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Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 7:26:26 AM   
Padriag


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Just a random thought I had while reading another thread.  It was suggested elsewhere that housework should only take a few hours and therefore stay at home slaves who complain about it are just being lazy.  My first thought on this was... well... it depends.

Its one thing if a slave is only required to keep a 800 sq ft (about 74m sq for our metric friends) apartment clean, with no children in the house and moderate standards.

Its quite another to expect a slave to keep a 6,000 sq ft (557m sq) country estate clean, to high standards, with 3 young children running about.

Significant increase in the work load and in the later case I give it a week before said slave starts begging for a slave sister!

So here's a thought for discussion.  What's reasonable for a slave to manage alone?  How much housework, under what conditions, is fair?  What's easy?  What's unreasonable?

Food for thought

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer
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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 7:35:34 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
So here's a thought for discussion.  What's reasonable for a slave to manage alone?  How much housework, under what conditions, is fair?  What's easy?  What's unreasonable?

Food for thought

I think up to a 3 bedroom house should be able to be maintained well as long as the person isn't a total neat freak.

By making a schedule, taking one room or type of task at a time, you can just keep things cycling through and maintaining the neatness.

But there's so much more to keeping a house- laundry, dishes, maintenance, dry cleaning, getting groceries, and there really should be SOME time taken to get out and enjoy the fact that you aren't in an office like most dorks.

And then if the dom doesn't want ANY home responsibilities, there's all the cooking, decorating, cleaning up, gathering trash and more.  This will take out a lot more time they could have shared together just relaxing or going out.

So, it's a full time job, but I think if managed well, a 3 bedroom house should be fine for someone if they are in normal health.

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 8:07:15 AM   
jeffman1234


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I work weekends and do the housework and work on cars,plumbing ect. Believe me it take a lot when there is no one else to help.

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 8:10:10 AM   
mistoferin


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Hmmm.....I know this is probably not going to be popular but.....

The house has to stay clean whether or not the submissive is "stay at home" or working full time. I have done it both ways and the responsibility for taking care of the home was still mine. Granted, when I was working 60 hours a week, much less attention was paid to the little details. It wasn't as decorated....meals were of the quicker variety instead of 5 hour roasts. I did still manage though to keep things clean and meals homemade. I did it by spending my one day off cleaning and preparing meals that could be frozen and eaten throughout the week. And yes....there were kids to take care of too. I guess that I am one of those who doesn't understand when a "stay at home" can't manage to get at least the basic housework done. If you stay on top of it on a regular basis....it's not that hard to at least keep a place neat.

_____________________________

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 8:14:27 AM   
MsKatHouston


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It depends on the place and what needs to be done.  However, organization and time management are key elements to getting any job done efficiently.  I would start by making a detailed list of everything that needs to be done, room by room and then general items that need to be accomplished.  Some items can be done weekly or monthly, others every day.  With proper time management and organization, I think a fairly large house can be taken care of with one person fairly easily.

Now, factoring in children to the equation makes it more difficult because they need attention and they make a mess.

If they are school age you have a significant period of time to accomplish house duties before they get home.  I think it is also important to make children responsible for some items and to do some chores.  For example, house boys/girls of mione are never responsible for cleaning the kids' rooms.  There may be occasional issues in those rooms they would need to attend to but those are the kids' domain and their responsibility to keep clean. 

If they are not school age, scheduling is really important.  You have to set aside time for activities with them and thre needs to be a reasonable expectation and allowances for particularly bad days.  Perhaps even a mothers day out a couple times per week would be a good idea so work can be done and have a little free time. 

So reasonable expectations are in the eye of the beholder.  Personally, I don't expect miracles but if things are not being done in a manner I would expect I would examine when and how things are getting done to ensure there is an efficient process in place first.

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 8:50:20 AM   
SusanofO


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I agree with LA. And it does depend on one's standards, of course. I remember my mother used to just be so hyper about having everything "just so", and my father never understood it, and his favorite line to say to her, when she was wigging out about it was: "Relax, Patty. Lower your standards." But she had a really hard time doing that, because she was indeed a perfectionist about "keeping" the house.

So, if the Dominant or Master doesn't really have set standards as far as how some things should be maintained, and the submissive or slave does, or vice-versa, then I definitely think they should make a list of everything that may need to be done in and around the house that the submissive will be responsible for - or could be, and figure out together how long it might take, and how often different tasks might need to be done - to satisfy whatever the agreed-upon "standard" turns out to be. Which is, I guess what youre asking about. LA is right, there can be a lot more to it than some think. I can break it down to "every day or once a week" household management stuff, and periodic house managment stuff, I maintained alone, with little problem (except the yard work was done by a yard guy), for 15 years: 

House-cleaning: How many rooms are there and how dirty do they get - and how clean is it reasonable to expect them to be, on an ongoing basis? It takes me two days, of about 6 hours each, every week if possible, if not every two weeks -to clean a 13 room house (2,200 sq. ft, approx.), with 3 bathrooms, and four bedrooms, a living room, dining room, kitchen, office, den, family room, laundry room, mud-room and an enclosed front porch. I am thorough and clean things other people might not clean (like tile grout, if it's dirty. I dust curtains, I wash the hard-wood floors on hands and knees, etc). Is this always necessary? Anyone going to actually die over dirty tile grout? How fast could I clean these rooms in an "emergency" (relatives coming tommorrow) - and is this "standard" okay for sometime cleaning, or not? Everday dusting, a vacuuming for "maintenance" of that 12 hour "deep cleaning"? About one, to one and a half hours a day. 

Grocery shopping: I have a generic list of stuff I tend to buy every time I go to the store (which is every 2 weeks) Things like: Coffee, milk, bread, cereal, dogfood, toothpaste, cleaning supplies, garbage bags, rice, soup, veggies, fruit, juice and meat. I check "inventory" on that stuff, and then decide (plan, if possible) what meals I am making that will use items not already on that list and add them. If I don't want to plan meals in that level of detail, I buy at least enough vegetables, meat and rice or potatoes or pasta, and possibly dessert items, to make about two weeks worth of meals (and I've been doing it long enough that I know how much is probably needed). Planning all of this, and going to the store every two weeks, and shopping for two people (for one now, but sometimes two or more, like six, as I have friends and family over), plus two doggies, and carting it home, and putting it all away in the cupboards and fridge, takes about three to four hours every two weeks.

Laundry: Defintitely sort and wash and dry stuff in-btween doing othe things - not sure how long thnis takes, but my guess is a few (2-4) hours a week for two people, with folding and sorting.

Ironing: I do it, but not much. I tend to iron things right before I wear or use them, but do make sure they are clean. I estimate this at about two hours a week.

**So far, we are up to 30-36 hours a week for general housework. This does not include: Cooking.

Cooking: Depends on how  much time there is. I love to cook. I can spend hours a day doing it. On the other hand, I could toss dinner together for 4-6 people in about a half hour, if I had to do it, and it would be more than edible. I'd estimate this at 1-1/2 - 2 hours a day (including loading a dishwasher and setting a table). 

**So - we are now up to 38-50 hours a week.

Add to this: Bill paying, dog-walking, yard maintenance (if not taken care of by someone else, like a yard guy), and things requiring "periodic maintenance", such as: Carpet cleaning, snow shovelling (if not handled by a guy or yard guy), gardening (if this is considered necessary), maintaining things like hard-wood floors, laundering things like curtains, painting and repairing small items and applicances, painting rooms (possibly) and making sure the car(s) is/are taken in for maintenance on time. Taking pets to the vet. Taking oneself to the doctor, and making sure others in the house keep their doctor and dental and eye-care appointments. Holiday shopping, and wrapping of holiday gifts (no small task if you have a large family, and are not sure what anyone wants, and they don't want to tell you but want you to "guess"). Planning and executing any other "holiday" or special entertainment over the year (family and-or friends or business acquaintances for dinner, picnics, parties, etc.).

So anyway - that's a start on an idea of what this could possiby entail, in my opinion. And this is for a household with no children in it.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/25/2006 9:39:17 AM >


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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 9:11:49 AM   
mistoferin


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If I spend an hour a day on maintenance cleaning, my home does not require 12 hours of deep cleaning every week on top of that. Tile grout doesn't require much time if it is washed down regularly....and those new cleaners that you spray on the shower walls after showering cut down drastically on the amount of time needed. Heck, they even have one that you can hang in the shower now and press a button that sprays it down for you. Also, laundry may take 4 hours a week....actually when my kids were at home I spent a lot more than that on laundry....but you don't have to devote your attention to it more than about once an hour to switch loads and fold. You can get alot of other things done while you are doing laundry. I don't think that I have ever spent 2 hours a week ironing. I keep ironing in mind while shopping for clothing. Also, a few moments in the dryer or a few sprays of wrinkle reducer work wonders for most casual clothes.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 9:21:10 AM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Just a random thought I had while reading another thread.  It was suggested elsewhere that housework should only take a few hours and therefore stay at home slaves who complain about it are just being lazy.  My first thought on this was... well... it depends.

Its one thing if a slave is only required to keep a 800 sq ft (about 74m sq for our metric friends) apartment clean, with no children in the house and moderate standards.

Its quite another to expect a slave to keep a 6,000 sq ft (557m sq) country estate clean, to high standards, with 3 young children running about.

Significant increase in the work load and in the later case I give it a week before said slave starts begging for a slave sister!

So here's a thought for discussion.  What's reasonable for a slave to manage alone?  How much housework, under what conditions, is fair?  What's easy?  What's unreasonable?

Food for thought


Padriag:

I think the fact that the person is a slave is irrelevent, if I am understanding your question correctly.  I am understanding that you would like to know how much time it takes or how difficult it is to maintain a home.  I dont know what you mean by "fair".  Do you mean how much should one given person be expected to do without help from the other party in the relationship?

If you wouldnt mind clarifying that, Id like to know what you mean before I answer.

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 10:01:45 AM   
pissdoll


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Padriag,

You bring the 6,000 sq ft country estate, and i will be a little cleaning fool!!!

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 10:02:58 AM   
pissdoll


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oh wait, do i have to take the 3 kids with the house??

never mind 

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 10:29:54 AM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Padriag:

I think the fact that the person is a slave is irrelevent, if I am understanding your question correctly.  I am understanding that you would like to know how much time it takes or how difficult it is to maintain a home.  I dont know what you mean by "fair".  Do you mean how much should one given person be expected to do without help from the other party in the relationship?

If you wouldnt mind clarifying that, Id like to know what you mean before I answer.

I actually already have an idea of what I think is reasonable... but given some recent discussions I thought this would be a good topic for discussion.  Mainly because many dom's don't seem to take into consideration things like how much house there is too clean (obviously a large, 6 bedroom estate is going to take more work than a small 2 bedroom apartment), or the decor, or the standards of cleanliness (are we living in a museum or are we living in a dump... how much cleaning does the dom expect?), and whether or not there are little mess makers running about the house.  All these things, and I can speak from experience having lived on my own as a bachelor long enough and also having my neice and nephew visit, make a difference in how much time is needed for cleaning and general housework.

So the point of my question is really just to get people thinking and discussing.  Thus, the real question is, what do you think? 

BTW, what makes it relevant to a slave or submissive is that its a dom setting an expectation.  Since I believe setting expections that are unrealistic are a bad idea (sets the slave up for failure, which is not good), I thought I'd stirr up some thought on what is realistic.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 10:30:54 AM   
Padriag


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pissdoll

oh wait, do i have to take the 3 kids with the house??

never mind 

LOL... you know I don't have any kids.  Other than that, be careful what you wish for

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 10:53:52 AM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Padriag:

I think the fact that the person is a slave is irrelevent, if I am understanding your question correctly.  I am understanding that you would like to know how much time it takes or how difficult it is to maintain a home.  I dont know what you mean by "fair".  Do you mean how much should one given person be expected to do without help from the other party in the relationship?

If you wouldnt mind clarifying that, Id like to know what you mean before I answer.

I actually already have an idea of what I think is reasonable... but given some recent discussions I thought this would be a good topic for discussion.  Mainly because many dom's don't seem to take into consideration things like how much house there is too clean (obviously a large, 6 bedroom estate is going to take more work than a small 2 bedroom apartment), or the decor, or the standards of cleanliness (are we living in a museum or are we living in a dump... how much cleaning does the dom expect?), and whether or not there are little mess makers running about the house.  All these things, and I can speak from experience having lived on my own as a bachelor long enough and also having my neice and nephew visit, make a difference in how much time is needed for cleaning and general housework.

So the point of my question is really just to get people thinking and discussing.  Thus, the real question is, what do you think? 

BTW, what makes it relevant to a slave or submissive is that its a dom setting an expectation.  Since I believe setting expections that are unrealistic are a bad idea (sets the slave up for failure, which is not good), I thought I'd stirr up some thought on what is realistic.


Ok...thank you for explaining.   I would say it depends on what the situation is.  If the dom is working, and the slave is a stay-at-home, then its my opinion that the slave's part on the team is to keep the house clean...by herself.  Why should one party work all day then have to come home and vaccuum? 

Of course the size of the home makes some difference but not as much as you  may think.  Every room in every house does not need daily cleaning.  Most rooms can be thoroughly cleaned inside of an hour.  So even if she spent one hour per day cleaning one room and then cleaned the next room the next day and so on like a cycle, it shouldnt be too difficult.  Bathrooms, as far as Im concerned need to be scrubbed down weekly.  In between,  a quick wipe up will tide it over until its 'bathroom day'.  Kitchens need continuous cleaning because they are used several times a day.  But you dont need to wash the floor or scrub the stove daily,  but sweeping and dishes etc need constant attention.  Kids of course add to this work load, but if you have a system and some control, its not rocket science to run and keep clean a smooth household.  Though some do have a hard time of it simply because its not a 'strength' for them.  When I was married, I worked until I had a child, then my ex went to work and I ran the house and raised our child.  His part was bringing in the bacon, my part was keeping the house and raising the child. It was a team effort, I would imagine the same would apply for master/slave.  I cooked, cleaned, did laundry, took care of my child and served my ex dinner when he walked through the door.  I also did all the bookkeeping and bill paying, simply because I was better suited to it and because he was working 40 hours a week and why should he have to come home and do stuff that I had the time to do?  Its a matter of teamwork and cooperation, not a matter of whats 'fair'.  But then thats just how I think.  Now that Im a single parent, I take care of the house, the child, the yardwork AND i earn the friggin money.  lol.  Frankly its not nearly as hard as most females would have you all believe. 

If I were a working master with a stay at home slave, I would expect to come home to find an immaculate house every single day, a meal on the table, clean laundry, all the errands accomplished, all the bills paid, the banking done, the groceries in the fridge and I would only accept it not being done if my slave was physically ill.  If on the other hand, she also works, then I think they both need to chip in on the weekends and get the cleaning and errands done.  I mean, what good is a worn out slave to anyone???

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 11:00:01 AM   
popeye1250


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Susan, damn! I'm impressed.
You're incredably organized!
Can I hire you for a few weeks?

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 4:46:59 PM   
PrincessGirlie


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There are a lot of sites on the net to help one with housework and making a schedule to help you keep up with it all.  I personally LOVE hints from Heloise and have the first book that was every published....OMG the things housewives USED to have to do on a daily basis make me very happy to be living in 2006.  We have more convieniences now than even our mothers had.  There is no reason we can not keep on top of the chores todays that our mothers did even 20 years ago.  We have more distractions, I am sure....you know there is the internet calling to us as we should be making the beds....~wink~.

Girlie

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 5:15:00 PM   
darkinshadows


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quote:

If I spend an hour a day on maintenance cleaning, my home does not require 12 hours of deep cleaning every week on top of that. Tile grout doesn't require much time if it is washed down regularly....and those new cleaners that you spray on the shower walls after showering cut down drastically on the amount of time needed. Heck, they even have one that you can hang in the shower now and press a button that sprays it down for you. Also, laundry may take 4 hours a week....actually when my kids were at home I spent a lot more than that on laundry....but you don't have to devote your attention to it more than about once an hour to switch loads and fold. You can get alot of other things done while you are doing laundry. I don't think that I have ever spent 2 hours a week ironing. I keep ironing in mind while shopping for clothing. Also, a few moments in the dryer or a few sprays of wrinkle reducer work wonders for most casual clothes.

Thing is though erin, that takes the whole fun out of housework - and you are right, it does make it easier, but it also makes it less fulfilling.
 
I could use decreasers.  And those shower sprays.  I could use all the chemicals and use a dryer.  But that is just extra cost and incredible waste.  I however, choose not to because I do not want it easy.  I want to work hard and know its my work alone, driven by the love I have, that gets the job done.  I do not wish to pollute the air with all these extra chemicals and agents.  I enjoy washing by hand because I do it with love.  It isnt about making it easier for me, its about commiting the time and energy into service.  I do not knock those that work outside of their home and come home and use all these items.  But to me its cheating.
 
Padriag
I have animals - they need care and attention.  I have children - ditto.  I shop so he wouldnt have to waste his precious time.  I cook, because I want to make him happy and please him.  Every meal is a blessing and my way of honouring his hard work.  Its about being there for him when he comes home.  Its about him wanting to entertain, and trusting me to arrange it, so he can come home, have his bath which I have run with his wine on the side... ready, then come down, relaxed, knowing that the guests will arrive and know I am doing all this in honour of him.  It isnt about the size of the property, or what is done.  Its how it is done and how the time is utilised.  What about the lunch to be made and packed?  The rising to make his coffee in the morning?  Not forgetting the sexual desires to be addressed.
 
Cleaning a house is only half of it.  I paint as well and my work is a tribute to him.  I do not need anyone else to be the 'boss' of me - He is Master, Lover and Friend.  I still have life.  I still entertain within his home with friends.  Being at home doesnt change me.
 
Its late, and I am tired and I do not know if this made much sense.
 
Peace and Rapture


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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 8:37:56 PM   
ownedgirlie


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I hear ya Susan.  I do that while working full time.  For a long time I did that while working full time, with a husband who didn't.  It left me quite tired, with little energy for much else.

If given the opportunity to NOT go to work every day, you can bet the house would be spotless and I'd be one happy girl.

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 8:44:47 PM   
crybaby


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I believe I read somewhere that a stay at home mom is valued at 150K...and I don't think it's because keeping a house and kids is an easy task at all.  My mother stayed home and raised 11 and I never appreciated her more than when I moved into my Mistress' house and became her "house manager."  Though I have higher expectations of myself when it comes to cleaning the house, hers are very high for maintaining the organization.  At 23, I do 95% of all the cleaning, laundry, shopping and cooking, while maintaining a 4.0 full time and it is everything but as easy as some are making it sound.

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 9:12:40 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows
Thing is though erin, that takes the whole fun out of housework - and you are right, it does make it easier, but it also makes it less fulfilling.
 
Well you're right dark, it may be less fulfilling. There have been times though that I have had to work as many as 80 hours a week outside of the home. When you are putting in those kinds of hours and the priority is still to have a clean home....all of the shortcuts are a blessing. When minutes are a precious commodity and you can use those minutes to make little differences or devote yourself elsewhere....believe me, shortcuts aren't so bad. Did I like having to work those kinds of hours and make sacrifices in how I did things? Well heck no. But I did manage to still make sure it all got done. It drives me crazy to hear someone who does not work outside the home use not having enough time as an excuse for living in a pig sty. It just doesn't wash with me. I loved being a "stay at home" and would do it again in a minute. I loved being able to take my time and totally devote myself to making my home beautiful and my family satisfied and happy. I am not saying there is a thing in the world wrong with staying at home...I think it's awesome. But the question was about stay at home slaves and what amount of housework is reasonable to expect them to be able to handle alone. In my opinion, if a slave has no physical limitations and no job outside of the home....a clean house is a perfectly reasonable expectation.
 
To the other comment made on the thread about housewives being valued at 150K.....there is a whole world of women out there who are managing to be great mothers and housewives and also have the responsibility of holding down a full time job outside the home. It really is possible to do a good job at both.


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Expectations of stay at home slaves - 8/25/2006 11:16:38 PM   
Rayne58


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*Fast reply*

I have a total dislike of cleaning. So I pay someone to come in for a couple of hours once a week to do the heavy stuff like bathroom, floors and windows. Master doesn't mind, as long as the place is clean it doesn't matter to Him who does it It frees me up to take care of Him which is a full time job in itself. I am cook, laundress, nurse, bill payer and accountant, grocery buyer and personal assistant (secretary/spell checker/appointment reminder).

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