RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (Full Version)

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yourMissTress -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 8:29:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

Tress,
The one scene that I would get up and walk out of is a "rape" fetish. Although consentual, some of the people I have seen do this type of scene, do it so realistically that it just makes me sick to my stomach. But..I love DOING them lol I suppose if I were in control of the scene it would make a huge difference, but to hear a little submissive screaming and getting into the whole fantasy of it, it is just a bit too real for me.


Thank You, MoGA.  So you can separate the realness when you are the one doing it, but not watching.  Interesting.  I wonder how many others can't watch something that they can participate in..



Homestead -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 8:37:30 AM)

 Encountering Tops disease generally annoys me to the point that I will end up ignoring an individual who does it in public. I just can't see anyone who can bleeds as a God.[:D]



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 8:51:43 AM)

A few things I couldnt watch:
 
face slapping.... I know this is a huge turn on to some people but to me thats just a huge no no.... the mental response would be to want to knock the shit out of who ever dealt the slap... its something that I feel is degrading to an unacceptable point, its humiliating for the person on the other end of it and I just cant wrap my brain around enjoying something like that. ( and I'm not talking play sapping, I'm talking the out of the blue someone said something or did something that their Dominant didnt like and *SLAP* right across the face.... no warning... grrrrr )
 
Extensive humiliation scenes, that kinda feeds off of the above as well. I just cant wrap my head around it actually being enjoyable for someone else to be made to feel less than human. Mild humiliation is great, playful humiliation is great too... ( as bearlee stated in her thread, its all relative) but there is a point for me where I cant focus on it as just a play thing, there's a point where you can see in someone elses eyes that its internally beating them down, and for me thats unforgivable.
 
I dont share in the needle phobia, as a diabetic I deal with needles a LOT so they just dont bother me.
 
I would also definately have to leave if there were any kind of vomit play... that would just completely turn my stomach. Even after years of having to clean it up ( nursing home work) I just cant and dont deal well with the sight, smell or sound of someone puking.

Other than that, I think I'd be ok, but from lack of exposure to a lot of things I'm sure there is other stuff that I would either walk away from or have some kind of reaction too, especially if I have the slightest inclination that the bottom was in some sort of distress...


 
 



genusnpimptress -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 8:52:29 AM)

What is too far for me may not be too far for another. It is only too if someone is damaged.

Hmmm i cant think of anything that i dont mind watching, but there is a lot that i am not willing to do. The only thing that i could honestly walk away from would be stupidity.

I am so new to all of this that i like to see all the options out there. In time i would be willing to try anything once (if i see it done it makes it easier). I know that there are some things, no matter how many time i see it, that i know that i cant handle (i think).


Keaira




Bearlee -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 9:20:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Thank you for the response Bearlee.  Degradation can be very difficult for many people to watch or hear.  Is it something you can walk away from and be fine?  Or is it something that, should you suddenly find yourself watching such a scene and walk away, you are bothered or haunted by for some time afterwards? 
 
Is it something you can chalk up to "not for you" and walk away from or does being faced with it leave a mental mark? 


Interesting questions, Tress; this is a really neat thread!  Thank you.
 
I could easily walk away and be fine, like Raven might do regarding needle play.  I doubt I'd watch long enough to get squicked enough for it to bother me for more than a few seconds.
 
I've watched gay men play; boy-o-boy they can get ROUGH!  That's hard for me, too; even though I know it's consentual.  I don't much like fighting...and that's what it looks like to me...though I know better.  Yup; I just wander away and I'm fine.
 
I'm fairly edgy; I've watched piercings, needles, bloody whip & knife play, watersports, age play, takedowns & resistance play, electrical play, fucking/sucking/probing...  
 
By and large I would say, of CONSENTUAL things...it's just the degradation thing I have trouble with.  I'd be pretty upset with the actions of the Dom in mistoferin's story too...THAT would bother me for some time; as would unsafe play like hitting kidneys, etc.  Generally, the places I go and the people I hang out with wouldn't allow it, anyway...so no problem.
 
bearlee



darkinshadows -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 9:20:21 AM)

That is a really interesting question.
I am a total voyeur and the reality is I have a fascination in watching reactions.
I have had to sit here and think and I can honestly say, there isn't one thing that I would walk away from bar one and that is watching a scene involving scat (not that I have ever witnessed that).  Just a personal dislike, but I accept that for others its perfectly wonderful.  I would just walk away and not wish to witness it.
 
Again, as usual, I am with Em in the fact I would probably respond more to the (negative) dynamic between people than the acts themselves.
 
Peace and Rapture  



yourMissTress -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 9:21:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

A few things I couldnt watch:
 
face slapping.... *snip* ( and I'm not talking play sapping, I'm talking the out of the blue someone said something or did something that their Dominant didnt like and *SLAP* right across the face.... no warning... grrrrr )
 
Extensive humiliation scenes, that kinda feeds off of the above as well. I just cant wrap my head around it actually being enjoyable for someone else to be made to feel less than human. *snip* but there is a point for me where I cant focus on it as just a play thing, there's a point where you can see in someone elses eyes that its internally beating them down, and for me thats unforgivable. 
 
*snip*

I would also definately have to leave if there were any kind of vomit play... *snip*that would just completely turn my stomach.I just cant and dont deal well with the sight, smell or sound of someone puking. 




Thank you for your response.  I would also have difficulty with your specific example of face slapping, only because I would view that as abuse and not part of a scene.  Extreme humiliation, although I know there are lots of people that really get off on it, I can't watch it either.  Vomit play...no thanks for me either, I would have to walk away, quickly.  But do any of these things leave a lasting impression on you?  Even if it's only a few hours or a day?  Are they things you can just walk away from?  Or do you have to process them over some period of time?



yourMissTress -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 9:23:30 AM)

Bearlee, thank you again for your honest answers.



yourMissTress -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 9:25:40 AM)

darkinshadows, thank you for your response.  I too am a people watcher, and there are some scenes that while I personally don't care to watch, I will watch the people watching the scene to see how they react to it. 
 
One thing I regret from the nailing scene that I did a while back was that I was unable to see anyone's response other than My boy.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 10:04:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress
When does a fetish go too far?  When does another's right to express their sexuality/fetish stop and your right to consent begin? 
I'm not talking about out in the general public, I'm talking about behind the closed doors of a private (not in a private home), members and their guests only, dungeon.   
Is there a fetish that you just couldn't ever witness?  Is there a fetish that would make your blood boil if you were faced with it?


MissTress,
Outside of death and those not meeting the age requirement for the ride, I don't think anyone's personal choice of activity "gos too far".

Respect is always essential to any personal interaction. Whether that interaction is at a semi-public club, personal residence, or public; respect for others should always be part of the equation. Permission should be obtained from the club's proprietor if you were planing on doing something "outside the norm" for the club. At a private residence it's even more important. Its an obligation of the guests to not do anything that disrespects the person or location.

The same consistency is needed by the observation or "witness" side. If you witness something that "makes your blood boil" - leave. You may hate and detest and be disgusted by what you observe, but respecting the participants is still required. Leave quietly, without loud comment, and try to avoid laughing and/or saying out loud; "JESUS CHRIST - That's just GROSS!!". In fact, whenever I take someone to a club or private party who has never been to one, I tell them those are two of the most important public play protocol "rules". The line and distinction between "Gross" and "Erotic" is very blurry, and no two people define it exactly the same.

The other aspect is a host obligation to the event. At a public club we frequent often the host/owner will advise when something "irregular" may be going on in a certain area. At private parties, the host takes more responsibility. Unless he knows each attendee intimately the host needs to covey very specific ground rules. Usually specific areas are set up for play defined as "edgy". What's edgy? At a home or a club, I'd define "edgy" as messy or potentially messy. Whether that "mess" is a bodily fluid, or wax, or body paint, or fire-play. I've attended parties where all those were prohibited to having plastic draped throughout and pools set up specific for specific play. 

What I define as "too far" applies to me. That goes for observation as well as participation. I've left a few "demonstrations" that went "too far" by my personal preference that by description I was attracted. On the other hand, I've seen some things that in description sounded over the edge and had a pre-conceived "gross" that turned out to be very "erotic. Even knowing what's coming sometimes doesn't determine how it will effect you.

Keeping respect in mind allows you to share the experience while maintaining your self respect. I also always project that the participants are ultimately respecting each other, regardless of what I am observing. I may find it disgusting, and distasteful, or funny, or I just may not understand it at all. I respect that I don't have to. I respect that they do. And I appreciate them being open enough to allow me to share the experience and if need be, walk away from it.



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 10:08:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress
Thank you for your response.  I would also have difficulty with your specific example of face slapping, only because I would view that as abuse and not part of a scene.  Extreme humiliation, although I know there are lots of people that really get off on it, I can't watch it either.  Vomit play...no thanks for me either, I would have to walk away, quickly.  But do any of these things leave a lasting impression on you?  Even if it's only a few hours or a day?  Are they things you can just walk away from?  Or do you have to process them over some period of time?


lol well... everything with interactions of others leavs some kind of mark on me. I have always just connected with people, I'm fairly good at reading them, their reactions, their emotions, etc... so when things happen that I dont agree with ( and even things I do agree with sometimes) I tend to mull it over.
 
I've never been someone thats able to just walk away, in some cases that is a HUGE downfall of mine, and more than likely if I were to happen upon someone being abused or seriously mistreated I'd stick my nose in.... always have probably always will. Now its happened a time or few that I've been completely off base but for the most part that has even gone ok because there is just a certain recognition that people give you when they realize that you were not only looking out for them, but in some cases someone that they care deeply for. Sure it pissed a couple of Dominants off but their subs sure appreciated that someone would go out of their way to make sure all was ok.... which I guess works for me.
 
Now as far as vomit scenes... I'd be running for the doors... fast.... and other than maybe a lingering ill stomach and a couple shakes of my head as to say ewwww it wouldnt stick per se.

 



Jane2376 -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 10:09:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jane2376

I can't think of a fetish that makes me angry, as long as the person is within the rules of the party then I think it is your job to excuse yourself if it makes you uncomfortable.  Within reason of course.


Jane2376, thank you for your response.  Would you please explain the part of your response that I bolded? 


By the 'within reason' what I meant is that there are some things that are better left to private play.  Sometimes I do not think that it is your job to excuse yourself.  For example if there is only one large play room and everyone in the room is uncomfortable except the couple, even if they are within the limits of the party they should probably leave that scene for another time.  Simply out of courtesey.  Sorry reading that back it was rather vague, when I was typing the original post I just didn't want to go into a long rant on my interpretation of party ettiquette.  :)  Hope that clears it up.



yourMissTress -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 10:14:14 AM)

[quote]*snip* Permission should be obtained from the club's proprietor if you were planing on doing something "outside the norm" for the club. At a private residence it's even more important. Its an obligation of the guests to not do anything that disrespects the person or location
*snip*What I define as "too far" applies to me. That goes for observation as well as participation. I've left a few "demonstrations" that went "too far" by my personal preference that by description I was attracted. On the other hand, I've seen some things that in description sounded over the edge and had a pre-conceived "gross" that turned out to be very "erotic. Even knowing what's coming sometimes doesn't determine how it will effect you.

Keeping respect in mind allows you to share the experience while maintaining your self respect. I also always project that the participants are ultimately respecting each other, regardless of what I am observing. I may find it disgusting, and distasteful, or funny, or I just may not understand it at all. I respect that I don't have to. I respect that they do. And I appreciate them being open enough to allow me to share the experience and if need be, walk away from it. [/quote]

Mercnbeth, thank you for your response.  Please be more explicit.  What was "too far" by your personal preference?  I certainly agree that what 2 or more consenting adults agree to is their right to do, and I respect their right to do it. 
 
I'm also intrigued by the part of your quote that I bolded.  What type of play, IYO, warrants permission from the club owner and possibly notification to other attendees?  For example, I spoke quite a bit with the Managing Director of the local club and made very public announcements to anyone that might be attending the club far in advance of the nailing scene that I did some time back.



Bearlee -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 11:06:22 AM)

While Merc didn't exactly tell us what's too far for HIM...he did a wonderful job reminding us that just to leave the area is the appropriate response if what's happening 'squicks' you. 
 
I would further add...if you find something to be dangerous...find a Dungeon Manager (DM)!  It might be that a conversation took place earlier where the folks playing TOLD the DM they planned something a bit different.  It is not up to guests to interupts scenes...leave it to the DM.  A good way not to get invited back ever is to interupt someone else's play or to make nasty comments like he said.
 
Thanks, Merc!
beverly



yourMissTress -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 11:11:06 AM)

Yes Bearlee, that's a great point.  Leaving the area, quietly, is the proper response when you are bothered or squicked by an activity.


Edited to add: I just noticed I have achieved Wicked status!!! 



yourMissTress -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 11:13:29 AM)

quote:

By the 'within reason' what I meant is that there are some things that are better left to private play.  Sometimes I do not think that it is your job to excuse yourself.  For example if there is only one large play room and everyone in the room is uncomfortable except the couple, even if they are within the limits of the party they should probably leave that scene for another time.  Simply out of courtesey.  Sorry reading that back it was rather vague, when I was typing the original post I just didn't want to go into a long rant on my interpretation of party ettiquette.  :)  Hope that clears it up.


No, actually it doesn't.  This is still quite vague.  What exactly shouldn't be performed with others present?  I am asking only for your personal opinion.



Homestead -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 11:16:13 AM)

I'll give an example. I like extremes of control and humiliation.

But I would not subject others to watching me force a girl to fill her diapers, and then change her in front of them.[;)]

The fun has to stop someplace, eh?



maybemaybenot -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 11:25:17 AM)

Fisting absolutely squicks me out. To the point of vomiting or passing out if I do not walk away. Yes, the mental image stays with me after I have walked away and generally need to
" get some air" because I am in a full blown sweat and woozy. I tend to avoid events that will include this activity.

In nursing school I observed a vaginal hysterectomy. Well sort of. I was doing Ok when they opened the vagina with the retrators, a little light headed but Ok. Then the Gyn took the instruments and I watched his hand enter the vaginal area and down I went. Out cold. I remember a sort of sympathy pain / gut wrenching pain just before I passed out on the OR floor.
For whatever reason, fisting flashes me back to then and I cannot *see * it for what it is. All I see is that woman and Gyn that day. I have tried to get past it, but after almost 30 years, I simply can't.

                           mbmbn



Mercnbeth -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 11:38:14 AM)

quote:

Mercnbeth, thank you for your response.  Please be more explicit.  What was "too far" by your personal preference?  
 
MissTress,
Most recently it involved a demonstration of intense humiliation. I was looking forward to the presentation. We enjoy this activity and we both were looking forward to learning as well as participating as welcomed voyeurs. But, because it was a demo, it lacked the erotic undercurrent. It's difficult to explain. The presenters tried to explain what was occurring, and provide personal background. The demo was more clinical than erotic.

Imagine watching the Three Stooges and before they thew any pie, they explained the benefits of chocolate versus lemon meringue, why uses which one and when, why aim it where, and the comic response they hoped to generate. It wouldn't be funny, and it may turn you off to eating pies for a time. That's the feeling we got in watching the demo, so we quietly walked out. What we observed defined "too far" for us in the venue. In this case, "too far" equaled "too clinical". What we observed became too raw. Maybe in another venue, without the running narrative, it would have not been too far. That is why I wanted to interject perspective into the equation. The "too far" was in my mind.

quote:

What type of play, IYO, warrants permission from the club owner and possibly notification to other attendees?  For example, I spoke quite a bit with the Managing Director of the local club and made very public announcements to anyone that might be attending the club far in advance of the nailing scene that I did some time back.

MissTress - you've defined by example the answer I would give to your question. I'll provide another.

When we go to the Folsom Fringe we KNOW there will be a few areas of the playroom set up for exactly this activity. In the past 2 years, we've seen nailing of the genitalia of both sexes. We observed a man's scrotum pulled and pined to a board. In another area we've witnessed branding, both with a cauterizing gun and with heated metal. We KNOW it's going to be there again. We know the area will be segregated. We know the well run group that organized the event monitors those participating.

So going to this event for the third year, I know it gives you the ability to do many very intense scenes. Yet, if the spirit moved me to want to use a blow torch and pliers on beth, I'd get permission from the group first. My "rule" is if I didn't see it done I'd ask, and if I'd seen it done, but thought it still fell into my own personal "outside the norm" definition, I'd still ask.

Once I got permission, if anyone had a "problem" with it, I'd refer them to the club leaders or DM who authorized the activity. It anyone has a problem with that answer it remains their problem - not mine.



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Where lies the line of TOO FAR? (8/25/2006 11:41:18 AM)

Roman Showers (not too common, and they sure better warn Me!).
Fisting for sure.  Can't do it and don't want to watch it.  I am sure I am extra sensitive to that since I knew someone who got seriously hurt in a scene.  There is an art to it, and many do not fist with the proper care.  I am more squicked by anal fisting as it needs even more preparation and often it is not handled right. I am guilty of prejudging and walking away, in those instances.
As to leaving...Well, if I knew a place was consistent in certain things I do not enjoy seeing, I would probably just remove Myself from that particular group and/or party or future parties.  If it is a big place and I can move along, I have no real problem, unless I see a complete lack of care and inept (read dangerously careless) scening as a general rule.  I tend to look at things as a whole, rather than one or two particular things I don't care for. 
Honestly, I hate the idea of fisting, but I wanted very badly to be at the OP's nailing scene in Tennessee and I have seen the pictures!  Go figure...  *Smile* 



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