
 
Yes, I agree there are lots of horrible things going on in this world.  People are hurt and killed, tortured every single day.  Animals meet the same end.  When do we step up?  I guess to some people they are just animals and don't deserve our compassion until there is no human in the world suffering.  I don't see the logic in that myself.  If you can stop one living thing from having to suffer, why would you not?  If a hundred people are drowning, but you can only save twenty-five, do you let those twenty-five drown because you can't save them all?
 
Animals are not people, make no mistake.  That does not lessen the fact that they have spirits, experience pain, love, sorrow, personalities..etc.  The way our animals are treated, I believe  reflects the society that surrounds them. 
 
I read once something that really touched me, but I can't remember the entire quote.  It was about how when we partake of the flesh of an animal, we take in a part of it, we absorb them.  With that, we take in their experiences and this includes the way they die, the terror. 

Some will say I am a soft-hearted liberal, but that is not true.  I just believe there are better uses for the grain and water in this world that to feel it to cows to be killed for human consumption.  If we pay attention to animal suffering and work to stop it, in turn, human suffering will ease.  Just the amount of water and grain used to feed factory farmed animals every year, would feed millions of people that are without food now.  

Why should we as humans expect compassion, when we are so selfish as to how we hand compassion out ourselves?





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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 11:07:40 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xGoddessx

...when we partake of the flesh of an animal, we take in a part of it, we absorb them.  With that, we take in their experiences and this includes the way they die, the terror.   


I couldn't agree more, and apparently many other's agree.  There is a woman here in Colorado who designs the holding pens for cattle at slaughter houses in a manner that puts less stress on the animals...and now a full third of them are designed in this new way.  I say bravo! 
 
I have quit eating veal because of how it's raised for the same reason...and because of the antibiotics they have to feed the poor things to keep them alive long enough to make enough money on 'em.  Even without the garbage they put IN the creatures...I worry about the hormones and stuff like Adrenalin their own bodies pump?  Surely it's not good to ingest such stuff.  I love the taste of both Foie Gras and veal...and would continue to eat it if it were raised 'naturally'.  Veal used to be a by-product of dairy farmers (refreshing their cows takes a pregnancy)...but keeping the calves the way they do to make extra money is abuse; same as force feeding a bird. 
 
I'm pleased to read "The forced feeding of geese and ducks has been banned in the countries of Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, England, Switzerland, Austria, Poland, The Czech Republic and Australia.  Italy has passed a law to ban forced feeding by 2004."  ...and heard even France is considering such a ban.
 
It's about time.
 
MOO,
beverly

(in reply to xGoddessx)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 11:49:22 AM   
xGoddessx


Posts: 81
Status: offline 		That's the thing that people don't want to think about.  It's a nice pretty picture to just go to the store and pick up a package of meat (flesh) and not have to think about where it comes from, or what action brought it about.
 
  A veteran USDA meat inspector from Texas describes what he has seen:  "Cattle dragged and choked... knocking 'em four, five, ten times.  Every now and then when they're stunned they come back to life, and they're up there agonizing.  They're supposed to be re-stunned but sometimes they aren't and they'll go through the skinning process alive.  I've worked in four large [slaughterhouses] and a bunch of small ones.  They're all the same.  If people were to see this, they'd probably feel really bad about it.  But in a packing house everybody gets so used to it that it doesn't mean anything."  ~Slaughterhouse 1997

I don't know how anyone could read the above and not be touched in some way to think about things a bit more.  It's not just about not eating meat, it's about standing up and saying that something is morally wrong and should be stopped.
 
I agree Bearlee, little changes like that can make a difference.  If a changes are made here and there, a few at a time, before you know it, the impact would be unimaginable.
 

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 12:04:18 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		My only last thought on this is that I hope that everyone that is against the killing and consumption of any animal also does not use any leather product in any manner. Not shoes, boots, belts, WHIPS, CUFFS, etc...........that to me would be such a  sickening hypocrisy. Akin to the hunters that killed the great western buffalo herds for their skins and left the rest to rot in the sun. 

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 12:14:11 PM   
xGoddessx


Posts: 81
Status: offline 		I totally agree.  It's a great hypocrisy to do such things.  I know many that do, that's for sure.  I am not one that says, "Well, it's dead anyway, so I might as well use the leather.".  Responsibility does not stop at the dinner table, it extends into our everday lives, in so many ways.  
 
So many seemingly unimportant daily choices make huge impacts on everything that exists around us.   

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Still SlaveAkasha...but needing to just be me...if that makes sense.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 1:57:17 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

My only last thought on this is that I hope that everyone that is against the killing and consumption of any animal also does not use any leather product in any manner. Not shoes, boots, belts, WHIPS, CUFFS, etc...........that to me would be such a  sickening hypocrisy. Akin to the hunters that killed the great western buffalo herds for their skins and left the rest to rot in the sun. 

I do my best to avoid leather, but you are comparing different things.  The argument is being made that animals- even if being killed to eat... should be allowed to live in a cruelty-free, non-torturous environment while they are alive.  One could be a beef eater, or use leather goods, AND still find that animals before they are killed for food consumption, deserve to live a life that is not worse than death itself.

If I did eat beef or pultry, I would still avoid veal, goose liver, and animals that are harmed while being raised, at all costs.  In my opinion... if you guys are going to kill the cattle for food anyway... then you should made their remains into whatever you can.  I may not buy any of it... but I'd rather see the animals remains used for good instead of being used for nothing and discarded.  My vote would be we all avoid killing animals and make do with everything else we have... but that won't happen... so how about be fair, and don't torture the animals for months on end while you prepare  to kill and eat them.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 2:27:05 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I understand what you are saying completely.

My point is that because I live in farm country I can say that there is no current economical yet really humane way to raise any animal for consumption. I see how cattle in the feed lots are treated, hogs in the big confinement buildings are kept in crates so small that the larger ones cannot even lie down. Pigs are very smart animals and get so mentally deranged when confined they chew on one anothers tails hense the practice of cutting their teeth and tails shortly after they are born, no anesthesia. Chickens are kept in cages so small they are featherless.
 
Yes I love to eat meat and don't plan on stopping. Yes it bothers me to see animals treated this way. However I have the luxury of chosing the steer I want slaughtered and put in my freezer. I can chose who I buy it from, I know how it was fed, I can chose who slaughters it and how. I am very fortunate. Yet I still buy the chicken and the turkey at the grocery store because it is less expensive that if I raised the birds and butchered them myself.

My thoughts on this liver issue is similar to the prohibition fiasco, making the sale of it illegal will not stop the demand and consumption. It is much more complex. You have to stop the desire for the product.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 2:30:22 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		 




^5s  MistressLorelei  

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 2:31:50 PM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		Leather is simply a biproduct of the meat industry, comparing buying and using it to the skin and fur hunters of the olden days makes no sense today.

As for the rest, I dont really have an opinion on it to be honost, I like meat, and I like it alot. The closest thing i"ve come to anything that resembles animal cruelty that would soon become my food was when I was taught how to snare/kill, skin, gut and finally eat small animals [rabbits and squirrels] and even then I was the one doing all the dirty work. I guess part of me dosent really want to know where some of my more tasty carnivorious centric stuff comes from, long as it tastes good i'm fine.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 2:49:09 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		In Lady Angelika's absence, I'll play the role of everyone's feared French-corrector:

It's FOIE gras.  "Foie" means "liver," and "gras" means "fat."

Edited to add: It's the same "gras" as in "mardi gras," "fat Tuesday."

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

So I say bring on the fois gras!


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 8/23/2006 2:52:28 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 2:58:18 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		The gras le ass if you eat too much foie gras.

Or would that be ass le gras?


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/23/2006 2:59:14 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 4:32:27 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It would be grassy ass, wouldn't it?

(Actually, it would be "fesses grasses," "fat buttocks.")

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Chicago Bans Goose Liver - 8/23/2006 6:02:40 PM   
WetHotGoddess


Posts: 128
Joined: 5/18/2006
Status: offline 		I just find myself wondering why are they banning food and not enforcing cruelty laws.  If the ban stems from the cruelty to animals why not put an end to that? 
 
~slowly walks away, shaking head and wondering what our "free" country is coming to...

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Profile   Post #: 40
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